Advice for loading 7x57 & 6.5x55

[shootist~]

Also, what load data is that? Vihtivouri list the 156 grain lapua mega out of a 25.5 inch barrel max (62,000psi) at just a hair over 2,500fps. Just curious, I've never seen a creedmoor data that will push so heavy a bullet from such a short barrel.

Just to be clear we are talking about the 6.5 Creedmoor (not the 6.5 Swede).

I used QuickLoad and ran the numbers for RL-17 for the 155 gr Lapua Mega. I also load the CM with 140s A-Frames using RL-17 so I had a bit of a baseline to judge by. There is very little data out there for heavy bullets in the Creedmoor - especially using RL17, but I did find some. (Though not for my specific components.)

Also of note is the Tikka T3X has a fairly long throat so I was able to seat the bullet to 2.822" (still .036" off the lands), which according to QuickLoad reduced the pressure a notable amount. This is still below magazine length, btw, in 6.5CM/7mm-08 specific magazines.

Quickload default data was also adjusted (reduced) for the actual water volume of a fired Nosler case. Prior to doing this I was getting higher Actual velocity Vs QL Projected. Very close to QL projected V after.

It appears to be safe in MY Rifle, at least in cool weather, (and well under max pressure per QL), but not a recommendation by any means:

My 6.5 Creedmoor load for the 155 Mega is 41.0 Grains of RL-17, F210 Primers, Nosler or Norma Brass. COL 2.822", Ogive 2.461 (.036" off the lands).
24" factory Tikka T3X Lite barrel.

I happened to be using new brass for the loads I ran over the Lab Radar. I ran 9, dropped one outlier and the remaining 8 averaged 2,637 fps at 66*F with an SD of 6.0. (9 of 9 averaged 2,632 fps, SD 15.8). Still need to see how they do in hot weather since RL-17 can be temp sensitive.

Edit: I would consider the 155 gr Mega load to be a 200 Yard +/- load due to the low BC.

 

[ChrisG]

Just to be clear we are talking about the 6.5 Creedmoor (not the 6.5 Swede).

I used QuickLoad and ran the numbers for RL-17 for the 155 gr Lapua Mega. I also load the CM with 140s A-Frames using RL-17 so I had a bit of a baseline to judge by. There is very little data out there for heavy bullets in the Creedmoor - especially using RL17, but I did find some. (Though not for my specific components.)

Also of note is the Tikka T3X has a fairly long throat so I was able to seat the bullet to 2.822" (still .036" off the lands), which according to QuickLoad reduced the pressure a notable amount. This is still below magazine length, btw, in 6.5CM/7mm-08 specific magazines.

Quickload default data was also adjusted (reduced) for the actual water volume of a fired Nosler case. Prior to doing this I was getting higher Actual velocity Vs QL Projected. Very close to QL projected V after.

It appears to be safe in MY Rifle, at least in cool weather, (and well under max pressure per QL), but not a recommendation by any means:

My 6.5 Creedmoor load for the 155 Mega is 41.0 Grains of RL-17, F210 Primers, Nosler or Norma Brass. COL 2.822", Ogive 2.461 (.036" off the lands).
24" factory Tikka T3X Lite barrel.

I happened to be using new brass for the loads I ran over the Lab Radar. I ran 9, dropped one outlier and the remaining 8 averaged 2,637 fps at 66*F with an SD of 6.0. (9 of 9 averaged 2,632 fps, SD 15.8). Still need to see how they do in hot weather since RL-17 can be temp sensitive.

Ok. I was just curious where you got the loads. I hadnt seen the data tht would push a heavy bullet that fast even from a Creedmoor.

The problem with the swede is that data is all over the place, but it should be able to push identical bullets to the same speed as the creedmoor at lower pressure. I may have to invest in Quickload one of these days.

 

[sgt_zim]

I was just going to ask the same thing! You beat me to it!

It confuses me how these blowhards that shoot 6.5 CM spout BS about how they can hit a deers eye at 1200 yds, and drop it with one shot. These nimrods obviously don't follow what energy there bullet have at said distances, and go by standards like 1200 ft-lbs on target for deer, 1500 ft-lbs for elk. There's a reason you follow such guidelines. BECAUSE THEY WORK!
With that being mentioned, you can hunt deer out to 400 yds, maybe, and I mean maybe, out to 450 yds. While hunting elk, expect 300 - 350 yds max. Anyone shooting such a magnificent animal is doing nothing but injuring them, and leaving them to die a long, miserable death.
The closer you are, the better terminal performance you get.
I have to admit, there's nothing that a 6.5 CM has done that a 6.5x55 already hasn't, if not a little better, especially with heavier bullets.
From what I understand now, if one hand loads a 6.5x55 up to 55k psi, it outshines a Creedmoor by quite a bit.


Hawk

While true, not that big of a deal. The difference in ballistic arc and energy on a bullet traveling 2500 fps vs 2600+ fps is fairly trivial, certainly not enough that a deer or pig or elk would know the difference.

That's why when I found my node for the woodleigh 160 in my 6.5x55 T3X, I just quit testing. I consider my Tikka to be something of a brush gun, just like my 45-70, LOL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I wholeheartedly agree. The funny thing is, one of the other guys in camp heard me tell the guide I had a 6.5x55 as backup and he perked up with "Is that like a 6.5 creedmoor?!" to which I replied "No, the creedmoor only shares the Swede's bore size. They are two very different cartridges". What I should have said was "...they are two very different mentalities".

I've never met a hunter who shot the 6.5 Swede that I didnt like. I have met a lot of guys shooting a 6.5CM that just rubbed me the wrong way.

@ChrisG
I hear you.
Up st our local range the manbun crowd talk of taking animals out to 500 yards and more with the 6.5 manbun because of the superb accuracy. They know Jack shit and diddly squat about terminal balistics and energy requirements for game at those ranges but who care accuracy kills.
The 6.5x55 guys talk about HUNTING at realistic ranges to a max of 300 yards and usually less using bullets like Woodleigh 140s, Hornaday SSTs, noslers and others.
A lot of them love the SST as it works well on both fallow and red deer as well as pigs.
The manbun crowd get really pissed when you talk about HUNTING at 200 to 300 yards as that is not the manbuns area. It is a 500 yard plus game cartridge to them. I just walk off when they start with the bullshit.
Bob.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The cartridge itself isnt the issue. I am sure it kills just like every other 6.5 has for the past 130 years. It is the ridiculous "brand-new-amazing-super-long-range-sniper-kills-everything-with-one-shot-at-23,856-yards" ridiculousness that is attributed to it by so much misinformation and propoganda.

I had one guy at the range (I was shooting a .375 Ruger at the time) tell me that he bet his 6.5 creedmoor hits harder at 500 yards than my "big magnum" would because 6.5 creedmoor bullets lose "almost no speed" when traveling through the air. All while insinuating a .375s bullets have the aerodynamics of a rotten morel. I simply told him "I don't shoot animals at 500 yards." Then went back to shooting. The 6.5CM bandwagon is under the impression that 6.5mm bullets were invented with the creedmoor. That's just ignorance I suppose, but I stand by what I said. I've never met a guy who hunts with/shoots a 6.5x55 that I didn't get along with.

And I was mostly agreeing with the latter half of @sgt_zim 's quote:

I think that holds true, on average, regarding their ethics and the type of shooting that they tend to do.

Anyway, I don't want to deviate too far from where the original OP was going. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

@ChrisG
I've had 6.5 manbun shooters tell me of shooting goats out to 700 yards with the manbun. That ain't hunting. When asked how may shots before the animal fell over that's different. Oh it only took 3.
I'm not saying it can't be done but I question their ethics.
I have friends that use a 6.5x55 that will stalk in as close as possible to make clean kills. These gent c a n shoot at long range on paper BUT will not HUNT a realistic ranges. They prefer hunting not sniping.
Bob

 

[shootist~]

Strange. The guys at my range that Actually Use the various 6.5s, 6x47s, etc., for the 1,000 yd+ matches tend to hunt with things like 280AI, 7mmMag, 308s, 300WM and such.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Strange. The guys at my range that Actually Use the various 6.5s, 6x47s, etc., for the 1,000 yd+ matches tend to hunt with things like 280AI, 7mmMag, 308s, 300WM and such.

@shootist~
People at my range are either benchrest boys or supposed hunters. The 6.5 manbun crowd tend to be the younger shooters that have e been duped by all the advertising bullshit about the cartridge and not a lot of field experience. Some of them I have listened to have been talking about sambar hunting and listen to them gives me a good laugh. They say you need a minimum of 338 win mag for them and others were saying that they would be happier with a 375. When asked how many they have shot the answer is zero.
When told the manbun will d o it with the RIGHT BULLET at up to 200 yards they have trouble believing it but you have to remind them the 270 is minimum.
They seem not to be able to comprehend using the manbun at such close ranges as that's not what it was designed to do.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

Strange. The guys at my range that Actually Use the various 6.5s, 6x47s, etc., for the 1,000 yd+ matches tend to hunt with things like 280AI, 7mmMag, 308s, 300WM and such.

at least some people have a brain.

 

[bruce moulds]

this whole manbun issue is the result of a major snowball problem.
however it started from immoral and/or ignorant marketing people and flowed through into a modern trend of being too lazy to really drill down into fact by purchasers.
it has become self feeding.
unless you have done a lot of long range target shooting, you will never understand the probability of making long shots in wind and mirage.
long range target bullets are rarely suited to terminal ballistics.
and long range terminal ballistics cannot be translated from short range ones.
and so on and so on.
the cartridge was designed as a sling shooters 1000 yd target round, and it excells at this, but that does not carry through to hunting.
it is in fact a 250 yd point blank round with power that suits that for smaller game to be taken in a humane manner.
if you are really chasing b.c., 7mm bullets and 30 cal will give you more, and they deliver more from larger diameter and more weight,
bruce.

 

[7x57Joe]

hawkeyesatx, With that 10" twist the 156 Norma or 154 Hornady may be about the heaviest that will stabilize but, that weight is fine for North American game excluding the big bears. They would probably work on them also but, maybe not fast enough. I know for a fact that 150 grain Nosler Partitions will destroy lungs and exit elk everytime that I've shot them.

 

[ChrisG]

hawkeyesatx, With that 10" twist the 156 Norma or 154 Hornady may be about the heaviest that will stabilize but, that weight is fine for North American game excluding the big bears. They would probably work on them also but, maybe not fast enough. I know for a fact that 150 grain Nosler Partitions will destroy lungs and exit elk everytime that I've shot them.

View attachment 403707

Nice cow! Like I said, I have no doubt a 6.5x55 will kill an elk. My guide wasn't so confident in some guy from the Adirondacks out west hunting elk with his deer rifle. I can't say I can fault him for that, so my swede stayed in camp.

However, If I was forced to pick one of my rifles to hunt all of North America and I wasn't allowed any others, I would give serious credence to my 6.5 swede. The next choice would be my .358. But I don't doubt that the 6.5 would get it done, even on the big bears with a carefully patient and steady shot from reasonable range with an appropriate bullet. I've never had an issue with my swede underpenetrating. And a bullet that penetrates straight is a bullet that kills.

 

[ChrisG]

@ChrisG
I've had 6.5 manbun shooters tell me of shooting goats out to 700 yards with the manbun. That ain't hunting. When asked how may shots before the animal fell over that's different. Oh it only took 3.
I'm not saying it can't be done but I question their ethics.
I have friends that use a 6.5x55 that will stalk in as close as possible to make clean kills. These gent c a n shoot at long range on paper BUT will not HUNT a realistic ranges. They prefer hunting not sniping.
Bob

I mean there is a lot of hate for the 6.5CM. But like everyone is saying it is related to the kinds of people who are as ignorant as they are fanboyish to the creedmoor. I honestly cant find fault with the cartridge. It does what six fives have done for over a century, kill smaller game exceedingly well and far more effectively than their small bore would predict they should. Use it at ethical hunting distances and HUNT with it, dont just shoot with it. Just dont tout it as the ultimate rifle cartridge then post a picture of you "hunting" with your mighty 6.5.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

hawkeyesatx, With that 10" twist the 156 Norma or 154 Hornady may be about the heaviest that will stabilize but, that weight is fine for North American game excluding the big bears. They would probably work on them also but, maybe not fast enough. I know for a fact that 150 grain Nosler Partitions will destroy lungs and exit elk everytime that I've shot them.

View attachment 403707

7x57 Joe
On something that size my 25 with a 100 grain TTSX started out at 3,600+ fps will do me nicely.
Bob

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi,

A 1:10" twist is OK for stabilize a spitzer 175 grs bullet. Perhaps not a VLD or extremely long one, but a Hornady Spire Point and a Nosler Partition will be.
Anyway, a good 154/160 grs at 2700/2750 p/s would be, to me, a very nice all around 7x57 bullet.

Good luck!

CF

 

[MS 9x56]

That’s a really good article.
Unfortunately, my M38 is still in it’s military configuration.
I’m not able to load it that hot, as I could with Winchester M70 7x57.
But, the old tried and true loads aren’t any slouch. They work quite well, even for such an old girl like mine.


Hawk

I love hunting and shooting those 100+ year old rifles. I just load with a mid level load out of most any loading manual and don’t try to hot rod them. Despite what the gun rags say They kill game just as dead as they did 100 years ago with just as much ease. I have a 1905 MS carbine and a Remington model 14 in 30 rem that I shoot and hunt with regularly. You don’t need 3000+ fps to kill game. Just a good aim and steady hand.

 

[Frederik]

This is just a stupid debate the manbun or Creed was designed to use a 140gr bullet with extra length to push the G1.

The Swede was designed with 156gr bullets for military and they kill moose in Scandinavia and have been doing it for over 100 years.

To summarize one is designed to be a shooter the other a hunter.

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I was mistaken on a prior post about my Winchester M70 having a 1 in 10 inch barrel twist. The correct barrel twist is 1 in 8.25 inches.
My 6,5x55 has a 1 in 7.6 inch twist.
So both will handle heavy bullets.



Hawk

 

[7x57Joe]

7x57 Joe
On something that size my 25 with a 100 grain TTSX started out at 3,600+ fps will do me nicely.
Bob

No doubt Bob, it will! I just don't like cleaning rifles with bores smaller than .284".

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I love hunting and shooting those 100+ year old rifles. I just load with a mid level load out of most any loading manual and don’t try to hot rod them. Despite what the gun rags say They kill game just as dead as they did 100 years ago with just as much ease. I have a 1905 MS carbine and a Remington model 14 in 30 rem that I shoot and hunt with regularly. You don’t need 3000+ fps to kill game. Just a good aim and steady hand.

I agree with you there!
I do the same thing. I like to hunt with early 20th century, if not late 19th century kinda firearms, myself.
I even shoot black powder rifles and use them for hunting as well
My M38 fits my hunting needs, no doubt. I can easily hunt something within 200 - 250 yds, which I have to admit, almost all hunting situations fall within here in the United States.
I know I have plenty of gun to get what I hunt for.
Not to mention the biggest and most important point, always hit your big game in the vital area ( heart and lungs ). You can't go wrong there!


Hawk

 

[WAB]

I was mistaken on a prior post about my Winchester M70 having a 1 in 10 inch barrel twist. The correct barrel twist is 1 in 8.25 inches.
My 6,5x55 has a 1 in 7.6 inch twist.
So both will handle heavy bullets.



Hawk

That is the same rifle I have. It likes 160 and 175 gr bullets. It does not like 145s but the Barnes likely overcomes that with greater length to weight ratio.