.404 Jeffery - To Scope or Not to Scope?

[andries 318 wr]

Not an expert at all. But don't think anyone has asked where you plan for the hunt to take place.
If it is the swamps of Mazombué or an Eastern Cape Buffalo hunt then I would definitely prefer a scope.
Even in a think bush environment I personally think one will give up more shots using open sight then using a scope.

A low power scope would be my vote.

 

[DmacD]

Small openings and shadows... you can also say "No" to the shot and wait for a better one ....
It was late in the afternoon and we had been tracking four Buffalo and one in particular with a very large round front right hoof since lunch, hours later found me sitting on my butt in the cooling dark sands under a Mopani canopy next to my PH and Tracker. Elbows on knees supporting binos we were quietly discussing the Buff and the shot 40 yards away hard in some lantern brush .... I had in my lap my 505 with express sights and honestly I would not have been confident taking that shot with either a Red Dot or Scope in those long shadows and brush and opted to pass. Minutes later the Buff started to move we stood up and waited, slowly he walked into a clearing perhaps 30 yards away turned and looked at us for the first time that day. Offering a slight quartering away frontal shot, the bullet entered just in front of his left shoulder and exited behind his ribs on the off side.. He went maybe 20 yards slowed and called it quits.

View attachment 537405

You paint a good picture zephyr, it gets my hunting juices flowing! Yes, this is exactly the kind of scenario that I can see would test our equipment choices.

 

[DmacD]

Not an expert at all. But don't think anyone has asked where you plan for the hunt to take place.
If it is the swamps of Mazombué or an Eastern Cape Buffalo hunt then I would definitely prefer a scope.
Even in a think bush environment I personally think one will give up more shots using open sight then using a scope.

A low power scope would be my vote.

I have my eye on South Africa, looking at a 2025 date, but nothing carved in stone as of yet. Of course, I would consult any prospective PH regarding what to expect in regards to the terrain and shooting conditions.

 

[Rare Breed]

That was my thought too, irons, red dot, and low power variable. Redundancy = options I would think.

Don’t think you can beat having three options

 

[DWB]

Seeing that my photos would not load, let me try again
All my 404.

Yes I did shoot the two on the left right after each other!!!! and we did get 3 in one go! Stalked them from the bushes into the open!

And there's nothing like shooting 3 buffs in one trip !!!

 

[ARod]

Hello all,
I am in need of some advice regarding my optics options for a BRNO 602 chambered in .404 Jeffery that I have acquired. I am preparing to hunt for Cape Buffalo, most likely in 2025, and would like to hear what those with experience have to say. I have no dangerous game experience, and this is the largest caliber I own, having previously shot a little with a .375 H&H, and a lot with a 9.3x62. Both are topped with variable scopes.

First Option - The rifle came with an AHR quick release mount that will hold a Trijicon SRO (or RMR), so I purchased one to fit. Slick setup, works well. Does anyone run with a similar setup exclusively on their own dangerous game rifle?

Second Option - I have a Meopta 6 power fixed scope that I really like, clear glass, rugged, oodles of magnification for the .404. I would mount this in QD mounts, in conjunction with the SRO. The thinking being that I could perhaps stretch the legs of the .404 and go after a plains game animal or two once the Buffalo hunt was over.

Third Option - I have also looked into the purchase of a quality 1-4, or 1-6 scope, something illuminated with suitable eye relief. I am looking at a used Zeiss Victory HT 1-4, and a used Leupold VX6 HD 1-6 (available funds will dictate, blue collar budget). This could be the dedicated optic, or also in conjunction with my SRO.

What works for you guys that have hunted the Dangerous ones with a .404 Jeffery?

You can’t go wrong with a 1x6 Leupold VX6 with fire dot. It turns your 404 Jeffery into a long range shooter and close bush gun.

I used my 450 Rigby on a croc at 77 yards, Impala at 56 yards and Elephant at 15 yards. All well placed 1st shots because I had a bit of magnification!

 

[Nevada Mike]

I took my GM M98 404 Jeffery to Tanzania last year for a buffalo hunt. I took two scopes - a Leupold VX6HD 1-6X with Red Dot and a Leupold VXIII 1.5 - 5X in custom QD mounts. I hunted with the VXIII 1.5-5X even though the optics are a bit better on the VX6. I preferred the VX with one inch tube over the VX6 with 30mm tube. The VXIII is lighter and fits me and the rifle better.

I killed two bulls at 60 to 90 yards and an eland at over 200 yards with 400 grain SAFs at 2250 fps MV. For all other game I used my light rifle.

 

[Safari Dave]

Scope it with a low power variable on QD mounts and rings.



It will do it all!

 

[cmk]

@Nevada Mike - that is one seriously beautiful rifle. And having it leaning against that handsome eland puts neither of them to shame.

 

[Nevada Mike]

@Nevada Mike - that is one seriously beautiful rifle. And having it leaning against that handsome eland puts neither of them to shame.

Thank you for the compliment, but Reto Beuhler is the one who built it. The eland was a thrill, for sure.

 

[cmk]

Thank you for the compliment, but Reto Beuhler is the one who built it. The eland was a thrill, for sure.

Well, then you shall have the credit for choosing a good gun smith.

As for the original question, I agree with the majority - low power scope in QD mounts, with irons and/or a red dot as fall back plans.

I have a Swarovski 1.5-6x42 on mine, which makes it good enough for as far out as I'd be prepared to shoot an animal. It has an illuminated + in the center, which I guess could be useful in some situations, e.g. when something dark is standing in the shadows. I also have an Aimpoint H2 in QD mounts, which attaches to the front base. The irons are mostly for the good looks, as my eyes are not really capable of using them anymore.

No DG experience though, unless roe deer are considered dangerous. Come to think of it, one of them was getting danger close (10 m) and started looking at me in a 'funny' way. An A-Frame at 2200 made sure that everybody got to go home that day in one piece.

 

[DmacD]

Well, then you shall have the credit for choosing a good gun smith.

As for the original question, I agree with the majority - low power scope in QD mounts, with irons and/or a red dot as fall back plans.

I have a Swarovski 1.5-6x42 on mine, which makes it good enough for as far out as I'd be prepared to shoot an animal. It has an illuminated + in the center, which I guess could be useful in some situations, e.g. when something dark is standing in the shadows. I also have an Aimpoint H2 in QD mounts, which attaches to the front base. The irons are mostly for the good looks, as my eyes are not really capable of using them anymore.

No DG experience though, unless roe deer are considered dangerous. Come to think of it, one of them was getting danger close (10 m) and started looking at me in a 'funny' way. An A-Frame at 2200 made sure that everybody got to go home that day in one piece.

My rifle, a BRNO, sports the pop-up peep sight, but even though it is a good system, I don't believe that I could use it effectively against a black hide in a low light situation. If I do decide to add a low powered variable, it will definitively have an illuminated red dot!

 

[bowjijohn]

On my R8 404 J I have iron sights, RD 20 red dot and a swaro z8i 1 - 8 x 24

I have yet to use the swaro

Or indeed any of them outside the shooting range and competition as this 404 set up is new to me (6 months)

I wouldn’t be comfortable with <3” eye relief as I’d be distracted by the potential for a clout from the scope.

Fear of injury would change the way I held the rifle

I think, in your situation, - if I might be presumptuous - I’d be inclined to dig deep and find a 1 - 6 swaro extended eye relief scope

J

 

[Ontario Hunter]

On my R8 404 J I have iron sights, RD 20 red dot and a swaro z8i 1 - 8 x 24

I have yet to use the swaro

Or indeed any of them outside the shooting range and competition as this 404 set up is new to me (6 months)

I wouldn’t be comfortable with <3” eye relief as I’d be distracted by the potential for a clout from the scope.

Fear of injury would change the way I held the rifle

I think, in your situation, - if I might be presumptuous - I’d be inclined to dig deep and find a 1 - 6 swaro extended eye relief scope

J

Still waiting on the barrel to be finished. I'm fitting the new bottom metal as I write this. Once it's fitted into the stock I have to pull it, put it in a jig, and begin opening up the box by hand to accept 404 Jeff (416 Rem Mag bottom metal for Mauser 98 was as close as I could get). Won't take much. Once the new barrel is on and bolt face opened, I can start to work on feeding ramp. Must order the magnum follower today. Forgot that.

So this gun is a ways from being ready to shoot. When it is ready, I will ONLY shoot it off sticks. Shooting it from the bench would be hairy ... with scope on anyway. I know that. But I won't be shooting from a bench at buffalo.

Apparently, if I measured it correctly (a big "if"), 3" eye relief is all I've ever shot and I don't recall ever being bloused with the scope. Not once in almost sixty years shooting.

 

[DmacD]

On my R8 404 J I have iron sights, RD 20 red dot and a swaro z8i 1 - 8 x 24

I have yet to use the swaro

Or indeed any of them outside the shooting range and competition as this 404 set up is new to me (6 months)

I wouldn’t be comfortable with <3” eye relief as I’d be distracted by the potential for a clout from the scope.

Fear of injury would change the way I held the rifle

I think, in your situation, - if I might be presumptuous - I’d be inclined to dig deep and find a 1 - 6 swaro extended eye relief scope

J

Yes, eye relief is going to be a consideration. Thanks!

 

[Nevada Mike]

Eye relief can be a problem, but can sometimes be overcome with a slightly longer LOP.

If your rifle weighs 9-3/4 or 10 lbs. recoil is not much more than a .375 H&H. You don't need to be driving the bullet to max speeds (2400 fps or more). I played with 404J loads quite a bit (up to 2400+ fps) and found that a 400 gr. SAF at 2250 was more than enough for 2 buffalo bulls at normal shooting distances for DG. This load was very accurate and fully penetrated buffalo with massive damage. Two bulls down and dead with three shots. I used the same combo on a bull eland at over 200 yards.

I shot from my bench during load development - a lot - but once I found my load, I went to the sticks for practice. Fired about 250 rounds prior to my hunt and became accustomed to the recoil and learned to handle it. My rifle weighs 10 lbs 3 oz. ready to hunt.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Seeing that my photos would not load, let me try again
All my 404.

View attachment 537530

Yes I did shoot the two on the left right after each other!!!! and we did get 3 in one go! Stalked them from the bushes into the open!

View attachment 537531

And there's nothing like shooting 3 buffs in one trip !!!

View attachment 537532

Who were you hunting with and what country?

 

[R eight]

On my R8 404 J I have iron sights, RD 20 red dot and a swaro z8i 1 - 8 x 24

I have yet to use the swaro

Or indeed any of them outside the shooting range and competition as this 404 set up is new to me (6 months)

I wouldn’t be comfortable with <3” eye relief as I’d be distracted by the potential for a clout from the scope.

Fear of injury would change the way I held the rifle

I think, in your situation, - if I might be presumptuous - I’d be inclined to dig deep and find a 1 - 6 swaro extended eye relief scope

J

It’s pretty hard to better the R8 when it comes to flexibility, especially with sight options.

Whilst my largest R8 barrel is only chambered in 9.3x62…..it does carry a 1.5 to 6 scope ( in. QD’s) Aimpoint H1 ( in QD’s) and iron sights. It’s a joy to use. My R8 barrels in 30/06 and 308 are likewise equipped.

As far as a working, hunting rifle it’s the best I’ve ever used.

 

[DWB]

Who were you hunting with and what country?

In South Africa, as a resident I do not need to be guided by a PH. So I was fortunate to have hunted all my buffalo alone just with a friend or tracker.

The 3 we shot together and the one after that was a buff herd that we had to selectively cull cows out of a herd. All on foot. Walked close to 60km in 4 days for that

 

[DLSJR]

I’m very happy with the Leupold VX5HD in 1-5x with Firedot reticle I just put on my 416. The quality of the optics is superior to the 35 year old Leupold 1-5 I had on it. The 404 is pretty similar to a 416, so I believe scoping a 404 is a no-brainer. My 64 year old eyes aren’t as good as they used to be, so brighter and the firedot really help.