35 Whelen

[Huvius]

The potential of the 350 Rigby Magnum is greater than the Whelen as are the Norma Magnum and the best of the vintage .35s, the 35 Newton and others such as the 350 G&H Magnum.
The Rigby was loaded to what was acceptable and achievable in the day considering the bullets they had and the game that the 350 was intended for.
With that in mind, the Whelen is perfectly suited for the game that one would take with a .35cal.
The Whelen will fit any standard action, is easily made from easy to find and cheap brass and burns less powder than the bigger volume .35s for the same velocities.
So, with today’s components, the .35 Whelen is an obvious choice for one wanting a .350.
I can’t argue with that…

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I see where DT is offering 310 gr woodLeigh Weldcor if I drop a bear permit might have to try them lol

@Flbt
What velocity is DT doing the 310s at.
It easy to load them to over 2,400 fps SAFELY.
Bob

 

[Deepfork]

i have had at least one 35 whelen since about 1989. My current one is one is built on a 1950 Columbian mauser with a shilem barrel. I also currently own a 1960s Winchester model 70 chambered in 358 Norma. I have had a 358STA that I felt was a bit too much of a good thing. I am a strong believer in shooting published loads, like loads that ate coming out of a reloading manual. I think if it's not published you are taking your chances. If I need more power than a 35 whelen or norma I will go with a larger cartridge. Pushing acartridge to its max is playing Russian roulette. I dont need that kind of excitement and surely dont need the cost both financially and physically. So when I hear someone saying that I loaded to this velocity I check to see what the books say. I guess that's just me.

I find I often stop before the published max loads. There are MANY bullet/powder combos never put in a book.

 

[jruby]

I find I often stop before the published max loads. There are MANY bullet/powder combos never put in a book.

There might be a reason for that - not all powders work well in all cartridges.

 

[Deepfork]

There might be a reason for that - not all powders work well in all cartridges.

No argument there.

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt
What velocity is DT doing the 310s at.
It easy to load them to over 2,400 fps SAFELY.
Bob

2075 fps for 2965 flbs out of a 24 in barrel

 

[Rule 303]

The pressures are different, you need a long action for the rigby. The cases are different and you mentioned the 35 whelen not the 358 norma. Still dont get your point on how they are so similar. Yes they shoot a 35 caliber bullet.

You need to read my original post properly I am talking about the performance. You know the muzzle velocities of the two are near equal, or where when the 350Rigby was popular in Africa.
Re the 358Norma I said that nowadays the 350 Rigby can be loaded to match it.

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

 

[jruby]

Just compared that to the 9.3x62
286g bullet going 2350fps is about 3500flbs.

I like the 35 whelen and love the 9.3x62. The 35 whelen is an excellent elk and bear round. I believe they both have thier place and have thier own strengths just dont need to turn a whelen into a 9.3x62.

 

[jruby]

You need to read my original post properly I am talking about the performance. You know the muzzle velocities of the two are near equal, or where when the 350Rigby was popular in Africa.
Re the 358Norma I said that nowadays the 350 Rigby can be loaded to match it.

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

My only question is out of which reloading manual i would find this information. I suspect the old cartridge has lower pressures.

 

[Deepfork]

Just compared that to the 9.3x62
286g bullet going 2350fps is about 3500flbs.

I like the 35 whelen and love the 9.3x62. The 35 whelen is an excellent elk and bear round. I believe they both have thier place and have thier own strengths just dont need to turn a whelen into a 9.3x62.

You are a fan of published data, according to multiple sources for bullets up to 250gr the 35 Whelen out performs the 9.3x62.

Not much out there for the 35 Whelen past 250gr, different story for the 9.3x62, plenty of published data for bullets up to 300gr and beyond, but why? I want something DG legal at that point.

 

[baxterb]

Just compared that to the 9.3x62
286g bullet going 2350fps is about 3500flbs.

I like the 35 whelen and love the 9.3x62. The 35 whelen is an excellent elk and bear round. I believe they both have thier place and have thier own strengths just dont need to turn a whelen into a 9.3x62.

My 9.3 throws a 286 North Fork at 2500+ fps.

But I still have a hankering for a 35 Whelen moving a 225 @2625 (the old 350 Rigby).

 

[jruby]

You are a fan of published data, according to multiple sources for bullets up to 250gr the 35 Whelen out performs the 9.3x62.

Not much out there for the 35 Whelen past 250gr, different story for the 9.3x62, plenty of published data for bullets up to 300gr and beyond, but why? I want something DG legal at that point.

Here in the states our dangero

You are a fan of published data, according to multiple sources for bullets up to 250gr the 35 Whelen out performs the 9.3x62.

Not much out there for the 35 Whelen past 250gr, different story for the 9.3x62, plenty of published data for bullets up to 300gr and beyond, but why? I want something DG legal at that point.

Your right Nosler says max loading for the whelen is 2641 and the 9.3 is only doing 2584. But the 9.3 is just getting started as the 35 whelen has reached it published max weight. I also betcha that the 9.3x62 has killed more game in Africa than the 35 whelen ever will. I have no way of proving this. Since I do not plan to go to Africa hunting I think the 9.3x62 works well as an upper end cartridge here in North America.

 

[BFaucett]

Since the .35 Whelen and the .350 Rigby Magnum are ballistically similar, I thought these articles about the .350 Rigby Magnum might be of interest.

I like the old classic cartridges used in Africa; a little nostalgia and the romance of safari in days gone by. In fact, one of the main reasons I purchased my Ruger M77 Hawkeye in .35 Whelen was to have a rifle that could duplicate the original ballistics of the .350 Rigby Magnum. Since I can't afford an original Rigby rifle in .350, I can at least duplicate the cartridge's original ballistics. (.350 Rigby Magnum: 225 gr .358" diameter bullet at 2625 fps according to my reprint of the Kynoch / ICI catalog of 1936.) Plus, the .35 Whelen is a classic American cartridge. In my opinion, it pairs very well with my Ruger M77 Mk II in .30-06 Springfield.

By the way, my reasoning was the same when I purchased my Ruger M77 Mk II in .338 Win Mag. I think it makes a good substitute for the .318 Westley Richards (.330" dia) and the .333 Jeffery (rimless) cartridges. A rifle in .338-06 would have been a closer match ballistically but they're more dificult to find (or have built). And, the .338 WM gives me a little extra velocity compared to the older .318 and .333 cartridges. I can always load down my .338 Win Mag a little to match the ballistics of the .318 W-R and the .333 Jeffery if I want to and I have done so in the past. My .338 WM firing a 250 gr Woodleigh RN bullet at 2500 fps is very pleasant to shoot. A perfect load for the bushveld, IMO. (I had my fourth trip to South Africa booked for 2008 but I cancelled the trip in 2007. Remember the 2007-2008 financial crisis? I was planning to take my .338 Win Mag on that trip but, regrettably, I never made it back to Africa. Such is life.)

I hope you find the articles linked below to be of interest.

Just my two cents... Cheers! Bob F.

Behind the Bullet: .350 Rigby Magnum
by Philip Massaro posted on November 17, 2021
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/behind-the-bullet-350-rigby-magnum/

Rigby’s .350 Magnum – A Nostalgic Trip Down Memory Lane
SCI - August 13, 2021
https://safariclub.org/rigbys-350-magnum-a-nostalgic-trip-down-memory-lane/

Rigby’s .350 Magnum: A trip down memory lane, 1963
by Robin Hurt
https://www.johnrigbyandco.com/rigbys-350-magnum-a-trip-down-memory-lane-1963-by-robin-hurt/
(John Rigby & Co.)

Also see:

Loading Bench: What’s Right With The .35 Whelen
posted on December 19, 2019
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/loading-bench-what-s-right-with-the-35-whelen/

Handloads: A Faster .35 Whelen
by John Haviland posted on July 15, 2023
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/handloads-a-faster-35-whelen/

The Griffin & Howe Story
posted on July 10, 2021
(Briefly discusses the .35 Whelen and the .350 G&H Magnum cartridges.)
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-griffin-howe-story/

Griffin & Howe: 100 Years Of Adventure In The Making
A partnership between wood and metal craftsmen formed the foundation of a dynasty in custom riflemaking that built arms for some of the most famous people to ever venture out on safari.
by Rick Hacker posted on December 18, 2023
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/griffin-howe-100-years-of-adventure-in-the-making/

Limited Edition .35 Whelen Rifle
Griffin & Howe
https://griffinhowe.com/custom-products/35-whelen/

Griffin & Howe
https://griffinhowe.com/

.350 Rigby
(the .350 Rigby Magnum and the .350 Rigby No. 2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.350_Rigby

.400/350 Nitro Express
(aka the .400/350 Rigby Nitro Express)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.400/350_Nitro_Express


Some of my rifles:

Ruger M77 Mk II .30-06 Springfield

Ruger M77 Mk II .338 Win Mag

Ruger M77 Hawkeye .35 Whelen

Ernest Hemingway takes aim with his Griffin & Howe Springfield, Serial No. 956, chambered in .30-’06 Sprg., which still retains its G&H scope mount, even though the famed author relied only on its iron sights to take numerous game animals on two East African safaris and on hunts in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana. “… most beautifully made and finished and simple, practical gun I’ve ever seen,” he wrote. Unfortunately, this rifle was stolen in the 1970s, and its current whereabouts are unknown.
from: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/griffin-howe-100-years-of-adventure-in-the-making/

Osa Johnson, a celebrated filmmaker, author, and adventuress from the 1920s and ’30s, is shown with her Griffin & Howe Springfield .30-’06 Sprg. on one of her many safaris, during which she guarded her husband, Martin, while he filmed African wildlife. On at least three occasions, she saved his life by killing charging animals. She also supplied meat for the camp, often using this rifle.
from: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/griffin-howe-100-years-of-adventure-in-the-making/

 

[Rule 303]

My only question is out of which reloading manual i would find this information. I suspect the old cartridge has lower pressures.

I would say they were producing about the same pressure to get the same velocity. I do not rely on reloading manuals for historic information from hunters. Try looking up the 350 Rigby in a reloading manual. The bit about penetration is from Taylor. The info about velocity for the 350 Rigby came from articles about the 350 Rigby and I think from memory velocities published by rigby.

You reley way to much on the Reloading Manual, they are a guide not set in stone. I have two Wildcats, had to develop loads from scratch, no manuals for them.

 

[jruby]

I would say they were producing about the same pressure to get the same velocity. I do not rely on reloading manuals for historic information from hunters. Try looking up the 350 Rigby in a reloading manual. The bit about penetration is from Taylor. The info about velocity for the 350 Rigby came from articles about the 350 Rigby and I think from memory velocities published by rigby.

You reley way to much on the Reloading Manual, they are a guide not set in stone. I have two Wildcats, had to develop loads from scratch, no manuals for them.

I have yet to get myself into trouble following a reloading manual. Basically what your doing is called wildcating. What do you use for pressure testing?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

2075 fps for 2965 flbs out of a 24 in barrel

@Flbt 2,455 fps will give you over 4,000fpe with the 310s
Bob

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt 2,455 fps will give you over 4,000fpe with the 310s
Bob

Can you get that speed out of the 358? It’s slower than your 35w right?

 

[Rule 303]

I have yet to get myself into trouble following a reloading manual. Basically what your doing is called wildcating. What do you use for pressure testing?

Sorry I did not go into more detail in my last post as I had to go out, bit of a hurry.
I know of one person who had serious problems following the manuals. A 308 using published starting loads was producing hard bolt lift and primers starting to back out. Starting Loads. Manuals are guide only. Problem his new brass was way thicker than other brass so less internal powder capacity. Manuals are a guide only, I can not stress this enough. Do you weight any new brand of brass to see how it compares with the brass you are using?

Until I got a Chronograph I was loading to max manual listings with no pressure signs. When I used the Chrony I found these loads in all my rifles to be 200 to 300 fps below what the manual's ( Guide Book) said.

Pressure testing: I use the same brand of primers and when they start to flatten then I go by case head measurements. To get to a powder and starting loads I use the reloading guides and look at data from other rounds with similar case capacities, bullet weights in calibres as close to what I am making up. What ever I figure is a starting load I reduce that by 5%. I did mention that I had two WILDCATS seems you didn't read this as you go on to tell me I am wildcatting, really!

Sorry, in my haste this morning I forgot to mention Loading Data for the 350Rigby Magnum, 400-350 Nitro Express, 350 Rigby No2 can be found in the Woodleigh Reloading manual. Loads are done to replicate the performance of these rounds when originally made.

You state:" I also betcha that the 9.3x62 has killed more game in Africa than the 35 whelen ever will. I have no way of proving this." What point are you trying to make?

If you want to make a valid comparison for what ever reason then you would need to do a side by side with the 350 Rigby Magnum and the 9.3X62 as both of these were used in Africa around the same time.

 

[Rule 303]

BFaucett,​

Thanks for putting those links up. I have read a couple of them many, many years ago. I have saved them so I can read them at my leisure.

 

[jruby]

I have not had that problem with brass - I use Lake City for military rifles ( M1a, FAL, AR10's) and commercial brass for my hunting rifles. You should be able to tell the difference without having to weigh each case. I have been reloading since 1982 and this has never been a problem.

I stated:" I also betcha that the 9.3x62 has killed more game in Africa than the 35 whelen ever will. I have no way of proving this." My response was in regard to what do you think they have used the 9.3x62 for over a hundred plus years for. The same cannot be said about the 35 Whelen.

I have loaded for the following Ackley improved wildcats; 8mm-06AI, 22-250AI, and 6.5-06AI, 35 whelen AI. I also have a 404 B&J Express. I have found published load data for each of these from reputable sources so I dont push them til the primers flatten. I have never found the hottest round to be the most accurate. I will always take accuracy over speed.

I guess someone has to take the chance and most cartridges started as wild cats at one time. I won't take that risk. I am getting older and my parts are too dear to me. If I dont have enough energy in the cartridge I am shooting I will just go bigger.