Hunter Numbers Are Declining, We Need More Hunters.... Is This a Lie We Perpetuate?

I would argue we have less hunters and more shooters.
Fieldcraft makes the hunter. Amd it seems a great many people getting into the sport care more about absolute efficiency than old school practices
Yes sir. For only a few of that number above see hunting as an experience. High fences and fancy guns. A few years ago, I talked to the people at DSC about promoting hunting for youth as an experience. Even came up with a plan to select young man and young lady to go on a trip to Africa and document the experience of the whole prep, trip, and return. The idea was to enable them to do what needed to be done not just give them the package but to make it a discovery journey - experience. How to get ready, letting them contact the PH, book their flight, choose the right rifle, the right ammo to meet the right needs for the trip not as a trip bur to make sure they are ready, the right clothing (they figure it out), the best flights carrying a firearm on a plane, talking to the PH (a lot) about the animals to harvest, what to do with the meat when collected and how to make sure it is used properly, who might use it and why, and a whole lot more.

The idea was to have these two people experience it and then have them present the experience at the convention at one of the evenings and even have a booth about it. And a whole convention theme about hunting as an experience. Experience as the Trophy. I figured it might start a journey to sustain hunting as an experience not just a new marketing campaign. Might even help a few middle- age folks to rethink how they see things a little differently. Might even help a few of the vendors there as well think how they might market. I even had a PH and others who were willing to help and actually donate the hunt.

So how did that go over? Well, has anyone been to DSC in the past 4 years and seen this? Me either.

As a side note, when I spoke to the gentleman in charge at that time, he said that I would have to do it for them. He didn't get it.
 
Yes sir. For only a few of that number above see hunting as an experience. High fences and fancy guns. A few years ago, I talked to the people at DSC about promoting hunting for youth as an experience. Even came up with a plan to select young man and young lady to go on a trip to Africa and document the experience of the whole prep, trip, and return. The idea was to enable them to do what needed to be done not just give them the package but to make it a discovery journey - experience. How to get ready, letting them contact the PH, book their flight, choose the right rifle, the right ammo to meet the right needs for the trip not as a trip bur to make sure they are ready, the right clothing (they figure it out), the best flights carrying a firearm on a plane, talking to the PH (a lot) about the animals to harvest, what to do with the meat when collected and how to make sure it is used properly, who might use it and why, and a whole lot more.

The idea was to have these two people experience it and then have them present the experience at the convention at one of the evenings and even have a booth about it. And a whole convention theme about hunting as an experience. Experience as the Trophy. I figured it might start a journey to sustain hunting as an experience not just a new marketing campaign. Might even help a few middle- age folks to rethink how they see things a little differently. Might even help a few of the vendors there as well think how they might market. I even had a PH and others who were willing to help and actually donate the hunt.

So how did that go over? Well, has anyone been to DSC in the past 4 years and seen this? Me either.

As a side note, when I spoke to the gentleman in charge at that time, he said that I would have to do it for them. He didn't get it.
Ya id go farther I think part of hunting also ties into the environment and seasons knowing how the environment around imoacts wildlife as well as tracking and wildlife managment.
 
Ya id go farther I think part of hunting also ties into the environment and seasons knowing how the environment around imoacts wildlife as well as tracking and wildlife managment.
Possible but knowing what I have seen with the Big Guys probability doesn't exist. Why? they too have no idea.
 
They don't see the big picture of what the hunting experience is. They talk about conservation but only one part. How about the conservation of the hunting experience with young people and a lot more. Of course, it is only my opinion but not sure they have a very deep understanding. Hey their shallow one works for them. They have the good and the right words to use without what the words mean as part of a bigger picture.

I have a great friend who is a retired 3-star General. He once told me that he spent 90% of his career solving problems. However, he was quick to add that 95% of that time was spent solving the wrong problem. I would be very curious to know exactly what problem they are trying to solve and if what they are doing solves it.

But hey that is just my opinion.
 
When I was growing up in the 50s, we ate wild game once or twice a week. We hunted year around, there was something always in season in Missouri. I now only hunt deer. I believe there are less small game hunters and the last two years on opening day of firearms deer season I did not hear a single shot. The CWD in the Kansas deer heard has reduced the number of hunters.
Mike
 
Growing up, I constantly heard that hunter numbers are declining. We have never had less hunters. Hunters are aging out and no new young hunters are joining in.

As an adult, many years later, it has never been harder to draw tags, find access, and avoid running into others on public land.

Also, now as an adult, I hear both things being repeated constantly. "We don't have enough hunters"; "We have too many hunters".

I think both things are sort of true and sort of false.

By percentages, they allegedly started tracking it in the 1960s and 7.7% of the population hunted. Which is about 14 million people (a bit under really at 13.86m)
Now about 5% of the population hunts. Which sounds like a drop in hunters, but since the population is drastically higher it is more individuals hunting. It comes out to 17.1 million people hunting.

So, here is the deal, if you are talking about a "need" of voters, yes we are down in numbers because percentage will matter there. However, we never exactly had a large percentage.

But, if you are talking about sheer numbers, competing for tags, public land etc, we have never been more crowded than we are now. There are 3,240,000 more people trying to do the same thing, often times with less public space to do it, and less landowners agreeing to allow access.

I also believe that "western hunting" is likely the most overpopulated it has ever been. Due to most modes of transport becoming more advanced people are more likely to travel further and more often. Additionally, people who are even slightly interested in hunting, and many who aren't, are inundated with hunting videos on youtube and other social media glorifying western hunting like elk as the holy grail of hunting. So, more people than ever are showing interest in it, putting in tags, and giving it a go.

These overcrowding problems aren't likely to get better. I think many people think we can "introduce youth" our way out of it. Put bluntly, it won't. There is almost nothing I can think of that will change this trajectory that wouldn't also be devastating to hunting.

All of that said, I take youth hunters out every single year, as long as there is one around that even hints at wanting to go. I want to share this hobby/passion with anyone that might be interested in it.

But the reality is, we will never recruit enough people to make some big voting group. And, even if we did, we would be miserable as hunters. We would effectively ruin what we love about hunting.

I am divided in my opinion.
In my country, Croatia, there is 70.000 hunters, in total population of 3.7 million people.
Maybe it does not sound much, but this is the biggest civilian NGO, in the country, and bigger in size then two main political parties.

Now looking into hunting environment, problems are same as everywhere else in the world, but when it comes to hunting laws, and partialy when it comes to gun laws, for average hunter the laws are very very good, hunter friendly.
I think this comes from lobying power of the organisation. I cannot say this for fact, this is just my impression.

Ageing.
Yes, my hunting club average age is 54. National average I dont know, but it should be similar.
We are old.
Hunters are generally conservative community, if a young hunter comes from nowhere (ie he is not a son ,or grandson of some local hunter, he will have hard time being accepted to local hunting community. We are not warm welcoming community. It is turn off for many young people.
Price of equipment is high, and when young you need money for everything else.
So, elderly community we remain.
I speak for my local community. Also no youth programs

Not enough hunters.
Yes and no. It would be better to have more hunters, to make better public visual presence.
But on the other hand, how many predators you need per square mile?
It is already too much.

Most of the hunting is done in hunting clubs.
And the situation most common in club is: like 90 tags issued annually for boar, red deer, and roe deer, in the club which has 150 members.
Then the club rules for hunting are restrictive, competition is high, many hunters unhappy. Average is less then one animal taken per hunter per year.
 
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I'm lucky enough to be the resident of a state with a small human population & a large deer population (Arkansas) with a good amount of public land. So I really can't complain too much since I can always create opportunities to hunt if I'm willing to put in the effort. The neighboring states that I sometimes hunt in (Mississippi, Louisiana & Texas) have similar opportunities. Fortunately, I also have good friends who invite me to go hunting with them.

When talking about numbers, the famous phrase "Lies, damned lies & statistics..." comes to mind. How things are counted & who is doing the counting can always create misleading narratives. For me personally, the number of young men hunting (e.g. my nephews) has decreased. When I was young, my male cousins & I all hunted with our uncles. But looking at my hunting friends, I see an increased number of daughters & granddaughters hunting now than I did 50 years ago.

A couple of hurdles that I see to hunting is too many other options for entertainment being available & sometimes limited accessibility to private land. There's nothing wrong with commercial companies & wealthy individual leasing prime locations & I don't blame landowners for capitalizing on an opportunity. But it can sometimes make it a challenge for a solitary individual like me to find a good private piece of land to hunt on.

When I go to the shooting range, a significant number of younger shooters are out there with an AR-15 & a striker-fired 9mm. I enjoy shooting something with a big boom & a nice recoil that would do an excellent job of putting some game in the freezer. But I often feel like I'm in the minority when I do that. During cease fires I usually walk up & down the line chatting with other shooters & my selection of rifles is often markedly different from the majority of other people there. I guess that shouldn't be too surprising since I often favor falling blocks in some unusual calibers. But the younger the shooter, the more noticeable the disparity.
 
They don't see the big picture of what the hunting experience is. They talk about conservation but only one part. How about the conservation of the hunting experience with young people and a lot more. Of course, it is only my opinion but not sure they have a very deep understanding. Hey their shallow one works for them. They have the good and the right words to use without what the words mean as part of a bigger picture.

I have a great friend who is a retired 3-star General. He once told me that he spent 90% of his career solving problems. However, he was quick to add that 95% of that time was spent solving the wrong problem. I would be very curious to know exactly what problem they are trying to solve and if what they are doing solves it.

But hey that is just my opinion.
I think that then falls back to why dont we be the catalyst of change?

Imean lets say we created out own curriculum that went a combination of 1920s boyscouts and german hunting wildlife managment track.
I deffinetly feel hunter ed course is anemic in usa amd im ok with a more rigerous and costly process to get better quality hunters
 
I think that then falls back to why dont we be the catalyst of change?

Imean lets say we created out own curriculum that went a combination of 1920s boyscouts and german hunting wildlife managment track.
I deffinetly feel hunter ed course is anemic in usa amd im ok with a more rigerous and costly process to get better quality hunters
I'd be all for advanced training for hunters. Several States seem to fear allowing certain weapons or hinting methods.

Why not require that in order to participate in some hunts, additional training and certification be required? Somewhat like earning a motorcycle endorsement after you already have a regular driver's license. You take a written test, and show ability through the cones, etc. From then on you are good to go.
 
I'd be all for advanced training for hunters. Several States seem to fear allowing certain weapons or hinting methods.

Why not require that in order to participate in some hunts, additional training and certification be required? Somewhat like earning a motorcycle endorsement after you already have a regular driver's license. You take a written test, and show ability through the cones, etc. From then on you are good to go.
What weapons and methods are you referring?
 
In the West, there are way, way more hunters than there is opportunity. When I was a kid, it was pretty unusual to not get a deer every year. Certainly you at least had an opportunity. Now, general season hunts are pretty crowded with low chances for anything larger than a 2-point. Controlled hunts, even those with mediocre trophy quality in youth-only areas, can be drawn maybe once or twice before a kid is an adult. None of my kids has ever drawn a bull elk tag. They've put in every year, and the oldest has applied around 15 times without drawing.

Pretty much all landowners have figured out they can sell their tags for 5 figures. When I was a kid it wasn't so hard to get one, and sometimes for free.

Very few people hunt small game and birds now. Elk, moose, sheep, and deer get all the attention. I go to Africa to hunt big game. It's pretty sad kids now just don't have a chance to enjoy what it used to be. Much of the winter range is now subdivisions. Migration corridors are messed up with highways and fences. New predators aren't helping.

About the last thing we need around here is more hunters.
 
I think that then falls back to why dont we be the catalyst of change?

Imean lets say we created out own curriculum that went a combination of 1920s boyscouts and german hunting wildlife managment track.
I deffinetly feel hunter ed course is anemic in usa amd im ok with a more rigerous and costly process to get better quality hunters
Agree.
 
What weapons and methods are you referring?
Center-fire bottle necked cartridges for one, Crossbows are another, moving or running targets with a rifle is another.

State Game and Fish Departments around the U.S. and similar agencies around the World seem unwilling to allow anything they aren't familiar with, or weapons or methods not legal in the past.

For example, my home State of Ohio fought against Crossbows during the Deer archery season, claiming they were just like a rifle. The Sportsman's Clubs in this State and many others held demonstrations to show Hunters as well as Game Officers that were invited, that even the fastest crossbow at just over 400fps is nothing like a Center-Fire rifle. Most Eastern States now allow crossbows during Deer archery season.

Western States are mostly still in the dark ages, insisting that crossbows are just like a rifle. Wyoming is the only State I'm aware of that allows crossbows during the General Seasons. Arizona very strictly prohibits crossbows, or at least they did while I lived there. To use one you had to have a letter from a Doctor stating that you were 90% disabled in one or both arms. Why not have a training course for certain hunting implements at local Sportsman's Clubs the same way we've done basic Hunter Safety Courses for generations now? If that were the case, the ignorant myth that a 350-400fps crossbow has the range capability as a rifle would disappear.

The straight walled cartridges only exist because several States that used to be shotgun slug only, couldn't be convinced to allow the average Deer hunter to use a bottle necked cartridge. First it was pistol caliber rifles .357 mag or larger, then it was a specific list of calibers, then it was anything straight walled.

The smarter thing to do would have been a required training course on Center-Fire rifles. A short one day classroom or online courses on ballistics/trajectory, bullet types, appropriate calibers for various types of game, field shooting positions, etc. then require an accuracy standard on the range. Upon completion, you receive a certificate and the State records reflect that you are now qualified to hunt with this implement.

I also believe basic rifle marksmanship should be taught, but currently there is no requirement. Standing, kneeling, sitting and prone unsupported positions were taught to generations of soldiers, shooters and hunters. Now most hunters are only familiar with shooting from a benchrest, and their field accuracy is abysmal. We owe it to the animals we hunt to be better than that.

Running targets with rifles is something most Game and Fish Departments, and every shooting range in the U.S. are strictly against, yet this type of shooting at a certain accuracy standard is required to obtain a hunting license in most of Europe. Driven hunting for Deer was the norm in eastern Ohio when I grew up, but now it's actively discouraged due to safety concerns. Very few hunters in the younger generations have fired a shot at a moving target with a single projectile firearm.

Rather than keeping the average hunter ignorant, open up new possibilities and train the experienced hunter and the newer generation.
 
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What weapons and methods are you referring?
Semi-autos, inline muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, thermal scopes, supressors are some that I know of that are either outright or banned for big game hunting in various states. From my experience many game departments are woefully behind on technology. In PA, until several years ago, crossbows were banned. Go back a little further and bow trigger releases were banned.
 
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Semi-autos, inline muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, thermal scopes, supressors are some that I know of that are either outright or banned for big game hunting in various states. From my experience many game departments are woefully behind on technology. In PA, until several years ago, crossbows were banned.
Oh it gets worse. Up until just a few years ago, to hunt varmints at night in Ohio, you were required to have "A continuous white light visible for 360 degrees". As if it's 1870 and I'm out with my coon hounds and have my Railroad lantern in hand! Yet that's how we were expected to hunt coyotes for quite a number of years.

It took quite a pounding to get most Game and Fish Departments to change the regulations and allow night vision, thermals and suppressors.

Trapping and predator control regulation's are another can of worms, but I won't go there.
 
From what I've noticed in the recruitment of new hunters, an impediment is the complexity of hunting regulations. Every year, it's multiple changes and a few more pages in the book. It's not a problem if one's been hunting for years but to a new guy or gal, it can be an issue.
 
Growing up, I constantly heard that hunter numbers are declining. We have never had less hunters. Hunters are aging out and no new young hunters are joining in.

As an adult, many years later, it has never been harder to draw tags, find access, and avoid running into others on public land.

Also, now as an adult, I hear both things being repeated constantly. "We don't have enough hunters"; "We have too many hunters".

I think both things are sort of true and sort of false.

By percentages, they allegedly started tracking it in the 1960s and 7.7% of the population hunted. Which is about 14 million people (a bit under really at 13.86m)
Now about 5% of the population hunts. Which sounds like a drop in hunters, but since the population is drastically higher it is more individuals hunting. It comes out to 17.1 million people hunting.

So, here is the deal, if you are talking about a "need" of voters, yes we are down in numbers because percentage will matter there. However, we never exactly had a large percentage.

But, if you are talking about sheer numbers, competing for tags, public land etc, we have never been more crowded than we are now. There are 3,240,000 more people trying to do the same thing, often times with less public space to do it, and less landowners agreeing to allow access.

I also believe that "western hunting" is likely the most overpopulated it has ever been. Due to most modes of transport becoming more advanced people are more likely to travel further and more often. Additionally, people who are even slightly interested in hunting, and many who aren't, are inundated with hunting videos on youtube and other social media glorifying western hunting like elk as the holy grail of hunting. So, more people than ever are showing interest in it, putting in tags, and giving it a go.

These overcrowding problems aren't likely to get better. I think many people think we can "introduce youth" our way out of it. Put bluntly, it won't. There is almost nothing I can think of that will change this trajectory that wouldn't also be devastating to hunting.

All of that said, I take youth hunters out every single year, as long as there is one around that even hints at wanting to go. I want to share this hobby/passion with anyone that might be interested in it.

But the reality is, we will never recruit enough people to make some big voting group. And, even if we did, we would be miserable as hunters. We would effectively ruin what we love about hunting.
Very well said, agree 100%. I have said on here before, there are just to dam many hunters.
 
From what I've noticed in the recruitment of new hunters, an impediment is the complexity of hunting regulations. Every year, it's multiple changes and a few more pages in the book. It's not a problem if one's been hunting for years but to a new guy or gal, it can be an issue.
I agree.

I just got back from Alaska and picked up a copy of the hunting regulations.

142 pages!

Why not TEACH hunters to shoot a rifle safely, and do away with these ignorant regulations.
SWC.jpg

So a Sharps 50-110 with Soule or Creedmoore sight is legal, but a 308Win is not.

Why?

Because we can't trust hunters to not shoot over the backstops at shooting ranges, or be responsible on flat agricultural areas when hunting. Rather than making people smart, let's pass STOOPID Regulations. :rolleyes:
 

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