The Clash of the Titans: Heym Martini Express VS Rigby Big Game

In all honesty I would opt for a model 70 and save enough for a hunt or two. In the end they are all going to deliver the same pill.

Garciamarquez1918 said:

It's important to remember too that then and now Rigby made different grades of rifle. I know in doubles there were three grades -- I'm sure someone on here knows whether the same was true of bolt rifles.

So if we're comparing a current Rigby to a pre-war Rigby we need to be sure it's apples to apples.

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Id deffinetly be interested in someone chiming in on the nuances of the older guns. Always a good and educational read

farmer_john said:

Id deffinetly be interested in someone chiming in on the nuances of the older guns. Always a good and educational read

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the older rigbys where built a bit more trim than the new rifles the grip area on most all the new rigbys is thicker to prevent the grip from breaking all the highland stalkers wear a red rubber butt again so the butt gets a bit of padding so not to chip none of the original 7mm. had 1" recoil pads unless specified but few and far between ,,the old 7mm or 275 rigbys were built with an intermediate oberndorf action made for 7mm exclusively other actions were exclusive such as the slanted box rimmed actions of the 303.. and 400/350 as far as grades were concerned rigby would do what was asked for engraving ,scope, trap grip , bolt peep as far as wood they would used what was correct grain structure especially for the 416 today that has changed as there are 5 grades of wood plus different barrel configurations 22-24 for 416 when pre war all were 25 1/2. the only company making an exclusive action for a particular cartridge is Holland & Hollands new 375 takedown as the magazine is setup just like the early rigby 400/350,s slanted to ease the feeding of the belted case all the comes with a hefty price rigby could get you into a new 350 rigby for about 18k usd but if you want the real look with the flat base in front of the action the tell tale look then you will be over 60k which is ridiculous one for sale now for 95k ...insanity

I am actually shocked at how few Rigby rifles in .416 Rigby were made before the change in ownership in like 1997.

Hornedfrogbbq said:

I am actually shocked at how few Rigby rifles in .416 Rigby were made before the change in ownership in like 1997.

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They were custom made to order bespoke rifles. That was an even smaller market then than now.

Hornedfrogbbq said:

I am actually shocked at how few Rigby rifles in .416 Rigby were made before the change in ownership in like 1997.

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there were about 189 prewar 416 built some actions were rebuilt again in the 70,s onward but the hunting changed in Africa so the need wasn't there and the mod 70 and its price point with a 458 or 375 was much easier to afford especially for PH,s. today the CZ fills that gap

pjaln said:

there were about 189 prewar 416 built some actions were rebuilt again in the 70,s onward but the hunting changed in Africa so the need wasn't there and the mod 70 and its price point with a 458 or 375 was much easier to afford especially for PH,s. today the CZ fills that gap

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The 416 Rigby was not popular in Africa pre WW2 . The 404 and 425s were far more common . The 458 and 375 became popular in1950/60s because Imperial Chemical Industries who owned Kynoch were in financial stress and cut back on ammo production . Loss of colonies also a factor . Winchester stepped in with the 458 / 375/ 338 family . As noted above very few original 416s were made preWW2 . Only 28 rifles in 500J and less than 100 of 505G were built . Sub 100 of the 600NE also. The fame of these cartridges far exceeded their production and use . All good but there was already plenty of good stuff available .

PCC600 said:

The 416 Rigby was not popular in Africa pre WW2 . The 404 and 425s were far more common . The 458 and 375 became popular in1950/60s because Imperial Chemical Industries who owned Kynoch were in financial stress and cut back on ammo production . Loss of colonies also a factor . Winchester stepped in with the 458 / 375/ 338 family . As noted above very few original 416s were made preWW2 . Only 28 rifles in 500J and less than 100 of 505G were built . Sub 100 of the 600NE also. The fame of these cartridges far exceeded their production and use . All good but there was already plenty of good stuff available .

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yes the 425 and 404 were game ranger rifles they were also able to be produced on standard length mauser actions jeffery did this as well as C&H, some of the westley game ranger rifles did not use the 'clips' or have the signature drop box they were very basic

pjaln said:

most every pre war British firm had many workers building different parts of the guns they built ,actions were made in Germany as well as barrels actions a rigby exclusive and some say stocking also. so it was a concerted effort to produce rifles in England not matter who the firm was a lot of trade workers made many rifles for everyone . a gunsmith like Matt builds everything himself in house except the action his work and his styling which is very much prewar Britain is phenomenal ,,Ralf Martini being a German was trained in building the whole gun as well as Reto beuhler ,, I own many rigbys I will admit the new rigby 416 that I own is not the same fit and finish as my originals but the styling is mostly there and the sights are pretty good and very close to the original tho the inletting is mostly machined and is ok not sure how much hand finishing goes into the heym/martinis. I would give the rigby the nod but would go with an original Ralf Martini/Hagn possibly over both

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I want a Hagn very badly!

Tex .416 said:

They were custom made to order bespoke rifles. That was an even smaller market then than now.

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I don’t think many if any of the original 416s were actual bespoke rifles.
They were, as far as I’ve observed, made to a pattern - stocked and finished all the same.
I’m not even sure that Rigby ever even offered the 416 with a horn forend tip prewar.
They were very much a working rifle and that may be a clue as to why they made so few of them.
There weren’t all that many PHs that were ready to trade their doubles for a magazine rifle in the era.
Westley Richards, on the other hand, made their 425s from a very utilitarian hunting rifle or as ornate as the buyer could wish.
As an example, Rigby never made a takedown version of their 416 or maybe even the 350 or 275.
Well, maybe a 275 but I’ve never seen one.
George Gibbs made very few 505s and some at the end were very ornate.
My great uncle bought one from the Gibbs agency in Canada that was engraved and quite a special rifle.
George Caswell bought it from him and said it was the most extensively engraved 505 he had ever seen.
He told me that it was one of the few rifles he really wished he had held on to.
The 404 was perhaps the best of the 400 class magazine rifles, as mentioned before, could be built up on a standard Mauser action.
There seems to be few actual Jeffery made 404s in circulation as there are very few Oberndorf made TypeAs out there but many British makers adopted the 404 as their ultimate big game offering simply, I believe, that it could be comfortably built up on a standard Mauser ‘98 action.

Here is Tony Sanchez Arino’s 416 Rigby that sold at auction a few years ago. I know that J.A. Hunter did use one on occasion too but there are no photos available.

BJH65 said:

Here is Tony Sanchez Arino’s 416 Rigby that sold at auction a few years ago. I know that J.A. Hunter did use one on occasion too but there are no photos available.

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Wonderful working rifle.

I agree. It's stunning

Here’s a comparison from top to bottom: my Heym Martini Express 416 Rigby, Tony Sanchez Arino’s vintage 416 Rigby and current 416 Rigby Big Game:

BJH65 said:

Here’s a comparison from top to bottom: my Heym Martini Express 416 Rigby, Tony Sanchez Arino’s vintage 416 Rigby and current 416 Rigby Big Game:

View attachment 792720
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If I could have any it’d be the middle one.

I like the fine forend, low profile sights and drop in stock. That thing would come up perfectly inline without thinking.

JPbowhunter said:

If I could have any it’d be the middle one.

I like the fine forend, low profile sights and drop in stock. That thing would come up perfectly inline without thinking.

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I wonder why Rigby didn’t go with a slimmer forend and overall slimmer profile like the vintage 416 Rigby? Of course they do not seem to have any issues selling them and retooling/redesigning would eat into their bottom dollar and plenty of folks like the current Rigby BG as it is, I just prefer a slimmer forend.

JPbowhunter said:

If I could have any it’d be the middle one.

I like the fine forend, low profile sights and drop in stock. That thing would come up perfectly inline without thinking.

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Me too . Stock shape on the original was not meant for scopes . I think the longer barrels ( 26 inches ) make for a better looking rifle as does the single square bridge action . The original Rigby is the stand out and no doubt priced accordingly .

PCC600 said:

Me too . Stock shape on the original was not meant for scopes . I think the longer barrels ( 26 inches ) make for a better looking rifle as does the single square bridge action . The original Rigby is the stand out and no doubt priced accordingly .

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Absolutely, if I ever get a custom rifle done it’d be a 26” barrel too.

Huvius said:

I’m not even sure that Rigby ever even offered the 416 with a horn forend tip prewar.

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I know of at least one made post war though, an oddball custom.

Huvius said:

There weren’t all that many PHs that were ready to trade their doubles for a magazine rifle in the era.

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Yes, there where many PH`s that used Rigby 416. That`s one of the reasons the Rigby BG is so famous.
Some, as mine was mostly used as backup carried by a gun bearer.
As a side note, Bell had 2 Rigby BG`s, although not a PH and never mentioning it in his books as far as I know.

BJH65 said:

I wonder why Rigby didn’t go with a slimmer forend and overall slimmer profile like the vintage 416 Rigby? Of course they do not seem to have any issues selling them and retooling/redesigning would eat into their bottom dollar and plenty of folks like the current Rigby BG as it is, I just prefer a slimmer forend.

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I do believe Rigby have at least made a few BG`s a few years back with vintage specs. Don`t know if it is in their current lineup though.
As PCC600 wrote, the new ones are much better suited for optics and is what + 90% of customers wants these days.
I will also mention the weight. The 416 Rigby is easily capable of pushing a 450 grain bullet at over 2400 fps. In a 9 1/4 lbs vintage it kicks like mule on steroids. Been there..