Avoiding CTE, brain damage, retina injury etc with big bore rifles ?

I own a 375 H&H, a 416 Rigby, a 458 Lott, two 450 Rigby's and several other big bores. Adding weight to the gun seems to work better than anything else. It's best if extra weight balances evenly, but most important the weight cannot move as the gun fires, or else it's effect on recoil is less.

Another thing that helps quite a bit for long shooting sessions is a Browning Reactar pad and a shirt specifically fitted for the pad.
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I like Kevin's, but they are sized on the big side. If you wear a large, order a medium.
 
This may have already been mentioned, but the shock waves from other firearms can really be damaging.

I shoot at a public range. The booths are covered and it's mostly guys with black guns. So lots of shots, lots of noise going sideways rather than down-range. I get out from under the roof when I'm done shooting but I still find on days when there are lots of other shooters I get a mild headache whereas on slow days I don't. Just another variable in the equation to consider,
 
I have recently purchased a very nice .458 WM ( https://www.africahunting.com/threads/custom-rifle-ranch-458-win-mag.90030/ ) , and have been shooting it a bit zeroing iron sights that I installed. I love the rifle, and feel it is built correctly for a big bore. It has a wide comb that rises slightly to the rear, a wide butt, weighted 10 pounds with scope, a bit over 9 without scope. LOP is correct for me as far as I can tell (matches most every other rifle I shoot). I shoot it well, and can shoot it comfortably EXCEPT that I get a mild headache after a few rounds that lingers for days. It is really ruining my fun. I am a bit worried about long term health effects of shooting it. I have only shot it from the standing position off a barricade or sticks, not from bench. I am preparing for a 2026 buff and elephant hunt, shooting a 450 grain bullet at a chronoed 2310 FPS, with a recoil energy of 64 ft/lbs. Not insignificant, but not nearly as heavy as some of the real big boys. I have been shooting it with four cartridges in trap in buttstock, so weight is about 10 pounds without scope. I am probably an average sized 50 year old, 5' 11" 170 pounds.

The stock is not smacking my cheek, my shoulder doesn't have any issues, it seems the headache is caused by the recoil energy delivered causing rapid skull movement. I have seen CTE, retina detachment, etc mentioned in discussing big bore rifles, but nothing detailed or really much in the way of avoiding it. I imagine it is possible that I have some sort of medical condition that would exacerbate this problem, but I have had brain scans in the past which showed no issues. The last such scan was following a concussion a few years back, maybe prior concussions are to blame in the cumulative effect.

So what do the big bore experts here say ? Is this just something that goes with the territory with big rifles ? Am I an outlier in getting headaches from recoil ? What can I do to avoid this issue other than being satisfied with shooting and hunting with my 375s ? Running numbers in a recoil calculator shows that if the rifle weighs two pounds more, 12 pounds, the recoil energy drops to about 53 ft/lbs, a fair reduction. I have prepared 4 cartridges filled with lead that weigh nearly a pound to put in buttstock while shooting. I have considered adding a tungsten weight inletted under the barrel in forearm to add another pound. This would give me a 12 pound rifle for practicing, and a bit over 11 while hunting with actual cartridges in buttstock. Would a strap on wearable pad help with this aspect of the effects of recoil ? I have never used a shoulder pad, and assumed that they primarily help with shoulder discomfort which is not my issue. I will not use a lead sled, In my opinion they are pointless because the point of impact shifts, they do not replicate field positions, and they are very hard on stocks. I have heard positive things about the Edwards recoil reducers, but I cant install one in this rifle because of the cartridge trap in butt.

I know of a local hunter who hunted/hunts in Africa that did experience a brain injury with symptoms similar to a stroke attributed to firing big rifles, I am uncertain of the cartridge but from talking with his friend assumed it was something a lot bigger than a 458 Winchester. Last year I did fire one round from my PHs Krieghoff 500 NE, killing a zebra, and did not notice any issues.

I would welcome all thoughts, anecdotes, first hand accounts, etc dealing with injuries from recoil or ways to mitigate the risk. I really want to shoot and hunt with this rifle, but not at the expense of my health.
I haven't read through all seven pages but I might suggest you "lighten the load" in that rifle. Clearly you have a work of art you've acquired and have your heart set on hunting Africa with it. Nothing wrong with that. You're putting a fair bit of gas behind a very heavy bullet, both of which I question are needed for your chosen objectives. That recipe is bound to give you some shock waves. I don't hunt elephant but have shot a few buffalo. Last week I killed a cow buffalo at 110 meters with Barnes TSX 400 gr 404 Jeffery (caliber .423) at ~2200 fps muzzle velocity. Next day I took a giraffe at 136 meters with same ammo. Both animals shot through heart and lungs went less than forty yards before collapsing. Both bullets recovered just inside skin of opposite side. The recoil is at or a bit above my tolerance threshold. Giraffe isn't as big as an elephant but it's pretty damn big. I was astonished at the performance of that cartridge.

I suspect 400 gr out of your 458 will do the job and not punch you nearly as hard. Maybe even lighter? Don't push the envelope with gas. The lighter bullet will accelerate more with less powder and should give more penetration. The sheer diameter of that bullet should provide an adequate wound channel even if you opt to stick with solids. I think you have a lot of room to adjust your loads before messing with stock, adding weight, etc. Good luck.
 
It takes no longer to step your left (or right) foot forward than it does to raise the firearm when a bird flushes. As you are raising the gun the foot is moving forward. It’s not two movements.

If the bird flushes and you are in an odd position (maybe the bird is even behind you) and you have to swing and shoot, so be it. that’s Hunting not clay shooting.

Last September a woodcock got up just in front of me in very thick swampy habitat. The bird flew straight at me and I swung 180 without time to move my feet and shot it behind me. So no foot forward. But it’s also not needed for recoil with 2.5” 20 gauge.
View attachment 787148
You're right. However, you are assuming that the environment allows for a step forward as easy as raising the gun. That is rarely the case where I hunt pheasants. I'm more often than not on uneven ground or in heavy cover (e.g. cattails). And when hunting behind a flushing dog the unknown variable increases. Hunter may be prepared to shoot if he recognizes his dog is "birdy" but still doesn't know when or sometimes where the bird will erupt. Can I reset my footing in time? Maybe ... maybe not. My Lab and Fr Britt are excellent pointers so I sometimes have the opportunity to approach them stepping with left foot forward and dragging right foot to it (I shoot right handed). But otherwise more often than not I'm shooting in whatever position without moving my feet ... because if I do I might lose my footing.

I think if I was a PH backing up a client, and had to clean up a wounded buffalo or elephant with a cannon, I would definitely be advancing drop-step left foot forward.
 
Yes, and you’re shooting a semi auto bird gun. Not a heavy recoiling gun.

And I agree while bird hunting you’re not always able to get that perfect form. that’s what makes it challenging and fun.
 
Getting personal,huh? I must write bad english.

It was my neck and shoulders / bad muffler fit that gave me problems last week. I tried to point that out but obviously failed. I said it was not recoil.

You do not know me or my abilities so please cut that. Predicting bad health and wimpy future to other shooters is just... I did not expect that here. I thought this was a big gun board.

I shoot 45-70 Marlins (got three) weekly with 400 grainers @ 1900, much lighter rifles than the Merkel. Zero problems since the 90's. I shoot 300 WM, 375 H&H,338 Lapua etc long range hi power and I like it.

That 500 S&W was just an example of a crazy load AND A BRAKE, nobody wants to shoot a third round of those. With reasonable loads, a 500 S&W can be much nicer than a 44 mag.

It's not the recoil, it's the pressure wave from that short gun with a brake.

I shoot and practise with powerful guns because I like to be able to keep shooting them. When you stop practising your recoil tolerance goes down. During the summer I shoot every day. 22's as well.

Why are people so scared of their guns? Using milder practise loads helps a lot. I mentioned "Women's loads" with pics and data. No good? Hell there's even a 22 on the table in the pic.

I also practise with light bows so I can keep shooting the heavy ones. I guess I'll get attacked for that,too.

I tried to be nice, I did not expect
Recoil Police to hit my person.

I'm out of here.
@petander Ok —— OK, I should’ve known my “wording” risked offending you, because saying (or even implying) that a Man can’t handle Recoil is worse then calling his Wife “Ugly” or his Kids “stupid”….I’m lucky we’re Not in a Bar or my guess is you’d be trying to kick-my-teeth-out. So, let me try to redeem myself: You can “handle” as much recoil as any person ever Born and MORE then ME. My point (poorly written and badly communicated) was this: WHY put yourself thru that? If you already Know you CAN “take it” - then that fact is already “proven”. Maybe move down to a more pleasant round to shoot —- Not because you can’t handle it….but because you enjoy other things more. Hope you stay on this AH Forum - lots of good info here and good guys with knowledge (and writing skills) that Far exceeds mine.
 
It takes no longer to step your left (or right) foot forward than it does to raise the firearm when a bird flushes. As you are raising the gun the foot is moving forward. It’s not two movements.

If the bird flushes and you are in an odd position (maybe the bird is even behind you) and you have to swing and shoot, so be it. that’s Hunting not clay shooting.

Last September a woodcock got up just in front of me in very thick swampy habitat. The bird flew straight at me and I swung 180 without time to move my feet and shot it behind me. So no foot forward. But it’s also not needed for recoil with 2.5” 20 gauge.
View attachment 787148
@Altitude sickness - Agree with you, that’s just basic shotgun shooting form and should be ingrained…good shooters rarely talk about “how good” they are.
 
@petander Ok —— OK, I should’ve known my “wording” risked offending you, because saying (or even implying) that a Man can’t handle Recoil is worse then calling his Wife “Ugly” or his Kids “stupid”….I’m lucky we’re Not in a Bar or my guess is you’d be trying to kick-my-teeth-out. So, let me try to redeem myself: You can “handle” as much recoil as any person ever Born and MORE then ME. My point (poorly written and badly communicated) was this: WHY put yourself thru that? If you already Know you CAN “take it” - then that fact is already “proven”. Maybe move down to a more pleasant round to shoot —- Not because you can’t handle it….but because you enjoy other things more. Hope you stay on this AH Forum - lots of good info here and good guys with knowledge (and writing skills) that Far exceeds mine.
@petander consider yourself honored. That's about as close to an apology as I've seen from this guy. :D :D Kidding aside, I'm frequently the recipient of Hank's caustic demeanor. I don't believe he intended to be malicious. Hang in there. But first ... Get off my lawn!
 
I have recently purchased a very nice .458 WM ( https://www.africahunting.com/threads/custom-rifle-ranch-458-win-mag.90030/ ) , and have been shooting it a bit zeroing iron sights that I installed. I love the rifle, and feel it is built correctly for a big bore. It has a wide comb that rises slightly to the rear, a wide butt, weighted 10 pounds with scope, a bit over 9 without scope. LOP is correct for me as far as I can tell (matches most every other rifle I shoot). I shoot it well, and can shoot it comfortably EXCEPT that I get a mild headache after a few rounds that lingers for days. It is really ruining my fun. I am a bit worried about long term health effects of shooting it. I have only shot it from the standing position off a barricade or sticks, not from bench. I am preparing for a 2026 buff and elephant hunt, shooting a 450 grain bullet at a chronoed 2310 FPS, with a recoil energy of 64 ft/lbs. Not insignificant, but not nearly as heavy as some of the real big boys. I have been shooting it with four cartridges in trap in buttstock, so weight is about 10 pounds without scope. I am probably an average sized 50 year old, 5' 11" 170 pounds.

The stock is not smacking my cheek, my shoulder doesn't have any issues, it seems the headache is caused by the recoil energy delivered causing rapid skull movement. I have seen CTE, retina detachment, etc mentioned in discussing big bore rifles, but nothing detailed or really much in the way of avoiding it. I imagine it is possible that I have some sort of medical condition that would exacerbate this problem, but I have had brain scans in the past which showed no issues. The last such scan was following a concussion a few years back, maybe prior concussions are to blame in the cumulative effect.

So what do the big bore experts here say ? Is this just something that goes with the territory with big rifles ? Am I an outlier in getting headaches from recoil ? What can I do to avoid this issue other than being satisfied with shooting and hunting with my 375s ? Running numbers in a recoil calculator shows that if the rifle weighs two pounds more, 12 pounds, the recoil energy drops to about 53 ft/lbs, a fair reduction. I have prepared 4 cartridges filled with lead that weigh nearly a pound to put in buttstock while shooting. I have considered adding a tungsten weight inletted under the barrel in forearm to add another pound. This would give me a 12 pound rifle for practicing, and a bit over 11 while hunting with actual cartridges in buttstock. Would a strap on wearable pad help with this aspect of the effects of recoil ? I have never used a shoulder pad, and assumed that they primarily help with shoulder discomfort which is not my issue. I will not use a lead sled, In my opinion they are pointless because the point of impact shifts, they do not replicate field positions, and they are very hard on stocks. I have heard positive things about the Edwards recoil reducers, but I cant install one in this rifle because of the cartridge trap in butt.

I know of a local hunter who hunted/hunts in Africa that did experience a brain injury with symptoms similar to a stroke attributed to firing big rifles, I am uncertain of the cartridge but from talking with his friend assumed it was something a lot bigger than a 458 Winchester. Last year I did fire one round from my PHs Krieghoff 500 NE, killing a zebra, and did not notice any issues.

I would welcome all thoughts, anecdotes, first hand accounts, etc dealing with injuries from recoil or ways to mitigate the risk. I really want to shoot and hunt with this rifle, but not at the expense of my health.
Your not getting tbis from shooting a rifle.
Or strokes.
Maybe you should try to have your PCP get you an appointment with a neurologist. Might as well go right to the top of the mountain. If you’re lucky, you might get an appointment by 2026.
It also could be something completely unrelated and worth checking out.
 
FWIW I found out what caused my "concussion" -feel.

I went shooting today and decided to practise with the scope & timer. I noticed right away that my new baseball cap brim gets hit by the huge Leupold eyepiece,especially when I am reaching for the scope on the bench like I did the other day with a "concussion effect". That brim is hard. So I actually got hit on my forehead -and the mufflers moved with the hat,too. Not very pleasant.

Now,where can I buy a baseball cap with a brim pointing backwards? I also want a more compact scope,if any...

IMG-20260824-140620-948-2.jpg
 
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Rather than give up the gun or dropping down to .375, try to borrow a suppressed .458 and see what you think. I only have a .416, but I’d rather shoot it suppressed than give it up.
 
FWIW I found out what caused my "concussion" -feel.

I went shooting today and decided to practise with the scope & timer. I noticed right away that my new baseball cap brim gets hit by the huge Leupold eyepiece,especially when I am reaching for the scope on the bench like I did the other day with a "concussion effect". That brim is hard. So I actually got hit on my forehead -and the mufflers moved with the hat,too. Not very pleasant.

Now,where can I buy a baseball cap with a brim pointing backwards? I also want a more compact scope,if any...

IMG-20260824-140620-948-2.jpg
Dangit!

Here I thought I was gonna see another rifle come up for sale cheap. :LOL:
 
It takes no longer to step your left (or right) foot forward than it does to raise the firearm when a bird flushes. As you are raising the gun the foot is moving forward. It’s not two movements.

If the bird flushes and you are in an odd position (maybe the bird is even behind you) and you have to swing and shoot, so be it. that’s Hunting not clay shooting.

Last September a woodcock got up just in front of me in very thick swampy habitat. The bird flew straight at me and I swung 180 without time to move my feet and shot it behind me. So no foot forward. But it’s also not needed for recoil with 2.5” 20 gauge.
View attachment 787148
2 1/2 at 20 gauge…. Very cool old guns, but what a bee-otch getting ammo, unless I’m missing something. Seems like there are more sources than just RST for 2 1/2 at 12 gauge. Guess I should just be glad someone’s at least selling it.
 
FWIW I found out what caused my "concussion" -feel.

I went shooting today and decided to practise with the scope & timer. I noticed right away that my new baseball cap brim gets hit by the huge Leupold eyepiece,especially when I am reaching for the scope on the bench like I did the other day with a "concussion effect". That brim is hard. So I actually got hit on my forehead -and the mufflers moved with the hat,too. Not very pleasant.

Now,where can I buy a baseball cap with a brim pointing backwards? I also want a more compact scope,if any...

IMG-20260824-140620-948-2.jpg
Does that scope have 30mm or 1" tube? How is eye relief? If you close your eyes, throw gun to shoulder, then open, do you instantly have full field of view?
 
I have had my brain housing group rocked way too many times and had spinal injuries that required a lot of hardware and cadaver bones. (Not service related. :ROFLMAO: ) I had to move a lot of guns that gave me headaches after a few shots. It seemed what caused the migraines had as much to do with the gun as the recoil. Rigby Big Game in 416 (with real recoil pad added) no problems. Browning A Bolt in 30-06 or 300 win mag, Merkel 500 NE, VC 450-400 NE? Sick for the rest of the day.

I have found adding a quality recoil pad (why don't they come that way??) and not trying to get that "extra velocity" goes a long way to reducing felt recoil. 458 is a great cartridge to load 45-70 level practice loads. 350gr cast or Hornady bullets and some 3031 and you have a great, mild load for everything except dangerous game.

I love to shoot and work up my own loads almost as much as I love to hunt. If a gun is hurting me for what ever reason, I correct the issue if possible or send it down the road.

Safe shooting
 
2 1/2 at 20 gauge…. Very cool old guns, but what a bee-otch getting ammo, unless I’m missing something. Seems like there are more sources than just RST for 2 1/2 at 12 gauge. Guess I should just be glad someone’s at least selling it.
You can trim and then reload your own. Especially with a 20---hulls can be picked up at any clay range.
 

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migrabill wrote on Surgeon1's profile.
Be careful of this Wolfen guy. 2 messages. Both trying to sell something. He PM'ed me trying to sell something and he PM'ed my friend on here trying to sell something. Fishy.
autofire wrote on Dr Ray's profile.
Hi Dr. Ray, I will be in Cooktown from Oct 16 to Oct 23 fishing Lizard Island Black Marlin Tournament.

I have several "slack" days after fishing before I head for stay in Sydney and Fiji.

Do you have any recommendations for 1 or 2 day hunt near Cooktown?

I've hunted both DG and PG in 4 different countries in Africa.
Thank you,
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