Current base price and lead time for different brand double rifles?

Respectfully, nobody of note will build you a 470NE + 7x57. The only maker of quality that will make you a 470NE and 20 gauge I know of is Heym. The second set of shotgun barrels in 20 gauge is a roughly $10k upgrade. Their doubles are around $35k-$38k at present and a three year wait.

The problem is that a 470NE action is roughly the same size as a 20 gauge action, so the barrels can line up nicely. A 7x57 is so, so much smaller the 7x57 barrels would have to be over 10lbs to be thick enough to line up with the frame of a 470NE, that’s why one has never been made by any credible builder.

What you may want is a 7x65R or 7x57R double rifle with a second set of 375HH or 375 Flanged barrels. Heym will make that. Then you’d want a separate Heym in 470NE and 20 gauge. The 470NE frame would also be compatible with a barrel set in 450NE, 450/400, 375HH, 375 Flanged, 9.3x74R, or 500NE.

Keep in mind, a brand new double rifle will be made to regulate with a particular brand and model of ammunition. You need to buy a lifetime supply of that exact ammo before it goes obsolete, otherwise your brand new double rifle is nothing but a Wall hanger. When you buy a used double rifle, you can judge its regulation with a published custom load and demand proof via a photo of a test target. Thus, a used double rifle is judged by its regulation with a known-available handload and it can be reproduced indefinitely if the powder and bullet type is a common one to the market. (E.g. swift a-frame, hornady DGS / DGx)

In short, a new double rifle comes with some hazards and potential effort a used one does not come with. A used one comes with tangible proof of accuracy with a load you can source perpetually, a new one does not. A new one is justified if you want custom specs exactly to your preferences and you’re willing to pay the price tag and have the patience.
Lot of wisdom packed into what he’s saying and he could have gone on another two pages about it.

I literally stumbled across my .470 and it’s worked out well for me, my first ever African animal was a tuskless at 12 paces with a double.

My .470 kicks much less than the .458’s I’ve shot particularly because it’s appropriately weighted at 10lbs 14oz with red dot and the recoil reducers in the stock & Kickeez recoil pad; but also because of the custom load it was regulated with that uses IMR3031 powder.

My rifle shoots this custom load amazingly- my avatar pic is a R&L group at 50yds with iron sights but will also shoot Hornady factory ammo to the same point of impact and give 1” groups.

The Hornady factory loads have MUCH more recoil and listen to what @rookhaw said about ammo - you better buy loads of it and store it airtight and climate controlled if you want it to last for generations.

Also consider if your not used to a double your probably going to need 200+ rounds of ammo to get proficient, or at least I did.

Now Hornady .470 is nearly $300 per 20, but I can load full power practice loads with old stock Hornady unbonded bullets for about $50 per 20, Woodleigh RNSN for $85 per 20 and Hydro solids for $150 per 20.

But like ammo if you load your ammo, you need to buy components in mass and same lot# to ensure consistency, when I bought my .470ne and tested the load data, I immediately bought an 8lbs jug of IMR3031, a 1,000ct brick of primers dedicated solely to the .470, 500 Woodleigh RNSN & 500 Hornady DGX.

May sound like a lot but that 8lbs of powder is enough for 700rnds and it’s half empty.
 
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Respectfully, nobody of note will build you a 470NE + 7x57. The only maker of quality that will make you a 470NE and 20 gauge I know of is Heym. The second set of shotgun barrels in 20 gauge is a roughly $10k upgrade. Their doubles are around $35k-$38k at present and a three year wait.

The problem is that a 470NE action is roughly the same size as a 20 gauge action, so the barrels can line up nicely. A 7x57 is so, so much smaller the 7x57 barrels would have to be over 10lbs to be thick enough to line up with the frame of a 470NE, that’s why one has never been made by any credible builder.

What you may want is a 7x65R or 7x57R double rifle with a second set of 375HH or 375 Flanged barrels. Heym will make that. Then you’d want a separate Heym in 470NE and 20 gauge. The 470NE frame would also be compatible with a barrel set in 450NE, 450/400, 375HH, 375 Flanged, 9.3x74R, or 500NE.

Keep in mind, a brand new double rifle will be made to regulate with a particular brand and model of ammunition. You need to buy a lifetime supply of that exact ammo before it goes obsolete, otherwise your brand new double rifle is nothing but a Wall hanger. When you buy a used double rifle, you can judge its regulation with a published custom load and demand proof via a photo of a test target. Thus, a used double rifle is judged by its regulation with a known-available handload and it can be reproduced indefinitely if the powder and bullet type is a common one to the market. (E.g. swift a-frame, hornady DGS / DGx)

In short, a new double rifle comes with some hazards and potential effort a used one does not come with. A used one comes with tangible proof of accuracy with a load you can source perpetually, a new one does not. A new one is justified if you want custom specs exactly to your preferences and you’re willing to pay the price tag and have the patience.
Isn’t it possible to have the rifle re regulated by a competent smith such as JJ? I understand it isn’t the best and the original load would be preferred but it wouldn’t really be relegated to “wall hanger” status if so correct?
 
Isn’t it possible to have the rifle re regulated by a competent smith such as JJ? I understand it isn’t the best and the original load would be preferred but it wouldn’t really be relegated to “wall hanger” status if so correct?

You’re 100% correct. Two ways to regulate a rifle, one is extremely, extremely expensive where the barrels are split, a new regulating wedge is made, it is shot with a particular ammo, the wedge is moved until regulation is achieved, it is braised in, polished, and reblued. The other is building a custom load that works with the barrels as they exist. On this forum when we talk about regulation, we usually mean regulating a load to a rifle in the latter sense.

But there are very few people that can expertly develop loads that regulate well. Also, while a Heym or Shikari may leave the factory with “pretty good” regulation, it isn’t always spectacular. A custom load can be spectacular. I like the de-risking of a used double rifle because I can shop around looking at 50 of them until I find one that has demonstrable accuracy with a custom load before I buy it.

After waiting 2-4 years for a bespoke double rifle, it’s a real pain in the butt to then send it away to have a regulating load developed. Some people do it themselves, but many lack the precision or the recoil tolerance to do it well.

Many times over the last 30 years double rifles have become wall hangers due to factory ammo changes, it’s a virtual certainty it will happen to any double rifle given enough time. Federal changed their powders 3x and their bullets about 10 times in that time period. Kynoch and Wolfgang Romey ceased operations.

I’m not sure if Heym or Rigby would honor the request, but the ideal would be to specify a custom load for regulation of a brand new rifle at the factory so you can just duplicate it in perpetuity thereafter. (Or have a custom hand loader duplicate them for you through mail order) A friend on this forum ordered a bespoke Westley Richards and they indeed agreed to regulate the rifle using the buyer’s preferred recipe.
 
My personal bias having owned a heavy double rifle, a light double rifle and many fine double shotguns- if you just want a 3 barrel set go ahead and find a way to make it happen. I would way rather have a purpose built heavy rifle, a purpose built light rifle and a purpose built double shotgun. Each would be perfect for its individual purpose. Unless you and your son already own/shoot and love double rifles you could get a pair of Rigby or Parkwest bolt guns and match them with a fine shotgun. Would be in your price range and honestly you would have arguably a far better and more versatile set but still be a legacy set to be proud of. Ive done this with my three kids but Id rather spend the money on hunting so they each got a Model 70 in 30-06, a Model 70 safari express in 416rm and the double shotgun of their choice. Doing it that way I gave 3 kids guns they could hunt anything anywhere and still had enough left over for an international hunt and came in under your budget.
 
Do you figure a 450/400 or 500 NE is better than a 470? I picked 470 because I know it has easily accessible factory ammunition.
.500 NE is better for DG.
I went the same route and got a set of scoped .450/400 barrels for my .500 Shikari as my PG gun. Did not want a set of shotgun barrels as the action itself weighs more than most 20ga SxS shotguns.
 
Isn’t it possible to have the rifle re regulated by a competent smith such as JJ? I understand it isn’t the best and the original load would be preferred but it wouldn’t really be relegated to “wall hanger” status if so correct?
I believe it was with reference to factory ammo. If Hornady ceases to produce it can be re regulated with a different handload but you will still need the components specially brass and bullets.
Secondly 470 ammo is available in Africa should your ammo doesn’t make it for any reason.
 
Get a separate 20 gauge - it'll be cheaper and you won't have to worry about a $50k gun will shooting pigeons...
 
All DG or for Ele ? What are your thoughts?
In my view, despite those that think .375 is the holy grail and no one needs bigger, for all DG. Here is a pic of what happens when a 570 grain soft enters a buffalo.

Entrance.
full


Wound channel

full
 
In my view, despite those that think .375 is the holy grail and no one needs bigger, for all DG. Here is a pic of what happens when a 570 grain soft enters a buffalo.

Entrance.
full


Wound channel

full
No doubt, bigger is better but in comparison to a 500 grain by how much? Honestly I dont know and would like to know.
 
.450/400 NE 3”
.303 British
20 Gauge 3” .

9.3x74R
.30-30 Winchester
28 Gauge .
 
I’ve gotten a couple different quotes from various manufacturers and spare barrels are typically about 40% the cost of the gun. Sometimes a little less but sometimes they can cost 50-60% of the completed gun it varies by manufacturer and what you have some to them.

Having owned a 470/375 combo that’s probably the direction I’d lean, though I’m developing a real soft spot for the 450NE (despite ammo issues) and again pairing with a scoped 375 Flange would be how I’d lean. Spare 20ga shotgun barrels would be a great addition for cheaper practice, but as others have pointed out the weight of the gun would be self defeating for most of my hunting/shooting applications. Is $10-15k on them worth the practice or could I just spend that on ammo/components?

A 470/375 or 450/375 + dedicated light PG rifle seems like the best solution to me. Presently my normal battery looks like a double + scoped 375 bolt action + scoped PG bolt action. I often travel with just the first 2 utilizing my scoped 375 as the PG rifle.
 
I’ve gotten a couple different quotes from various manufacturers and spare barrels are typically about 40% the cost of the gun. Sometimes a little less but sometimes they can cost 50-60% of the completed gun it varies by manufacturer and what you have some to them.

Having owned a 470/375 combo that’s probably the direction I’d lean, though I’m developing a real soft spot for the 450NE (despite ammo issues) and again pairing with a scoped 375 Flange would be how I’d lean. Spare 20ga shotgun barrels would be a great addition for cheaper practice, but as others have pointed out the weight of the gun would be self defeating for most of my hunting/shooting applications. Is $10-15k on them worth the practice or could I just spend that on ammo/components?

A 470/375 or 450/375 + dedicated light PG rifle seems like the best solution to me. Presently my normal battery looks like a double + scoped 375 bolt action + scoped PG bolt action. I often travel with just the first 2 utilizing my scoped 375 as the PG rifle.
Thank you for the information, the fellow I’m going to go with is at $4000 for a set of 20 gauge barrels with an additional forend. $6000 for a set of another rifled barrels, again with an additional forend, quarter rib, iron sights, etc. I decided on 470, 9.3x74r and 20 gauge. I was going to go 375 flanged instead of 9.3x74r but components seem a lot harder to get and practically zero factory ammo seems available. At those prices I think it would be silly not to try the extra barrel sets. I’m sending my deposit next week, now the 26 months couldn’t come any faster.
 
I was going to go 375 flanged instead of 9.3x74r but components seem a lot harder to get and practically zero factory ammo seems available.
When I ordered my 9.3x74R double from Heym that was exactly the reason I chose that caliber. No 375 flanged ammo available.
 
Thank you for the information, the fellow I’m going to go with is at $4000 for a set of 20 gauge barrels with an additional forend. $6000 for a set of another rifled barrels, again with an additional forend, quarter rib, iron sights, etc. I decided on 470, 9.3x74r and 20 gauge. I was going to go 375 flanged instead of 9.3x74r but components seem a lot harder to get and practically zero factory ammo seems available. At those prices I think it would be silly not to try the extra barrel sets. I’m sending my deposit next week, now the 26 months couldn’t come any faster.
Good luck, can’t wait to see the finished product and hear about your first hunt with it. I completely understand the challenges of 375 Flange and know that’s why many go 9.3 or even 375 H&H.

Are you going ejectors or extractors? What grade wood? Coin finish or CCH? Engraved? Share some more details with us.
 
.

Google www.Ziegenhahn.de for the fun of it, That would be an heirloom double made bespoke in Germany & not a factory build! He would likely be in your budget but with just the one set of barrels.

I recently called on him & he was having a 600 nitro prooved bound for Texas!


-
 
Good luck, can’t wait to see the finished product and hear about your first hunt with it. I completely understand the challenges of 375 Flange and know that’s why many go 9.3 or even 375 H&H.

Are you going ejectors or extractors? What grade wood? Coin finish or CCH? Engraved? Share some more details with us.
I am going with Bailey Bradshaw out of Texas. He makes a double of his own design, he calls it a Rising block.

Technically it is extractors but if you cycle the lever with swiftness/force like you would in a hunting situation it launches the brass over your shoulder, I’m pretty excited about it as at the range it’s simple extractors and my brass won’t get launched but in “showtime” it will get launched and easy for quick reloads.

I’m going to go exhibition or damn close grade wood, I get to hand select my blank from his dealer in Dallas. CCH and going to go with full English scroll with some gold inlays initials and bordering.

I would’ve gone 375 H&H but his double design requires a rim, so that’s why 9.3x74r is my next best option.

His website if you are interested: https://bradshawgunandrifle.com/rising-block-double-rifle

Videos on his YouTube showcasing one of his doubles in 500NE





Very nice guy and have talked to him extensively this last few days, and he must have a lot of patience answering my numerous questions lol.
 
Just my 2 cents but an extra set of shotgun barrels doesn’t make sense to me. The stocks should be different for a shotgun. No cheek piece for sure and you can buy a nice double for the 10k you’d spend on a set of barrels.

Make rifles rifles and shotguns shotguns.
 
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