General Double Care and Cleaning

Reading through all the varied opinions in the trending thread about whether we are cleaning our rifles to death, just highlighted how ignorant I am as to the of the special needs and proper care of doubles. This was further highlighted when I finally got to go out and shoot my new-to-me Heym 470 88b and discovered a firing pin issue. If a bolt gun, I could have quickly removed and disassembled the bolt, replaced whatever part, on the double, I was left scratching my head until I could get pictures to JJ and asked what it was and how it might have occurred with the first shot or somehow slipped through his regulation and strip/clean. Regardless, back to dreaming about shooting it more than flinging lead as it heads back to Oklahoma.

Having shot various bench rest and more f-class compeitions over the years, I’m pretty dialed into my various and evolving cleaning processes for hunting and comp rifles. I am, however, not even close to comfortable for the double. Being a huge advocate of quality, custom bore guides, I’m even at a loss if folks even mess with them on their doubles. Not talking about a quick patch or bore-snake at the end of a dusty or rainy hunting day, but end of the season or after many, many rounds, when time to actually clean the barrels. Folks prefer to clean assembled, or disassembled? Assuming the later.

What parts of the mating surfaces do folks grease vs oil? What oils have folks found best to use vs. avoid since whatever goes into the action isn’t easily coming out it would seem until needs for a full strip and clean. Can envision gumming something of legitimate concern…and while every bottle seems to advertise it will not gum up, I remain suspicious.

On this little 450/400, I’ll likely continue shooting the Hornady ammo for now (at least until I decide whether I’ll keep it or not), but in the 470 I have several boxes of Barnes and will likely shoot TSX for buffalo, so will need to address copper more than I would with other bullet choices. I am curious how much metal fouling fold see from the bronze mono solids like CEB. Even though I only got to shoot 4 rounds through the 470, it still put a big smile on the face and enjoyed it immensely. I can see this little 450/400 getting neglected or let go once the 470 returns.

Anyway, appreciate and respect the information folks share here, so would enjoy hearing how you fine gents prefer to care for your doubles. Including a little eye candy. When I had to pack the 470 up to return south, took a few photos to compare proportions and such.

Cheers,
Will

Very nice

Wildwillalaska said:

Reading through all the varied opinions in the trending thread about whether we are cleaning our rifles to death, just highlighted how ignorant I am as to the of the special needs and proper care of doubles. This was further highlighted when I finally got to go out and shoot my new-to-me Heym 470 88b and discovered a firing pin issue. If a bolt gun, I could have quickly removed and disassembled the bolt, replaced whatever part, on the double, I was left scratching my head until I could get pictures to JJ and asked what it was and how it might have occurred with the first shot or somehow slipped through his regulation and strip/clean. Regardless, back to dreaming about shooting it more than flinging lead as it heads back to Oklahoma.

Having shot various bench rest and more f-class compeitions over the years, I’m pretty dialed into my various and evolving cleaning processes for hunting and comp rifles. I am, however, not even close to comfortable for the double. Being a huge advocate of quality, custom bore guides, I’m even at a loss if folks even mess with them on their doubles. Not talking about a quick patch or bore-snake at the end of a dusty or rainy hunting day, but end of the season or after many, many rounds, when time to actually clean the barrels. Folks prefer to clean assembled, or disassembled? Assuming the later.

What parts of the mating surfaces do folks grease vs oil? What oils have folks found best to use vs. avoid since whatever goes into the action isn’t easily coming out it would seem until needs for a full strip and clean. Can envision gumming something of legitimate concern…and while every bottle seems to advertise it will not gum up, I remain suspicious.

On this little 450/400, I’ll likely continue shooting the Hornady ammo for now (at least until I decide whether I’ll keep it or not), but in the 470 I have several boxes of Barnes and will likely shoot TSX for buffalo, so will need to address copper more than I would with other bullet choices. I am curious how much metal fouling fold see from the bronze mono solids like CEB. Even though I only got to shoot 4 rounds through the 470, it still put a big smile on the face and enjoyed it immensely. I can see this little 450/400 getting neglected or let go once the 470 returns.

Anyway, appreciate and respect the information folks share here, so would enjoy hearing how you fine gents prefer to care for your doubles. Including a little eye candy. When I had to pack the 470 up to return south, took a few photos to compare proportions and such.

Cheers,
WillView attachment 711008View attachment 711009

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First beautiful guns!!! Congratulations!!! I treat my DRs like my bolt actions. Just bore patches even at end of season for carbon not copper unless regulation/accuracy changes. Yes I disassemble to clean. The only thing I do different is a slight application of gun grease to the hinge where the barrels connect

Wildwillalaska said:

What parts of the mating surfaces do folks grease vs oil? What oils have folks found best to use vs. avoid since whatever goes into the action isn’t easily coming out it would seem until needs for a full strip and clean. Can envision gumming something of legitimate concern…and while every bottle seems to advertise it will not gum up, I remain suspicious.

Click to expand...

I've always applied lube in the same manner and locations as with a SxS shotgun. Not sure why it would be any different with a SxS rifle.

Very fine doubles there, well done.

I think that on doubles what is not exposed should not be messed with. leave that to the experts, but for sure get them to service the action at some interval.
I am a great believer in conditioning moving metal surfaces with moly paste, which contains millions of micro spheres, like ball bearings, that fill all the irregularities and smooth the contact surfaces. I do this with new or old equipment, like fishing reels and airguns. The secret is to apply it very sparingly to a de-greased surfaces; it is not a lubricant but a surface conditioner.
However on new surfaces there is a step before that. Machined surfaces, even precision ground ones are actually quite rough viewed under a microscope, and a degree of flattening out of the peaks is in order. I had the great privilege of obtaining a brand new double rifle and there are some pointers I learned that may be of use. The action is stiff and just like a car needs to be 'run-in', so does a double. It comes from the factory greased, but I took the action apart and cleaned off all the mating surfaces I could see, being the hinge pin and it's cup and the under lockup mating surfaces. Then apply a very small amount of light sewing machine oil evenly everywhere, and work the action over and over, hundreds of times. This will smooth out the high points, not remove metal. On my Heym I would guess that this took at least a thousand cycles over several days and it eased up gradually. I have heard of people advocating using grinding paste and I can think of nothing worse. That is akin to accerated wear!
Once surfaces are run in, clean off thoroughly, degrease and thoroughly rub in a very small amount of moly paste. Re-assemble and work the action a few dozen times which spreads the paste and fills in all the nooks and crannies. Finally aplly a small amount of light lubricating grease and re-assemble and re-work.

After a shoot I put a brass brush through just three or fout times, followed by the cleaning mop and then the second mop with a very light trace of oil, hardly any at all.

For regular and ongoing lubrication on my Heym's hinge pin I prefer a tiny application of light oil. There is not much else to do but a wipe down of the parrels etc with a lightly oiled rag.

Right on. Thank y’all for the kind words and sharing your routines. I figured this would prove true, but hate to assume and better to just ask. The little 450/400 is still very, very stiff, but is smooth and mating together well I think.

Kevin Peacocke said:

Very fine doubles there, well done.

I think that on doubles what is not exposed should not be messed with. leave that to the experts, but for sure get them to service the action at some interval.
I am a great believer in conditioning moving metal surfaces with moly paste, which contains millions of micro spheres, like ball bearings, that fill all the irregularities and smooth the contact surfaces. I do this with new or old equipment, like fishing reels and airguns. The secret is to apply it very sparingly to a de-greased surfaces; it is not a lubricant but a surface conditioner.
However on new surfaces there is a step before that. Machined surfaces, even precision ground ones are actually quite rough viewed under a microscope, and a degree of flattening out of the peaks is in order. I had the great privilege of obtaining a brand new double rifle and there are some pointers I learned that may be of use. The action is stiff and just like a car needs to be 'run-in', so does a double. It comes from the factory greased, but I took the action apart and cleaned off all the mating surfaces I could see, being the hinge pin and it's cup and the under lockup mating surfaces. Then apply a very small amount of light sewing machine oil evenly everywhere, and work the action over and over, hundreds of times. This will smooth out the high points, not remove metal. On my Heym I would guess that this took at least a thousand cycles over several days and it eased up gradually. I have heard of people advocating using grinding paste and I can think of nothing worse. That is akin to accerated wear!
Once surfaces are run in, clean off thoroughly, degrease and thoroughly rub in a very small amount of moly paste. Re-assemble and work the action a few dozen times which spreads the paste and fills in all the nooks and crannies. Finally aplly a small amount of light lubricating grease and re-assemble and re-work.

After a shoot I put a brass brush through just three or fout times, followed by the cleaning mop and then the second mop with a very light trace of oil, hardly any at all.

For regular and ongoing lubrication on my Heym's hinge pin I prefer a tiny application of light oil. There is not much else to do but a wipe down of the parrels etc with a lightly oiled rag.

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Morning Kevin,

Which molypaste in RSa do you use for your guns? I'm keen to get same

thank you

Troubleshooter said:

I've always applied lube in the same manner and locations as with a SxS shotgun. Not sure why it would be any different with a SxS rifle.

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I've done the same, however my SxS shotgun is normally just used for a day and then cleaned. It is also normally used in winter (upland season) when it is rainy, so there is much less dust. During my elephant hunt I found that due to the dust, the action on my 89b became difficult to close. Going forward my idea is to grease the gun for range use, but rather just oil for hunting.

Not sure if that makes sense or someone has any better idea?

"dusting off" this thread from last year... I have heard on more than one podcast recently that you should clean the bores of double rifles more frequently (20ish rounds or so) and given the amount of powder they are burning, they need to be cleaned more often or it will negatively impact accuracy. I have now run 10-12 rounds of Barnes solids and 30 rounds of factory Hornady DGX through my 470 and, honestly it seems to be grouping better and regulating better than it did with the first several rounds. Maybe I'm just getting used to shooting it and doing better at my part of the equation, not sure. Is there any reason to clean the bores thoroughly at this point? Seems premature, especially since it is shooting so well, but I am new to the world of the double rifle. Thanks!

I try to keep things simple when it comes to cleaning. Under normal circumstances, I clean after about every 20 rounds mostly handloads.

Recently, I've been experimenting with different loads and tried using a little Dacron as part of the testing. One thing I noticed is that you can actually see little bits of white material coming out of the muzzle when the rifle is fired. I have no idea whether that's perfectly normal or something I should be concerned about.

I've also noticed that my double rifle seems to need more frequent cleaning than my bolt guns. After 20 rounds or so, there's noticeably more carbon fouling in the barrels compared to any of my bolt-action rifles.

For cleaning, I use either Hornady One Shot or Hoppe's No. 9 on the barrels. On the moving parts that bear against each other, I'll occasionally apply a little Krieghoff grease, then finish with Ballistol GunCer or their Multipurpose oil. For long-term storage, I've had good results with a very thin film of CorrosionX.

As for the wood, I simply polish it with a French-made stock oil. I can't remember the brand name, but it leaves a very nice, soft lustre.

Buckums said:

"dusting off" this thread from last year... I have heard on more than one podcast recently that you should clean the bores of double rifles more frequently (20ish rounds or so) and given the amount of powder they are burning, they need to be cleaned more often or it will negatively impact accuracy. I have now run 10-12 rounds of Barnes solids and 30 rounds of factory Hornady DGX through my 470 and, honestly it seems to be grouping better and regulating better than it did with the first several rounds. Maybe I'm just getting used to shooting it and doing better at my part of the equation, not sure. Is there any reason to clean the bores thoroughly at this point? Seems premature, especially since it is shooting so well, but I am new to the world of the double rifle. Thanks!

Click to expand...

When I first got my .470 I cleaned ALL the copper out of the barrels and made them spotlessly clean.....

Then I had to shoot 10 rounds through each barrel to get the groups to shrink back to normal; now I just swab the bore with Balistol.

I shoot pretty frequently and decent volume where there is no way I’m cleaning every 40-50 rounds. If shooting the rifle often, then I’d say I clean every 120-160 rounds, so 60-80 rounds per barrel maybe.

I did clean my last three Heym 89b rifles the first time with total of 20-30 rounds down range as they were new and unfired since regulation. Heym barrels, which someone around here said they also supply to Kreighoff too, have a bit of tooling marks. They are not mirror polished like a custom Kreiger or Bartlien barrel. They will therefore pick up copper fouling more rapidly, especially when new.

So while I don’t go through some formal breakin protocol as I might with a long range precision or tournament rifle, I did clean each of those rifles earlier and more frequently initially.