Wanted Farquaharson .500 Cal Rifle

[rigbymauser]

I have for many years wanted a 1897 Farquaharson in a .500cal. Preferred a Blackpowder express, but a nitro version would also do. Must have min 26" barrel, good strong rifling, not abused. Dents here & there is ok as it is the battlescares of history. Its ok if the finish isn`t original as I am not looking to buy a collectors piece.
It doesn`t have to be cased, full engraved.



Whats out there?..

 

[rookhawk]

Steve Barnett has a reworked one, new barrel by Rigby in 350 Gibbs which is a 35 cal bullet in a 303 case. Because it has been reworked its certainly not a collector gun anymore. They are asking $13,500 as a very pretty shooter.

Griffin & Howe have a very nice 500 Nitro Farquarson for sale right now for $35,000 that is in better condition, not rebarreled, etc.

 

[rookhawk]

While not a farquarson, there is a functional Westley Richards for sale at Pat McCabe’s in Texas for $3500. It’s crude. It’s worn. It would clean up a little. It’s in 500/450 1.5“ which I’d never heard of but it appears its a shortened Martini Henry cartridge.

 

[rigbymauser]

There is a Woodward .577Nitro in near mint condition on GI. I have been tempted, but looking for the .500cal as I have reloadingtools, mold etc for this caliber.

In regards to the Farky at Griffin & Howe its an ok gun, but I think its a bit overpriced. Since there is only THAT one it is ofcouse difficult to compare it with others....however I am thinking if I were to sell it again I would might be lucky to get $11-12000 for it....IF I was lucky. I check prices on regular basis. There if no real movement in english guns even though they still appeal to many. I know of a few who has top dollar items they want to sell, but they have taken them of the marked for a better time(if they live to see it).

 

[rigbymauser]

There is a Woodward .577Nitro in near mint condition on GI. I have been tempted, but looking for the .500cal as I have reloadingtools, mold etc for this caliber.

In regards to the Farky at Griffin & Howe its an ok gun, but I think its a bit overpriced. Since there is only THAT one it is ofcouse difficult to compare it with others....however I am thinking if I were to sell it again I would might be lucky to get $11-12000 for it....IF I was lucky. I check prices on regular basis. There if no real movement in english guns even though they still appeal to many. I know of a few who has top dollar items they want to sell, but they have taken them of the marked for a better time(if they live to see it).

Sorry.....a William Evans

William Evans 577 Single Shot

William Evans 577 Single Shot for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Huvius]

When you say, 1897 Farquharson, what do you mean exactly?
Pre 1898 antique classification?

Also, many use the name "Farquharson" as a generic name for many old English falling blocks, not just actual Farquharson actioned rifles. Some dealers even do that.

I have an Army & Navy 500 Nitro on a Webley 1902 action. I'd sell that.

 

[rookhawk]

When you say, 1897 Farquharson, what do you mean exactly?
Pre 1898 antique classification?

Also, many use the name "Farquharson" as a generic name for many old English falling blocks, not just actual Farquharson actioned rifles. Some dealers even do that.

I have an Army & Navy 500 Nitro on a Webley 1902 action. I'd sell that.

Pretty cool gun, @Huvius The University of Glasgow has the ledgers for Army Navy Cooperative Society Limited in the archives. For about 50 pounds sterling, they'll tell you who ordered your gun and when along with a picture of the ledger. They may even have the info on who built the gun (assumed Webley...but maybe not) which is always interesting.

If your gun could talk!

 

[krish]

Pretty cool gun, @Huvius The University of Glasgow has the ledgers for Army Navy Cooperative Society Limited in the archives. For about 50 pounds sterling, they'll tell you who ordered your gun and when along with a picture of the ledger. They may even have the info on who built the gun (assumed Webley...but maybe not) which is always interesting.

If your gun could talk!

What is the difference between Farquaharson and Ruger no1 falling block. ?
Krish

 

[Huvius]

The Farquharson was the original underlever falling block hammerless rifle patented by John Farquharson.
The first rifles were made by George Gibbs as he was the first to license the patent from Farquharson (or maybe he was a part owner of the patent).
The Ruger No.1 is visually similar but very different internally. It is said that Bill Ruger styled the No.1 after the Gibbs Farquharson but I think it mimics the Holland & Holland Woodward action of 1895 in profile anyway.

 

[rookhawk]

The Farquharson was the original underlever falling block hammerless rifle patented by John Farquharson.
The first rifles were made by George Gibbs as he was the first to license the patent from Farquharson (or maybe he was a part owner of the patent).
The Ruger No.1 is visually similar but very different internally. It is said that Bill Ruger styled the No.1 after the Gibbs Farquharson but I think it mimics the Holland & Holland Woodward action of 1895 in profile anyway.

To top off, they made about 1000 “real” Gibbs Farquarson rifles in history. Of those, if I recall correctly, 700 were target rifles for competition shooting and 300 were hunting rifles. (I may have that backwards)

They were the finest falling blocks ever made and they were very accurate. Add to that, they also made them in some of the bigger dangerous game calibers. 500NE being somewhat common.

Westley Richards, Greener, and Webley also made similar falling block single shots using different patents. Beautiful guns. I’ve seen them in everything from .303 British to .425 Westley Richards. Both full rifles and take-down models.

They are also somewhat of a bargain, relatively speaking. They sell for less than a double rifle of equal quality from the same makers.

Modern “Replicas” in the spirit of these guns include Ralf Martini guns, Dakota Model 10s, and Ruger #1s. They are beautiful, but they are not the same thing.

 

[Green Chile]

I suggest giving George at Champlin Firearms a call with what you're looking for. At a minimum, I guarantee he knows the location of at least one of them and the owner's info. Sometimes that's enough to make something happen.

 

[Huvius]

Rookhawk, I think your numbers are fairly close. As far as I know, of the 974 Gibbs Farquharsons, most were Match Rifles and what are known as Military Match Rifles or Military Breechloaders as they are also known. Probably 375-450 of the total are of these two categories.
The Sporting Rifles are more rare making up about 350 and the Rook Rifles around 200.
These estimates are explained in Winfer's excellent book on Gibbs single shots.
As far as I know, there weren't any originally chambered in 500NE. A few were in 500BPE though.
A couple 450/400NE rifles were made toward the end of the production run I believe.
The other nitro chamberings that I am aware of are 303 of course, 256 Dutch Mannlicher (6.5X53R), 280 Flanged Magnum and 360 No.2.
Unfortunately, all of the ledgers were lost in the German bombing of Bristol except the ledger of the last ten or so rifles.

Of note, is that Gibbs made Farquharson rifles in at least three action sizes. Rook rifle sized actions, medium actions and larger actions. I've never had a Rook action but have a 303 on the medium action and a 461 No.2 on the larger action. There was a gradual evolution in the action as time went on - consider the 974 were built over a period of 35yrs or so - 1875+/- to the last in 1910. Almost no two are exactly identical.
That is the shortcoming of the Ruger No.1 in my opinion - one action fits all from 218 Bee to 450NE!

 

[rookhawk]

Rookhawk, I think your numbers are fairly close. As far as I know, of the 974 Gibbs Farquharsons, most were Match Rifles and what are known as Military Match Rifles or Military Breechloaders as they are also known. Probably 375-450 of the total are of these two categories.
The Sporting Rifles are more rare making up about 350 and the Rook Rifles around 200.
These estimates are explained in Winfer's excellent book on Gibbs single shots.
As far as I know, there weren't any originally chambered in 500NE. A few were in 500BPE though.
A couple 450/400NE rifles were made toward the end of the production run I believe.
The other nitro chamberings that I am aware of are 303 of course, 256 Dutch Mannlicher (6.5X53R), 280 Flanged Magnum and 360 No.2.
Unfortunately, all of the ledgers were lost in the German bombing of Bristol except the ledger of the last ten or so rifles.

Of note, is that Gibbs made Farquharson rifles in at least three action sizes. Rook rifle sized actions, medium actions and larger actions. I've never had a Rook action but have a 303 on the medium action and a 461 No.2 on the larger action. There was a gradual evolution in the action as time went on - consider the 974 were built over a period of 35yrs or so - 1875+/- to the last in 1910. Almost no two are exactly identical.
That is the shortcoming of the Ruger No.1 in my opinion - one action fits all from 218 Bee to 450NE!

I’m grateful for your corrections of my ”napkin math“ facts as you are definitely an advanced collector. I have seen several in 500NE but I do not believe they were Gibbs-Farquarsons, later Nitro era guns. In my ignorance, they may have been one of the competing actions to Gibbs as well.

One more bird dog you can check in with would be David Powell, owner of Guns International. Just call their phone number and ask to speak with him. He is a fairly serious collector of British falling blocks and may have what you are looking for. He had a beautiful two barrel take down a few years ago on a Westley Richards patent action. The bigger gun was 425WR, I can’t remember the smaller but maybe 303 or 375HH. He didn’t want crazy money for it either, $11k-ish I believe. It looked darned good to my eyes as functional art.

 

[rigbymauser]

When you say, 1897 Farquharson, what do you mean exactly?
Pre 1898 antique classification?

Also, many use the name "Farquharson" as a generic name for many old English falling blocks, not just actual Farquharson actioned rifles. Some dealers even do that.

I have an Army & Navy 500 Nitro on a Webley 1902 action. I'd sell that.

Drop me a mail in regards to your Webley 1902

When I say "1897" ir refere to the Westley Richards new action model 1897(sorry for not mention). This very action was used by many gunmakers.