Did your Professional Hunter just shoot your animal??

[Cam Moon]

I was reading a couple of threads about back up shots, and there were some comments about PHs shooting first. (Does this even happen ?!?!)
Anyway, I posted the following (or similar) on there, but decided to start a new thread instead, and I'll go back and delete my post from there. I don't want to derail somebody's thread.

Ok, so in reading the comments it looks like most people agree on a few things. In a hunt the PH should NEVER fire the first shot. The ONLY exception to this would be in the event of a charge where lives are in danger. Fine. We agree on this. But then what happens? Do you continue on our hunt? Or is it now over..... that animal that was shot (in self defense by the PH) is now YOUR trophy animal? I would suspect that it may depend on quotas/if more of the same species can still be hunted.
Here's an example: I save up (what is to me a small fortune) and go on a buffalo hunt. As we are approaching the herd, one of them charges and the PH puts it down. Great. But is that then automatically my Buffalo? Is my hunt now over? Or pants get cleaned, the buff picked up to be processed, and we carry on with my hunt with me having an exciting story to tell? I'm curious as to what The opinions are of my fellow Hunters, as well as the Outfitters and PHs on here.

 

[gillettehunter]

In my world its not MY buffalo. I didn't shoot it. Plain and simple. Seems like I remember the same happening to Jim Shockey in Africa. Perhaps Zim?? It was an elephant and because of the paperwork nightmare he claimed it if I recall correctly.
On DG its best to have that talked about with your PH ahead of time. I know that in thick cover or near concession boundaries some hunters have asked their PH's to take a follow up shot just to be sure. That is up to the hunter tho and should be decided upon in advance.
Bruce

 

[Hunt anything]

Hopefully it’s the latter but I have a sneaky suspicion it’s the former. Probably does depend on quota and if agame scout is along it will most likely come down on his word.

 

[IdaRam]

While I believe a client may elect (in most instances) to take the animal shot by the PH in self defense on his bag and save paperwork for his PH, no Safari Company or PH is going to require this unless there a some really drastic extenuating circumstances. Say maybe Black Rhino… then just be prepared to spend a little time in the gray bar hotel.
I have been told in both Zim and Mozambique prior to hunts commencing if there is a hostile animal inbound and anyone is in danger, shoot it! Elephant, lion, buffalo doesn’t matter, do not hesitate we will sort out the paperwork. That is one of the reasons the game scout is here. It will not count on your bag unless you want it to.
It would be quite a generous act for a hunter to claim the animal on his quota, but I’m sure it happens ocassionally. The PH fully expects to deal with the paperwork and red tape.

 

[R.M.C.]

Good thread!! I could see a number of scenarios playing out like the client shoots but misses, then the ph shoots and actually kills the animal. What do you do if there's only one hole?

 

[R.M.C.]

In my world the buffalo in the example you made wouldn't be mine and hopefully I'd be hunting for mine the next day.

 

[Safari Dave]

My recent PH in Mozambique told me exactly what I wanted to hear when I delicately approached the subject on the way to the hunting concession.


"I have never shot a client's buffalo", was his reply.


As a matter of fact, he told me he would not shoot in a charging situation until the buffalo was 20 yards away or unless the client told him that he wanted him to.



That was perfect, as far as I was concerned.

 

[Safari Dave]

If I, unknowingly, got stuck with the famous American PH, who must instruct his clients to shoot buffalo too far back, so that he can blast them as they charge, that would make me mad as h***!

I'd try to leave without settling the bill, if I could.

 

[sestoppelman]

In my world its not MY buffalo. I didn't shoot it. Plain and simple. Seems like I remember the same happening to Jim Shockey in Africa. Perhaps Zim?? It was an elephant and because of the paperwork nightmare he claimed it if I recall correctly.
On DG its best to have that talked about with your PH ahead of time. I know that in thick cover or near concession boundaries some hunters have asked their PH's to take a follow up shot just to be sure. That is up to the hunter tho and should be decided upon in advance.
Bruce

I saw that vid. He was in Tanzania I think hunting with his old buddy Mike Fell.

 

[Red Leg]

I saw that vid. He was in Tanzania I think hunting with his old buddy Mike Fell.

Deserved each other.

 

[leslie hetrick]

any number of animals can kill you in africa if things go south in a hurry, and i would not fault my ph if he had to shoot first to save my hide. that being said, i shot a water buck and tho shot well it headed into thick cover and i said if you get a shot take it, he did and saved maybe a long track.

 

[sestoppelman]

That happens, and has happened to me as well. Not only a long trek but maybe a lost animal that isnt recovered and must still be paid for. That happened to me once as well, a waterbuck too.

 

[Cam Moon]

I myself shot a magnificent Sable with a poor shot. It was quartering to, and I was so excited I took the shot anyway. I was still fairly certain that although not the ideal shot, it would be good enough. "Good enough" now means "Don't shoot it you Dumbass!!!". The bull took off, and although he left a blood trail, it became lighter and lighter and then disappeared. My PH got his rifle and carried it when we tracked. I remember thinking that I really hoped that HE wasn't going to shoot "MY" Sable. It may seem stupid to some, but I remember that was the way I felt. If I didn't finish the job, then it wasn't really mine. As it turns out, he didn't shoot it. Neither did I. We didn't get another opportunity.... And it was never recovered either!
So, hypothetically, if he would have finished it, what would have been better? Me going home with nothing to show but a big hole in my bank account? Or me going home with a beautiful Sable bull that my PH and I hunted together? I shot initially, but he ended up taking the kill shot so as to not prolong its suffering.
It's a no-brainer now, but often it's easier to see things more clearly afterwards. I spent the rest of the week in the same hunting area, refusing to leave in hopes of stumbling across this Sable. In doing so I think I missed out on some wonderful opportunities. But this is all a different topic. I was wondering what happens if the PH shoots first!

 

[sestoppelman]

If the PH were to shoot first, and not in a charge situation, I think the thing to do is stop and ask why? I have never had it happen to me nor heard of it happening outside of a charge like what happened to Shockey.

 

[Hunt anything]

I had a PH shoot kafue lechwe after I double lunged it, the bull took off and he about shot it’s ear off! I was none too pleased but after slogging out to it and with the prospect of a long chase in that mud I cooled down a little. He could have waited a bit before he shot or after my second shot which was not good (gut shot) the bull fell after about 50 yds. They did replace the cape for me though.

 

[BeeMaa]

This is a conversation the hunter and PH need to have before the hunt, not after it happens. It doesn't matter if only PG is being hunted...DG are almost always in the area. The hunter and PH need to be on the same page before leaving the lodge.

 

[Sabattiboy]

This sort of thread might save a misunderstanding for a hunter by becoming aware now and not later.
Maybe a person strongly thinking about booking a hunt should consider making a written list of what if questions.

 

[ActionBob]

In my world its not MY buffalo. I didn't shoot it. Plain and simple.

That would be the right answer for the example given. If anything different, you are not hunting with the right outfit.

 

[ActionBob]

While I believe a client may elect (in most instances) to take the animal shot by the PH in self defense on his bag and save paperwork for his PH, no Safari Company or PH is going to require this unless there a some really drastic extenuating circumstances. Say maybe Black Rhino… then just be prepared to spend a little time in the gray bar hotel.
I have been told in both Zim and Mozambique prior to hunts commencing if there is a hostile animal inbound and anyone is in danger, shoot it! Elephant, lion, buffalo doesn’t matter, do not hesitate we will sort out the paperwork. That is one of the reasons the game scout is here. It will not count on your bag unless you want it to.
It would be quite a generous act for a hunter to claim the animal on his quota, but I’m sure it happens ocassionally. The PH fully expects to deal with the paperwork and red tape.

Dan you obviously hunted with proper professionals I had the same experience in Zimbabwe.

 

[Sabattiboy]

Capstick wrote about a situation where he took a clients shot on a crocodile.
As I recall the story it was a man eater and a rare opportunity to eliminate it. He knew his client could not make that shot. Then he botched the shot anyway.
I am not certain if the PH rules back then would have allowed him to dispatch it as they would a rogue elephant or buffalo. I think they expect crocodiles to do what they do.