Beyond primer availability....

[steve white]

Glad to see more primers on the shelves--even happier when they are on sale. Sometimes what is on sale is new to me, and not something I might have chosen if not to save a buck. I used to go without rather than use something other than bench rest primers. But here's the thing.....
I'M NOT SURE I EVER SAW A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE DUE TO PRIMERS!!! When I was compelled to use the regular blue box basic LR primers due to availability issues, I noticed zero difference in group size or placement. Not sure if I even saw that much difference between magnum and standard primers, truth be told. They all just worked.
We are not privy to manufacturers changing primers at will on loaded ammunition, or as to why they chose to change...lots of questions, to my mind.

I have not been recording effect of primers on extreme spread of speed. So I appeal to this cadre--look back over your notes and tell me if you have seen measurable differences in that regard.
True, shotgun recipes publish tested pressure differences, and I respect those published data with regard to choice of primers--I like to keep pressures down. But I have never seen published information on the effect of different brands of rifle primers as regards anything, except maybe to recommend a magnum primer in certain situations.
Perhaps I have overlooked something out there. WHAT IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION/OPINION?

 

[Shootist43]

Steve, I've been reloading for well over 40 years. I hunt and have been a competitive shooter. As long as you are satisfied with groups one MOA or less (which I am) I see no benefit to using Benchrest primers. As a general rule I use Federal primers for everything from Small Pistol to Large Rifle Magnums.

 

[steve white]

Steve, I've been reloading for well over 40 years. I hunt and have been a competitive shooter. As long as you are satisfied with groups one MOA or less (which I am) I see no benefit to using Benchrest primers. As a general rule I use Federal primers for everything from Small Pistol to Large Rifle Magnums.

I have used Federals and CCI, but recently bought some Rem 9 1/2 's on sale, after hearing good reports on them from my nephew. We'll see! Do you have any hard fast rules on magnum primers or just go with listed recommendations?
Have you seen any improvement in ES with primers? Thanks

 

[grand veneur]

I also don't know if the different Primers make that much of a difference in practice. Out of habit and consideration for the official loading data from the various companies, I use what is recommended, but I have also used substitute Primers in case of lack of a certain type, without noticing any difference. I only strictly distinguish between standard Primers and Magnum Primers, because I am afraid that the large amount of powder in some of my cartridges want not ignite properly. Whether using standard Primers would make a difference, I don't know either. The misfires I had with some cartridges were not due to a particular Primer.

Art Alphin published data in his book, but I don't know whether it are very relevant in practice for hunting. He also writes that ultimately you should control your loading, because they cannot state that Primers are truly interchangeable or not.

ANY SHOT You WANT / A-SQUARE

 

[grand veneur]

The cartridge used by A-Square for the experiment was a 7mm Rem Mag / 160gr GK Sierra / 66gr H-4831.

 

[SStomcat]

During the recent primer shortage, I ran some practice loads using CCI‑34 (magnum-style large rifle primer with a heavier cup) as a stand-in for my usual Large Rifle Magnum primers.
Caliber: .470
Loads: practice only, not intended for hunting
Accuracy: satisfied expectations — groups and point-of-impact acceptable at 25 yards and 50 yards. Function: reliable ignition and extraction with CCI‑34 in the cases tested. No signs of overpressure (flattened/cratered primers, sticky extraction, or unusual brass marks)

 

[steve white]

I also don't know if the different Primers make that much of a difference in practice. Out of habit and consideration for the official loading data from the various companies, I use what is recommended, but I have also used substitute Primers in case of lack of a certain type, without noticing any difference. I only strictly distinguish between standard Primers and Magnum Primers, because I am afraid that the large amount of powder in some of my cartridges want not ignite properly. Whether using standard Primers would make a difference, I don't know either. The misfires I had with some cartridges were not due to a particular Primer.

Art Alphin published data in his book, but I don't know whether it are very relevant in practice for hunting. He also writes that ultimately you should control your loading, because they cannot state that Primers are truly interchangeable or not.


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ANY SHOT You WANT / A-SQUARE

Wow, now that's the kind of information I was looking for. Thanks for posting this! But, as said, it raises as many questions--how empirically has the Fed 215 changed. What are the results on other cartridges and types of cartridges, straight wall or shouldered, or greatly necked down?

It took Art Alphin's book to list such--I don't recall seeing any manufacturer pressure listings, etc. But I do recall anecdotal evidence in differing experiences with pressure signs on the brass, on the extractor, in regard to bolt lift or general stickiness. We often put it down to "every rifle is a law unto itself" and regarding chamber and bore dimensions that may be true. But if there ARE differences which induce pressure in primers, we need to know about it, do we not? We often consider differing volumes among various manufacturers of brass and how that, or even distance to the lands affects pressure. Funny we are so in the dark about primers.

Still in all, good to see any general guidelines with regard to PRESSURES, just as are considered in shotgun loadings.

 

[steve white]

During the recent primer shortage, I ran some practice loads using CCI‑34 (magnum-style large rifle primer with a heavier cup) as a stand-in for my usual Large Rifle Magnum primers.
Caliber: .470
Loads: practice only, not intended for hunting
Accuracy: satisfied expectations — groups and point-of-impact acceptable at 25 yards and 50 yards. Function: reliable ignition and extraction with CCI‑34 in the cases tested. No signs of overpressure (flattened/cratered primers, sticky extraction, or unusual brass marks)

Good to hear--the last place I would want for something to be sticky would be a large caliber break action rifle!
Interesting also in your contribution concerning large caliber rifles with larger powder volumes. You and Grand Veneur have it over me there, as the largest thing I have ever owned or reloaded for is 375 H&H magnum. So I am not that versed in the cartridges which probably absolutely demand a magnum primer anyway. Thanks

 

[steve white]

The cartridge used by A-Square for the experiment was a 7mm Rem Mag / 160gr GK Sierra / 66gr H-4831.

Hey, that's what I just purchased from Tikka. So that primer info is directly applicable. Thanks

 

[cajunchefray]

It is my understanding from reading Rifle and Handloader magazines (I consider reputable sources). that Magnum Rifle primers are recommended for ball powders, like Winchester 760. I've also seen reference to any powder charge over 60 grains, in cold weather.
Personally, I use a Magnum primer for 60 grains and over powder charges, independent of temperature. BUT I work up slowly and look for signs of pressure.
I test these heavier loads in the scorching 95+ degrees here in the summer, so no surprises. I also lean heavily towards temperature stable powders.

 

[steve white]

It is my understanding from reading Rifle and Handloader magazines (I consider reputable sources). that Magnum Rifle primers are recommended for ball powders, like Winchester 760. I've also seen reference to any powder charge over 60 grains, in cold weather.
Personally, I use a Magnum primer for 60 grains and over powder charges, independent of temperature. BUT I work up slowly and look for signs of pressure.
I test these heavier loads in the scorching 95+ degrees here in the summer, so no surprises. I also lean heavily towards temperature stable powders.

Thanks for the input. My problem is I hate sweating all over my guns so do most workups in cooler months, lol.
Which are your favorite temperature stable powders?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The only differences I’ve been able to detect among the major brands of primer is that Federal primers are a bit larger, which is handy if you have brass with the pockets a bit large. I will only load federal brass with federal primers. I try to match the brand of primer to the brand of brass when possible, but it’s hard with as many different brands of cases there are.
Remington pistol primers have always pierced on me, burning up the end of my firing pins, so I have discontinued their use.
As far as magnums and standards are concerned, I try to use magnums when recommended, above 60 grains or with ball powders. Before I knew to use magnums with ball powders, I’d hate to say how many pounds of W760 I’ve burned through my 30-06 with standard Remington primers.

 

[grand veneur]

I also occasionally load cartridges with Berdan primers. I use the 5,5mm primers from Dynamit Nobel as well as the 6,45mm primers from CBC. I mention these primers because they seem to have a stronger explosive power compared to the Boxer primers.

 

[Rare Breed]

Thanks for the input. My problem is I hate sweating all over my guns so do most workups in cooler months, lol.
Which are your favorite temperature stable powders?

For me any of the RL powders. For example while I have never had any problems in Africas 100+F degree temperatures with IMR3031 the absolute closest you can come to cordite sticks I still switched over to RL15.5 given it most closely matched the 3031 powder, was more temperature controlled and I got a great deal and bought a lifetime supply of it…absolutely no difference in performance to my IMR3031

 

[SStomcat]

How much is a “lifetime supply” in your book?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

How much is a “lifetime supply” in your book?

It would greatly depend on long one plans to live. I’m only 28, my lifetime supply will be a lot different than a man who is 68. It also depends on how much you plan to shoot.
I shoot about 4-8 pounds of powder a year so I would need to store more than 300 pounds of powder, and 160,000 primers, to have a semi-comfortable lifetime supply. That doesn’t seem safe to me, nor can I afford to buy it.

For me any of the RL powders. For example while I have never had any problems in Africas 100+F degree temperatures with IMR3031 the absolute closest you can come to cordite sticks I still switched over to RL15.5 given it most closely matched the 3031 powder, was more temperature controlled and I got a great deal and bought a lifetime supply of it…absolutely no difference in performance to my IMR3031

I like to stick with single based powders, the double based are a bit harder on throats. So any alliant powder is out. But then again it depends on much one intends to shoot.

 

[cajunchefray]

I use Hodgon Varget and H4350.
I haven’t seen any POI between 35 degrees and 100 degrees temperature. I’ve used Varget in.308, .30-05 and .375 H&H.
While not max velocity, I load for consistency.

 

[SStomcat]

It would greatly depend on long one plans to live. I’m only 28, my lifetime supply will be a lot different than a man who is 68. It also depends on how much you plan to shoot.
I shoot about 4-8 pounds of powder a year so I would need to store more than 300 pounds of powder, and 160,000 primers, to have a semi-comfortable lifetime supply. That doesn’t seem safe to me, nor can I afford to buy it.

That's understood, I wanted to know from Rare Breed what he thinks to be his lifetime supply.

 

[Datchew]

I use Hodgon Varget and H4350.
I haven’t seen any POI between 35 degrees and 100 degrees temperature. I’ve used Varget in.308, .30-05 and .375 H&H.
While not max velocity, I load for consistency.

Same except I don't load 30-06 anymore. Varget for hunting 308, h4350 for 762nato clone for FAL's

I was very surprised varget worked so wonderfully in 375 h&h

 

[SStomcat]

I use Hodgon Varget and H4350.
I haven’t seen any POI between 35 degrees and 100 degrees temperature. I’ve used Varget in.308, .30-05 and .375 H&H.
While not max velocity, I load for consistency.

My experience has been the same, I live in balmy Houston . At 105°F peak, and added humidity, I shoot for 1-2 MOA depending on distance