Question for the Mauser guys - bolt swapping

[spiska]

I have an 8mm German K98 that was previously converted to a hunting rifle long before I was born. It sports a Lyman peep sight. I plan to get it tapped for an optic and realized that a bent bolt doesn't mean it will clear a scope.

All the metal parts are matching and I honestly hate to modify the original bolt handle. And it might be easier and cheaper to just swap it out.

I've seen some commercial FN bolts for sale on line. Would it be likely that an FN bolt would be compatible in a K98? I know I'd need to check for headspace.

 

[jruby]

The biggest problem.is ensuring headspace is correct. The front of the bolt assembly has the locking lugs, this is where headspace is set. . You might want to get ahold of go / no go guages to verify the head spacing if you want to swap bolts. Its typically not recommended to swap bolts.worse case is you might have to set barrel back and rechamber to get the headspacing correct. To me it's a crapshoot especially since your talking about a bolt you dont have. You could also rechamber to a 8mm-06. There's a lot more than swapping the bolt to consider including the safety.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If it's already sporterized, there's no reason to be concerned about preserving collecter value. Get someone to either bend the bolt handle or cut it off and weld on a pre-made aftermarket scope relief bolt handle. Make sure it's someone who's done it before.

 

[spiska]

The biggest problem.is ensuring headspace is correct. The front of the bolt assembly has the locking lugs, this is where headspace is set. . You might want to get ahold of go / no go guages to verify the head spacing if you want to swap bolts. Its typically not recommended to swap bolts.worse case is you might have to set barrel back and rechamber to get the headspacing correct. To me it's a crapshoot especially since your talking about a bolt you dont have. You could also rechamber to a 8mm-06. There's a lot more than swapping the bolt to consider including the safety.

Part of the reason I'd like to swap the bolt is an FN bolt would already have a safety that works with an optic mounted. I don't really want to rechamber it although an 8mm-06 is on my list.

 

[spiska]

If it's already sporterized, there's no reason to be concerned about preserving collecter value. Get someone to either bend the bolt handle or cut it off and weld on a pre-made aftermarket scope relief bolt handle. Make sure it's someone who's done it before.

I know the collector value is gone. That's the main reason I picked this one up. But the collector in me has a hard time letting go of collector anxieties. Just spit balling reasonable alternatives to the problem that would save time/expense. But I've learned several times that short cuts are usually the longest road.

I have an FN in 7x57. I should have probably tried that to see if it worked and headspaced before posting the question.

 

[jruby]

I know the collector value is gone. That's the main reason I picked this one up. But the collector in me has a hard time letting go of collector anxieties. Just spit balling reasonable alternatives to the problem that would save time/expense. But I've learned several times that short cuts are usually the longest road.

I have an FN in 7x57. I should have probably tried that to see if it worked and headspaced before posting the question.

Each bolt / barrel us slightly different, sometimes more than a little..

 

[V42]

My opinion is worth nothing because it's your rifle but I would have the original bolt modified to work with the scope while leaving the serial number intact showing that it is original to the rifle.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Part of the reason I'd like to swap the bolt is an FN bolt would already have a safety that works with an optic mounted. I don't really want to rechamber it although an 8mm-06 is on my list.

If you want the safety just change the bolt shroud. That would be if your're talking 3-position side safety (i.e. Model 70 style). Or does the donor rifle have a trigger block side safety? The latter simply requires swapping triggers. Probably cheaper to buy a Timney "Deluxe" trigger (~$160). If the donor has a 2-position wing style scope relief safety on the bolt shroud, simply swap it for the military flag safety. But any scope will still be high unless the bolt handle is modified.

You will need go-no go gauges if you start swapping bolts. You can try your 7mm bolt in this gun but even if it checks out with the gauges, that's no guarantee the bolt you buy sight unseen will fit the same. A big roll of the dice! The new bolt might close okay ... but the first cartridge fired still separates at the rim. Then you're lucky if you escape with only your eyebrows singed.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Here's the 404J I built on a Czech 98 Mauser. It has 3-position Model 70 style safety (Parkwest $200).

 

[spiska]

When you say Czech 98, would that be a Vz24? I have two in the safe. And those pics makes me want to spend a lot of money I don't have turning one of them into a 257 Roberts AI.

 

[spiska]

I like that Model 70 safety. I guess I'll go for getting the original bolt modified and maybe picking up a new stock.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

When you say Czech 98, would that be a Vz24? I have two in the safe. And those pics makes me want to spend a lot of money I don't have turning one of them into a 257 Roberts AI.

Yes, vz.24. Those were one of the best if not the best of the military 98 Mauser clones.

I added a Timney trigger (standard not deluxe) as well as Model 70 style safety (both from ebay). The bottom metal is 416 Rem from Blackburn. It worked for 404 without modification. I bought two stocks off auction sights. This is the first one that was unfinished (rough and "semi-inletted").

Picked it up in a hurry to finish the gun before fourth safari (still didn't have to time to blue it before I left). Then the second used stock came up on another site and I got it cheap so decided to take the risk. It had some issues but cleaned up nice. Note the curled trigger shoe.

This stock was designed apparently for an African hunter with small hands. The barrel trough was thick ( = bruiser caliber) and no forward sling stud ( = barrel band swivel = African gun). The pistol grip was much thinner than typical Mauser, requiring me to shorten the rear action screw (to keep it from entering the bolt track in tang), trim a bit from rear top edges of magazine box, and curl the trigger shoe to clear the trigger guard. Curiously, the previous owner did not install stock reinforcement even though it was made for heavy caliber. Cracks had already started internally. I added two Winchester crossbolts, a reinforcement steel pin down through the pistol grip and then fully bedded the action end to end with JB Weld. The action was tapped for a three screw 1-piece base to accommodate the vz.24's stripper clip port. At first I picked up a CCOP USA semi-rail base off ebay. It worked fine with my old Weaver 3x brought out of retirement but scope did not have enough eye relief for 404's heavy recoil. Again off ebay I bought a 1-4x30mm Bushnell scope. Then I found a much lower discontinued Weaver 1-piece base to accommodate the thicker scope tube. With Warne low QD rings this scope acquires instantly when the gun is mounted. The challenging part of this project was tuning the vz.24's 8mm rails, loading ramp, and extractor to cycle much larger 404 cartridges. Requires ability to think outside the box ... majorly.

My bolt's scope relief handle was added by previous owner ... and he botched it. The aftermarket bolt handle was welded on slightly off kilter and the back end of bolt was warped due to overheating during welding. I was able to true up both eventually but it was a challenge!

Building this rifle was not for the faint of heart and I knew that going in. I'd never done anything like this before. But the end product was very rewarding ... in many ways. I now have a gun that is truly MINE. It looks good, cycles perfectly, and shoots very well. Life is too short. A waste of oxygen if one doesn't try to explore and learn new things.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A Mauser High Turret scope mount can be installed without having to change anything on all Mauser 98 rifles without pre-modified bolt action system.

I googled that scope mount. 1) Seems to be rather expensive. 2) Not particularly attractive, in my opinion anyway. 3) Definitely not a fast acquiring system as cheek would be way up off the comb to find crosshairs (also = potentially increased felt recoil). 4) Switching to iron sights would appear to require removing the entire system. Not a quick detach setup. 5) Very high mount compromises shooter's accuracy (not rifle's accuracy) as he must be high off the gun to find crosshairs ( = unsteady).

Seems to require sacrificing a lot simply to maintain original bolt handle and safety. Since the gun has already been significantly altered, the quicker and more practical solution to adapting it for scope would be change the bolt handle and safety. I see no advantage clinging to the original bolt handle and safety. Personally, I find the original Mauser military flag safety very awkward to use in hunting situations. Definitely NOT quick release! I would not hesitate switching a Mauser to either trigger block style safety (Timney deluxe trigger) or wing style scope relief safety (but only if scope is permanently mounted). 3-position Model 70 style safety is best for QD scope with optional irons.

 

[grand veneur]

This scope mount was designed during the WWII to quickly convert standard Mauser 98 into sniper rifles. It has proven very useful. Having to hold the head a little higher to aim trough the scope was common at that time with all scoped rifles. It is not a problem. The scope mount allows aiming with open sights below the mount and with the scope mounted. One had also to be able to fight with such scoped rifles. By the way, I have this scope mount on an old big caliber rifle with which I shot a buffalo.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This scope mount was designed during the WWII to quickly convert standard Mauser 98 into sniper rifles. It has proven very useful. Having to hold the head a little higher to aim trough the scope was common at that time with all scoped rifles. It is not a problem. The scope mount allows aiming with open sights below the mount and with the scope mounted. One had also to be able to fight with such scoped rifles. By the way, I have this scope mount on an old big caliber rifle with which I shot a buffalo.

View attachment 712379

Interesting. The models of this mount that I googled did not appear to allow the option of seeing irons underneath. Back when I was a young man peek-underneath scope rings were all the rage ... briefly. I bought a pair ... and threw them in the trash before hunting season. Too hard to find the crosshairs.

During WWII German sniper rifles were equipped with special safeties that have the flag on the end of an extended shaft. That way the standard military safety could be used with a low mounted scope. Not sure what they did about bolt handle. I seem to recall the sniper scopes had a small diameter ocular bell. Perhaps small enough for standard bent bolt handle to clear. Just the other day I saw one of those sniper flags come up on ebay. Here's an image of one attached to a bolt. Curious about the hole in safety flag. What could have been the purpose?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Actually seems I may be wrong (imagine that!). The extended flag sniper safety merely brought the flag out to the end of the ocular bell so shooter didn't have to reach underneath the scope to operate it. I'm guessing reaching in for it could result in his finger getting trapped between scope tube and safety flag (especially if wearing gloves)? The sniper scope mounts used with modified safety appear to me to be quite high.

Edit: And wrong again ... sorta. The above is K98 sniper rifle safety. The flag extends past the end of cocking piece in cocked position and operates upside down vs standard safety flag. That way the height never extends above the bolt shroud. These guns could easily have accommodated low mounted scopes ... if the bolt handles were modified. Not sure any were. I wonder if the flag was hitting shooter's thumb when fired? Seems like it was hanging in mid air rather precariously and could be easily broke. The only advantage I can see is sniper could disengage the safety without his right hand having to leave the gun. He could scope for targets indefinitely and when he finds one flip off the safety quickly without fumbling around reaching under the scope for the flag with thumb and forefinger.

I understand Olin developed the Winchester 3-position side safety in the thirties. One wonders why the Germans didn't copy it for their WWII sniper rifles. I guess Hitler would need to acknowledge American superior technology.