400 H&H

[Pheroze]

could a pre 64 375 h&h be rebored to 400 h&h or do you need to do a new barrel. Thanks

My rifle started life as a 375 but I bought a new barrel for it. I never asked about reboring. Hopefully someone with more gunsmithing knowledge can weigh in. Mine is a Douglas barrel btw.

 

[Riflecrank]

About the .425 WR:

"The round was the first in Great Britain (and the first major in the world) to have a rebated rim, one that is smaller in diameter than the case body, an invention which Taylor patented in 1908."

I learned something there.
I would have thought the Germans were doing rebated rims before anyone else.
Having to qualify it with "major" does make me suspicious.

Ah ha ! Richard Schüler got a German patent for the rebated rim in 1904.
Interesting that the 11.2x60mm Schüler was essentially a rimless-rebated redo of the
flanged BP cartridge of the Mauser 1871, the 11.15x60R, aka the "11x60mm Mauser."
The original Mauser cartridge re-do could then be loaded with stripper clips like the 8x57mm in a Mauser 1898, and smokeless to boot !

From a site:

"The 31 Oct 1904 DRGM (Patent) 239127 for the 11.2x60 Schüler case is the earliest reference to the ‘Rebated/Rimless’ case type that I know of. This easily predates the 1909 introduction of the 425 Westley-Richards, the earliest British case of this type.

"The German patent D.R.G.M. 239127 was evidently issued for Richard Schüler in relation to the smaller rebated rim diameter of the case. The advantage was in being able to use large volume cartridges in standard systems with normal catch head. Schüler seems to have favoured the rebated rim case, as all three of their rimless cases are this type."

 

[zephyr]

My question was a serious one, I know there is a reasonable powder difference, but I was wondering how it would equate to use on game. A bit like the discussion on 416 rigby vs 416 rem mag. I don’t recall anyone having used both on here, the whelan and H&H that is.
And I did wonder about the whelen comment, but it was no reason for someone to get their knickers in a twist
gumpy

The 400H&H will push a .411 dia 400gr bullet at 2400fps and a 300gr bullet at 2700fps and head spaces on a belt...
Max SAAMI Pressures for the 416 Rigby is 52000 psi the 416Rem 65000 psi and the
400 H&H 63000 ...IF... you believe Wiki
IMHO The 400 H&H belongs solidly in the 416 family performance wise and I would put the 400 Whelen in with the 450-400 family
As to why a 400 H&H instead of a 416 something my answer is why not

 

[Certus]

The 400H&H will push a .411 dia 400gr bullet at 2400fps and a 300gr bullet at 2700fps and head spaces on a belt...
Max SAAMI Pressures for the 416 Rigby is 52000 psi the 416Rem 65000 psi and the
400 H&H 63000 ...IF... you believe Wiki
IMHO The 400 H&H belongs solidly in the 416 family performance wise and I would put the 400 Whelen in with the 450-400 family
As to why a 400 H&H instead of a 416 something my answer is why not

Belt head spacing allows that gorgeous slope neck for smoooothhh feeding.

Also .416 is full of cartridges, .400 not so. Plus it just sounds nicer. Separates then from Rigby, Jeffery, WR etc too.

 

[Rosch]

could a pre 64 375 h&h be rebored to 400 h&h or do you need to do a new barrel. Thanks

#smokepole
I‘ve seen a lot of different calibers around when I was out in the bush hunting! All guns where doing what they should do when major basics where in line:
Shotplacement and bullet performance or vice versa!
I never heard any game complaining about bullet dia or caliberstamp if basics where right!
You have a 375h&h? Well, stick to it!
Invest your money better in a big order of first class 300gr bullets, which do well with Your gun and find a load, practice on the range often & regulary. After that You can hunt confident and successfully everything in and outside Yurassic Park! So, where is a need for a 400 h&h where stamped brass is not Your only problem?

 

[Pheroze]

I thought this might be of interest. These two groups are (top) North Fork 400gr PP 0.410 diameter, 2405 fps average over 80.5gr H4350 COL 3.620. (Bottom) North Fork 400gr SS 0.411 diameter over the same load. They shoot identically. I thought this would be interesting to some because of the fact they are two different styles of @North Fork Technologies bullets. And they are two different diameters. I can’t always get a consistent supply of the same diameter bullet, so this is important to me. A note, the 400gr Swift A-Frame was 2350 FPS and the same group size. It too is a 0.410 diameter bullet. The groups measure about 0.76 and 0.79 respectively at 100 yards from the bench. I suspect with a better marksman, or a sturdier rest, the groups would be better.

 

[The creed]

So far, the 400 H&H has been a proprietary cartridge offered only by Holland and Holland. No one else makes rifles chambered for it, nor ammunition manufacturers produce ammunition for it.

Ballistically, it is very similar to the 416 Remington Magnum, which is much more widely available. The 416 RM also has a better selection of bullets available to it and much more reloading data surrounding, not mention much easier to get "properly headstamped" brass.

If It were me and I wanted something a touch more powerful than the 375 H&H, I would look to the 416 Rem Mag or 416 Rigby. Both offer more velocity with similarily weighted bullets (due to increased case capacity), a better, wider, more common and less expensive selection of bullets, and rifles so chambered can be found worldwide.

 

[Pheroze]

So far, the 400 H&H has been a proprietary cartridge offered only by Holland and Holland. No one else makes rifles chambered for it, nor ammunition manufacturers produce ammunition for it.

Ballistically, it is very similar to the 416 Remington Magnum, which is much more widely available. The 416 RM also has a better selection of bullets available to it and much more reloading data surrounding, not mention much easier to get "properly headstamped" brass.

If It were me and I wanted something a touch more powerful than the 375 H&H, I would look to the 416 Rem Mag or 416 Rigby. Both offer more velocity with similarily weighted bullets (due to increased case capacity), a better, wider, more common and less expensive selection of bullets, and rifles so chambered can be found worldwide.

Hi, I had mine made by Lemieux Armouiers in Quebec. I also know Gulf Breeze Firearms makes them as at least one member here had his made by them. Hendershot and Safari Arms Ltd. loads ammo for it. But, your point about it being less available than commercial chambering is true. Thankfully Swift, woodleigh, North Fork all make bullets for it. Quad-cart makes brass

 

[Surgeon1]

I have a Custom early 400H&H from Dakota. Just finished an all weather one. Both shoot right
1/2” or less with either A-fame or Break-Aways that are .410 dia 400gr. Shoots NF SS And
Cup-points right at .05-0.6”. Also have shot .411 dia with no change in impact or group size.
Maybe a touch more neck tension with .411”. But doesn’t make much difference as I made a taper crimp die! I don’t shoot them hot (2250) Not near as hot as I shoot my Rigby. Recoil very similar to 375 at 2500-2550 with 300’s but really tough on what I’ve shot! Had a couple 416 Remingtons
And wasn’t impressed and sent them down the road long ago. It’s a great midsize caliber.

 

[steve white]

H&H has a sterling history in effective African cartridge development....think of many of your favorites, including of course the 375 H&H! The 400 is a winner, pity not enough people have experienced it/pity it was preceded by competitors such as the currently more accessible 416 Rem, and others. I would love to own one, and it a 375 barrel ever played out on me, would be tempted to rebarrel to it.

 

[Rosch]

View attachment 707456

I thought this might be of interest. These two groups are (top) North Fork 400gr PP 0.410 diameter, 2405 fps average over 80.5gr H4350 COL 3.620. (Bottom) North Fork 400gr SS 0.411 diameter over the same load. They shoot identically. I thought this would be interesting to some because of the fact they are two different styles of @North Fork Technologies bullets. And they are two different diameters. I can’t always get a consistent supply of the same diameter bullet, so this is important to me. A note, the 400gr Swift A-Frame was 2350 FPS and the same group size. It too is a 0.410 diameter bullet. The groups measure about 0.76 and 0.79 respectively at 100 yards from the bench. I suspect with a better marksman, or a sturdier rest, the groups would be better.

Thank You for the mentioning.
Sadly that wonˋt work with every barrel.
Itˋs allways the barrel, which makes the bullet happy or not …

 

[zephyr]

Been shooting my 400 since 2011
Ditto on the remarks above
great cartridge