Lion hunting SA

[Daisy]

I disagree with put and take hunting regardless of its kuche safaris or CBL. However, the kuche thread is about better opportunities for the same experience and same pricing. CBL threads give someone an understanding there is more to CBL than just the tracking experience. However, it’s the same in that people who have participated and enjoyed the experience don’t want to ask questions that might change their perception.

The only person I have seen that has done it is rare breed. He has been open, kind, genuine throughout the whole process. He has conceded many points. Where are those that have done it that haven’t been asking questions?

On the other side, many have said how horrible it is. How they would never do anything like it. How it gave African hunters a bad name.

Can you point out the people on the cbl side that have been but is now unwilling to ask the questions?


I don’t have a dog in this fight. As you’d don’t either. But you have to get real with which side has the vitriol.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I’d like to hear from one of the members who shot a CBL. I have read the norms and standards previously. That sounds like a standard contract to me, nothing require full disclosure.

Mine was full disclosure, released 35 days prior. It was microchip and that was confirmed. There were other lions on the property. Nothing shady, no deception.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Mine was full disclosure, released 35 days prior. It was microchip and that was confirmed. There were other lions on the property. Nothing shady, no deception.

Would you please tell us all the name of that outfitter?

 

[LivingTheDream]

Would you please tell us all the name of that outfitter?

The outfitter was Comre at that time, but it was De Klerks property and they provided the second PH.

 

[Philip Glass]

I shot a bison from an SCI auction. I bid on it for the meat. A three year old male provided 300 lbs of very tasty vacuum sealed meat!

Honestly, this wasn't much of a hunt. I waited for a safe brain shot and down it went.

Good meat for sure!

 

[wesheltonj]

(1) The minimum natural range of a Cape is 31,135 acres. IMO 4K acres is a pen and that's not for me, high, low or no fence.

(2) How SCI and Rowland Ward, IMO classify as Estate hunt is incorrect, but I don't make the rules. Calling a river the same as a high fence IMO is not the same, but a low fence is not a problem.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I never once said that I had a problem with the ethics of how that 4,000 acre hunt went down.

I made a statement that him saying hunting wild lions with bait were as unethical as CBL. I find that line of thought to be greatly flawed. I pointed out that he would hunt a Buff in a small acreage but thought negatively of someone hunting a wild animal by baiting.


He then attacked my intelligence and told me to wake up.

Dude wants attention. I get it.

Keep hunting however you want to hunt. As long as it’s legal. I also have no problems with people hunting CBL.

I am headed to RSA in august myself. I have never said any fenced hunting or any one Country was unethical

Again, I take no position one way or the other re the "ethics" of hunting lions over bait vs tracking some zoo animal tossed into the wild. I just said I thought anyone who was baiting "wild" lions is kinda hypocritical criticizing the other guys. Both methods are legal but in my humble opinion either hunter should probably keep his head down and mouth shut about what the other guy does. In my eyes there's not a lot of "fair chase" involved in either. Is following a domesticated pen-raised lion around in the bush "fair?" How much "chase" is involved in camping beside a bait pile? That was and is my view on the matter Clear enough now?

I acknowledge hunting over bait for some species (like black bears in this country) is the only way they can be effectively managed. I'm okay with it as a management tool. But others can do it. Should they be proud of their work? Seems most are. Fine. Satisfaction and pride are a personal matter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

(1) The minimum natural range of a Cape is 31,135 acres. IMO 4K acres is a pen and that's not for me, high, low or no fence.

(2) How SCI and Rowland Ward, IMO classify as Estate hunt is incorrect, but I don't make the rules. Calling a river the same as a high fence IMO is not the same, but a low fence is not a problem.

I am an official scorer for SCI but have yet to submit any of my own trophies. One elk on the wall is easily gold medal (356 B&C) and also a black wildebeest. Do I care if the animal I hunt is "estate" or not? Nope. If it gives me a challenge then I'm happy enough. Late August this year I spent four days chasing a herd of buffalo on another 4K operation and never got a shot at the cow I was supposed to cull. Only saw her briefly once. But that's okay. Wildflowers were in full bloom, scenery was great, birds were returning, all kinds of animals were running around. Didn't shoot anything but I still had a great time. We were on them every day. Oh well.

 

[revturbo9967]

Again, I take no position one way or the other re the "ethics" of hunting lions over bait vs tracking some zoo animal tossed into the wild. I just said I thought anyone who was baiting "wild" lions is kinda hypocritical criticizing the other guys. Both methods are legal but in my humble opinion either hunter should probably keep his head down and mouth shut about what the other guy does. In my eyes there's not a lot of "fair chase" involved in either. Is following a domesticated pen-raised lion around in the bush "fair?" How much "chase" is involved in camping beside a bait pile? That was and is my view on the matter Clear enough now?

I acknowledge hunting over bait for some species (like black bears in this country) is the only way they can be effectively managed. I'm okay with it as a management tool. But others can do it. Should they be proud of their work? Seems most are. Fine. Satisfaction and pride are a personal matter.

Let me get this straight, you believe hunting wild lions over the course of say, 16-21 days with the use of bait is not fair chase but hunting a breeding buffalo on a fenced 4000 acre property that “acts wild enough” is fair chase?

 

[Wiley64]

Don’t take yourselves too seriously, at the end of the day if it were up to the lions they’d rather not be shot at all, they’d also rather have you for lunch than deal with any of these debates. All I know is I want to hunt a lion before I die. I applaud anyone who follows their dreams to the end of the earth, if that’s over bait in zim or on a ranch. You gotta have some balls either way!

 

[Hookboy88]

Let me get this straight, you believe hunting wild lions over the course of say, 16-21 days with the use of bait is not fair chase but hunting a breeding buffalo on a fenced 4000 acre property that “acts wild enough” is fair chase?

Sir, don’t start lol. It gets more comical as it goes on.

 

[Hookboy88]

I completely disagree. Are there unsavory actors in this business? Sure there are but they can be in any.
My major hangup is putting one animal in a separate category from all others. On a pedestal, if you will. This is a type of prejudice and actually comes from a bowing to the antis And their language. They only care about the animals that are seen made into stuffed animals for kids!
It is hypocritical to say no ranch lions can be hunted but sable is ok As well as Whitetailed deer and pheasant, etc.
This whole CBL argument began with the wild Zimbabwe lion being hunted in 2015 who supposedly had a name. All kinds of lies were told about that hunt but in the end it was legal and wild. It is ironic we allowed ourselves as a hunting community to be cowed by this highly publicized and criticized hunt. And then we went on to make policy. Talk about being an asset to the antis!

MR Glass, that was very well said!

 

[Rare Breed]

The one and only CBL hunt I did was in the Kalahari. It was booked through a PH that basically acted as a middle man for the actual hunting operation. We were told that the lions had been roaming free for over 30 days. We were also shown some kills that the lions had made while we were walking through the various areas that we hunted in. The place was 9,000 acres if I remember correctly, so it took quite a bit of tracking to find the lions. I took a lioness and my hunting partner killed lion and a lioness. I was on all three hunts, so I guess you can say I've witnessed 3 different CBL hunts. Admittedly, not a lot of experience, but more than some nonetheless. This operation was first and foremost a lion hunting operation, so the PG on the property were not as plentiful as they are in some areas, but there were still plenty. They also had buffalo on the place, and they were the hardest buffalo I've ever hunted to get close to for a shot. Any shift in wind would send them running to the next county, so to speak. The lions acted much the same. Would I do this again? I'm not really sure. Once I tasted hunting in Zimbabwe, I'm kind of spoiled. But, I also wouldn't discourage someone from doing it, if they want to take a lion, and only have the means to do so in this manor. I'd say to just make sure it's as ethical as possible. Some outfits do operate as ethically as possible. And I'm sure some do not. So if someone is interested in this type of hunt, it's advisable for them to do their homework. There are plenty of people on this forum who can steer them in the right direction.

my hunt completely mimicked Toby’s just on larger area in the Kalahari with same time period of release

 

[Rare Breed]

MR Glass, that was very well said!

+10 Philip!!!

 

[Roller]

I'lll tell you what.. I raise a toast to all the good folks on this forum (CBL Lovers and CBL Haters). Because I'd rather share a beer with any of you (hell ..even Ontario Hunter!) than any of the leftist , anti -hunting POSs that make upon about 50% of the US population these days.

Cheers!

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Ok. I have read all the posts.
I have done a CBL Lioness hunt, and I am not ashamed of it in any way. I booked it thru my go to outfitter Bos en Dal.
The hunt was set and I knew it was a CBL hunt. We traveled to the Kalahari area to a beautiful 10,000 plus acre farm. The only fence I ever saw after entering was the electric fence around camp. I was told 4 lioness and 2 Lion were on property and all had been released 20 plus days ahead of my arrival. I signed the paperwork required for the hunt. One was landowners paper work and one was paperwork for the lioness I would be hunting. It is all in my 2021 hunt report and also filmed and on YouTube. I would hunt this property and another lioness or Lion again. And plan to at some point.

 

[WAB]

Again, I take no position one way or the other re the "ethics" of hunting lions over bait vs tracking some zoo animal tossed into the wild. I just said I thought anyone who was baiting "wild" lions is kinda hypocritical criticizing the other guys. Both methods are legal but in my humble opinion either hunter should probably keep his head down and mouth shut about what the other guy does. In my eyes there's not a lot of "fair chase" involved in either. Is following a domesticated pen-raised lion around in the bush "fair?" How much "chase" is involved in camping beside a bait pile? That was and is my view on the matter Clear enough now?

I acknowledge hunting over bait for some species (like black bears in this country) is the only way they can be effectively managed. I'm okay with it as a management tool. But others can do it. Should they be proud of their work? Seems most are. Fine. Satisfaction and pride are a personal matter.

You guys talk about these CBL like they are house cats. A fellow I know lost his father when one of his CBL’s killed and ate him. These CBL’s are not ‘domesticated’. I have no clue where you came up with that idea. It certainly wasn’t based off actual facts.

 

[Shakka]

You guys talk about these CBL like they are house cats. A fellow I know lost his father when one of his CBL’s killed and ate him. These CBL’s are not ‘domesticated’. I have no clue where you came up with that idea. It certainly wasn’t based off actual facts.

Why did his father go into the enclosure with his lions?

 

[WAB]

Why did his father go into the enclosure with his lions?

You could ask him if he wasn’t dead. My point being, to call these animals domesticated is simply not true to the definition of the word. The descriptions I’m reading here make
It sound like you’re shooting my cat off the front porch.

 

[375Fox]

You guys talk about these CBL like they are house cats. A fellow I know lost his father when one of his CBL’s killed and ate him. These CBL’s are not ‘domesticated’. I have no clue where you came up with that idea. It certainly wasn’t based off actual facts.

I had a Jersey Bull growing up that was obviously a domesticated breed and still very dangerous. CBL lions might not be domesticated at this point but they are raised as livestock. No one argues they aren’t dangerous.