why do people not use premium bullets?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I’ve never had issues with “old fashioned” bullets.

@Dr Ray
We've never had problems with old fashioned bullets because we are just old school and old fashioned.
We learnt what worked and didn't and use what worked. We didn't shoot into the next country for a shot at game.
We kept ranges reasonable and put the bullet where it was meant to go.
Yeah that's right we went HUNTING not shooting. We still had stuff ups but it was usually OUR fault with bullet placement and impatientance,Not waiting for the right shot. The bullet usually did its job if we did ours.
Bob

 

[Dr Ray]

@Dr Ray
We've never had problems with old fashioned bullets because we are just old school and old fashioned.
We learnt what worked and didn't and use what worked. We didn't shoot into the next country for a shot at game.
We kept ranges reasonable and put the bullet where it was meant to go.
Yeah that's right we went HUNTING not shooting. We still had stuff ups but it was usually OUR fault with bullet placement and impatientance,Not waiting for the right shot. The bullet usually did its job if we did ours.
Bob

I thought 200m was a long shot!
I do long range target shooting but use entirely different bullets.
Use the appropriate bullet for the intended target.
Mind you I certainly wouldn’t use target bullets for hunting.

 

[CoElkHunter]

My point was to say that a BT should not be considered "well placed" if shot into the shoulder of an elk. If you're going to use them, aim back into the lungs and away from the shoulder bone, and 50 yards is a chip shot for any decent rifle shooter to make that happen. I fully agree that a BT is not an optimal bullet choice for elk.

If I were going elk hunting, I'd take a different bullet than a BT because I do believe there are better options. That said, I've used 30-06 with 165gr BT handloads for about 20 years on whitetail deer, including several big 250-300+ lb Kansas bucks, and some big TX feral hogs. My experience has been 100% pass throughs, anywhere from 25 to 300 yards, and just about every angle of broadside or quartering to/away. If the situation arose where I only had these handloads and the right shot opportunity arose for elk sized game or smaller, I fully believe it would perform for me.

On my one PG hunt in Africa my PH would keep telling me to take the animal I was shooting at in the shoulder. This was very foreign to me. Neither I or anyone I hunt with here purposefully tries to shoot a big game animal in the shoulder. I have seen shoulders hit and it destroys that shoulder's edible meat.

 

[mark-hunter]

Another reason why people do not use premium bullets:
Lack of bullets on some markets. (third world countries, great ammo draughts in some western countries, etc)

 

[375Fox]

On my one PG hunt in Africa my PH would keep telling me to take the animal I was shooting at in the shoulder. This was very foreign to me. Neither I or anyone I hunt with here purposefully tries to shoot a big game animal in the shoulder. I have seen shoulders hit and it destroys that shoulder's edible meat.

Vitals are further forward on African animals. You have to aim on shoulder. A good reason for bonded bullets as well when compared to North American game.

 

[Dr Ray]

Vitals are further forward on African animals. You have to aim on shoulder. A good reason for bonded bullets as well when compared to North American game.

True and agreed

 

[Rule 303]

In my 270 I use to swear by Nosler 130 grain solid base, very accurate and just plain worked on pigs. Nosler stopped making these so I went to the 130 grain Core Lokt. Not quite as accurate but just worked. Shot my first 2 Tahr with this bullet. Well the 3rd as well but the bullet just zipped straight through, the exit wound showed no signs of opening up. He was heart shot and only ran a short distance, about 90mts. The same happened on the next couple of pigs I shot, so stopped loading them.

My point being that standard cup and core normally work well on animals that are not big with tough, thick hides. However the manufacturing of them appears not to guarantee consistency, premium bullets do.

I would suggest that when paying for an expensive hunt I would want every thing working in my favour that I can get. I still use cup and core in most of my rifles but for 358 and up if going after anything bigger than Red Deer I use, Woodleigh, some APC ( a mono metal) that I still have or the Aussie made Atomic 29 monos. Won't use Barnes as I have never had the shoot or work for me and heavens knows how many $ I sent Mr Barnes way trying to get them to shoot for me.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Vitals are further forward on African animals. You have to aim on shoulder. A good reason for bonded bullets as well when compared to North American game.

Really? Look at where this impala is hit. It didn't run sixty yards.

And this bull buffalo shot behind the shoulder maybe made it a hundred yards. I did shoot it again but he was done, shot through both lungs.

 

[Dr Ray]

In my 270 I use to swear by Nosler 130 grain solid base, very accurate and just plain worked on pigs. Nosler stopped making these so I went to the 130 grain Core Lokt. Not quite as accurate but just worked. Shot my first 2 Tahr with this bullet. Well the 3rd as well but the bullet just zipped straight through, the exit wound showed no signs of opening up. He was heart shot and only ran a short distance, about 90mts. The same happened on the next couple of pigs I shot, so stopped loading them.

My point being that standard cup and core normally work well on animals that are not big with tough, thick hides. However the manufacturing of them appears not to guarantee consistency, premium bullets do.

I would suggest that when paying for an expensive hunt I would want every thing working in my favour that I can get. I still use cup and core in most of my rifles but for 358 and up if going after anything bigger than Red Deer I use, Woodleigh, some APC ( a mono metal) that I still have or the Aussie made Atomic 29 monos. Won't use Barnes as I have never had the shoot or work for me and heavens knows how many $ I sent Mr Barnes way trying to get them to shoot for me.

Only deer I’ve ever lost is in the 270 using Nosler solid base 130 grain bullets. Just went through and the deer fell down but got up quickly and …
Never found.

 

[C.W. Richter]

'used to use the btsp interlocks in 30 ought 6 and 300 win mag and they performed phenomenally. They once had a 190 grain version. Have also used the 117 SST in 257 weatherby and they were phenomenal as well! I'll never forget a deer I took in Texas. It was something like 225 yards straight up a hill I mean it couldn't have been 10 yd horizontally from us... Shot the deer and it fell down the hill the landowner had to step aside and there it was where he was standing! Also tried the 160 grain RN interlocks in 6.5 and found that they did not hold together in short shots at high velocity. I would expect the same result with the 257 which has another 300 ft per second on most hot 6.5s, excepting the big weatherby which is the same velocity. I had almost forgotten about those Red box bullets until you mentioned! I know longer own any 35 cal guns but think I have a number of boxes of interlocks in 200 and 225 grains and possibly an old box of Remington core-lokt bullets as well.

 

[mark-hunter]

Really? Look at where this impala is hit. It didn't run sixty yards.

My first animal in Africa was Oryx, shot in the same spot with soft point 300 grain, 375 H&H, as your impala.

He run away, like nothing has happened to him.
Tracker spent 6 hours to find him, on scarce blood spoor, with a drop here and there.
When we caught up to him, still alive, and about to stand up, he was 600 yards away from place where I hit him.

I prefer shooting to the shoulder of African game. Regardless of vitals, when shoulder is broken, that is one leg less to run away with.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

'used to use the btsp interlocks in 30 ought 6 and 300 win mag and they performed phenomenally. They once had a 190 grain version. Have also used the 117 SST in 257 weatherby and they were phenomenal as well! I'll never forget a deer I took in Texas. It was something like 225 yards straight up a hill I mean it couldn't have been 10 yd horizontally from us... Shot the deer and it fell down the hill the landowner had to step aside and there it was where he was standing! Also tried the 160 grain RN interlocks in 6.5 and found that they did not hold together in short shots at high velocity. I would expect the same result with the 257 which has another 300 ft per second on most hot 6.5s, excepting the big weatherby which is the same velocity. I had almost forgotten about those Red box bullets until you mentioned! I know longer own any 35 cal guns but think I have a number of boxes of interlocks in 200 and 225 grains and possibly an old box of Remington core-lokt bullets as well.

@C.W. Richter
IF you ever want to get rid of those 35 cal projectiles give me a yell.
Bob

 

[SFRanger7GP]

@K95
I've never had a problem with Hornady interlocks ar the plastict tip version the SST.
Their round noses seem to hold together well.
I wonder how the 117grain round nose would go in the 25. I know it was loaded in the 257 Weatherby.
Bob

That Hornady 117gr RNSP is all I used in a Remington Model 8 in 25 Remington. That bullet at around 2200 fps hit brocket deer and javeli like Thor’s Hammer.

Safe hunting

 

[503]

Most people are going to shoot a box of shells to get a limit of ducks. Bad shots and undisciplined shooters even more. 1 box of 3” lead 12 gauge is 2.5 lbs of lead BBs. It’s a significant amount more lead compared to losing a few fishing sinkers.

According to science daily 4,382 tons of lead fishing weighs are sold in the US every year. So yea, just a few.

Lead Shot And Sinkers: Weighty Implications For Fish And Wildlife Health

Millions of pounds of lead used in hunting, fishing and shooting sports wind up in the environment each year and can threaten or kill wildlife, according to a new scientific report. Lead is a metal with no known beneficial role in biological systems, and its use in gasoline, paint, pesticides...

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[Hogpatrol]

Lead is the new freon. The enviro-freaks won't be satisfied until we're all eating our front yard, tree leaves and landscaping and driving pedal cars. It's getting to the point where the maladjusted mentally ill are controlling our lives.

 

[Tbitty]

@C.W. Richter
IF you ever want to get rid of those 35 cal projectiles give me a yell.
Bob

@C.W. Richter
+1 if there's more than Bob wants to take on. I'm still trying to find the right load combination for my Whelen.

 

[buffybr]

Not trying to be rude but were there that many “premium” bullets made when you shot those first couple sheep and elk? Just saying your moustache looked a lot dark and with less wisdom than your NWT Dall sheep.

You're right! I shot that elk in '76, the Bighorn rams in the early/mid '80s, and the Dall ram in '99. At least with the elk, I think that the only "premium" bullets available were the Nosler Partitions. The year after I shot that elk I had that .30-06 rechambered to .30 Gibbs, and for the next 20 or so years I hunted with 180 gr Nosler Partitions with that rifle.

I built that .257 Ackley in '77 primarily as a deer and antelope rifle, and one year I did try 100 gr Barnes bullets in it, the 117 gr Sierra GameKing bullets have worked so well in it on scores of deer and antelope (and a one shot DRT kill on my 2nd best 6x6 bull elk) that I still use the Sierras.

I went on my first South African hunt in 2000 and used a borrowed 7mm Rem Mag rifle. The most accurate bullets that the rifle's owner had were 140 gr Ballistic tips, so that was what I hunted with. They were on the light side, but I did make one shot kills with them on a Kudu bull, 2 Impala rams, a Limpopo Bushbuck, a Gemsbok, a Blue Wildebeast, and a Blesbok. As I posted earlier, bullet placement is more important than bullet construcion.

 

[375Fox]

Really? Look at where this impala is hit. It didn't run sixty yards.
View attachment 556296
And this bull buffalo shot behind the shoulder maybe made it a hundred yards. I did shoot it again but he was done, shot through both lungs.
View attachment 556298View attachment 556299

You would greatly benefit from reading the perfect shot by Kevin Robertson. Vitals on African animals are further forward. It’s a fact. You run the risk of wounding animals if you want to believe the vitals are the same location as North America. If you made the shot on the buffalo where you shot your impala you would have a long tracking session in front of you.

 

[C.W. Richter]

@C.W. Richter
+1 if there's more than Bob wants to take on. I'm still trying to find the right load combination for my Whelen.

IF i recall correctly there are paperback books on pet loads for specific cartridges and there's one for the 35W! friend has a 35W AI but it's a pretty old custom safe queen to be sold oneday (Paul Jaeger). the factories made some weird decisions with respect to rifling twist at times in the past.

 

[C.W. Richter]

You would greatly benefit from reading the perfect shot by Kevin Robertson. Vitals on African animals are further forward. It’s a fact. You run the risk of wounding animals if you want to believe the vitals are the same location as North America. If you made the shot on the buffalo where you shot your impala you would have a long tracking session in front of you.

No different than where I'd shoot a deer (archery or rifle.) Follow back of f. leg up to 1/3 way up the body. This will kill virtually anything. Now, giraffe, croc, ele and hippo require some further study!!! Adder required some quick thinking, but head (off) shot it was! I believe the diff is exaggerated.