What’s the thoughts on the .223 on all plains game with a match bullet trend?

[pilar]

I’m truly baffled with these guys post on rockslide that , a .223 , 22cm , 22-250 ,ect
Shooting a 77gr match bullet , is more than adequate for hunting kudos, eland , gembuck , waterbuck, ect ( large PG ) , shooting a unbonded 22cal explosive bullet through the ribs , seems like a disaster to me , yet there are multiple people saying explosive small caliber is more effective then say a 7x57 with a bonded bullet.
What’s your opinion? I’m sure you can see I disagree

One response
“”
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.””

 

[skydiver386]

Big fat NO GO in my opinion. Can it be done? Of course it can, but I'd be willing to bet for every spectacular success, there will be several spectacular failures.

I'd also be willing to bet these shooters that think the larger antelope are so easily killed have never hunted them .

I've tracked animals that were hit with to little steam, and the sick feeling it puts in my stomach is something I don't care to repeat.

 

[Mekaniks]

Barnes makes a .224 62g TTSX that would be a killing machine with the right cartridge, rifle and shooter...
No way would I want to see anyone doing it with varmint or match bullets....In any caliber....

 

[Ridge Runner]

@poco

Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.

Not this guy could or couldn't have hunted Africa with a 22 caliber centerfire. But, I do find it a bit much; him saying he has shot 20 oryx/gemsbok in one year.

And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.

A client shows up with a 223/ 5.56, 22CM, 22-250 and with this attitude,...and wanting to hunt the bigger PG species. I see an instant personality conflict.

I'll say BS! Then demand to see photos, name(s) and location(s) of the outfitter(s) and PH(s) he hunted with, and have a copy of the country or countries hunting regulations/ laws allowing the use of 22 caliber centerfire so I can verify his claim.

The whole truth would most likely be:

He showed up with his 22 centerfire to hunt the smaller and medium size PG. And looked over a herd of 20 oryx/gemsbok for a shooter animal.

OR

Is he omitting he had to use a bigger caliber rental rifle to shoot his claimed 20 oryx/gemsbok?

He claims he shot 20 oryx this year.

Questions are:

a) How many did he kill with his 22 centerfire?
b) How many shots did it take him per oryx?
c) How many wounded animals werer killed by his PH(s) using a proper caliber rifle?
d) How many animals were lost?
e) How many animals were recovered?

Is killing 20 oryx in a year plausible? Yes.
Is killing them with a 22-250 plausible? Maybe.
Using a varmit or match "exploding" bullet? Not likely.

 

[CBH Australia]

Barnes makes a .224 62g TTSX that would be a killing machine with the right cartridge, rifle and shooter...
No way would I want to see anyone doing it with varmint or match bullets....In any caliber....

Well I guess if they were loaded in a .22creedmoor it would change the odds of losing game with a new cartridge that excels past 600m. Think of the possibilities.

 

[flatwater bill]

While planning my eland hunt, several PH's sent me pics of bulls that allegedly (and apparently) weighed in at about 1 ton. We also talked about failure to cleanly kill them with several cartridges including a 308, a 6.5CM and others. While I am a fan of light rifles in general, this accumulated data prompted me to take a 300 Win Mag on my eland hunt, and to use a 200 grain Barnes at 2870fps. This load proved just right. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I remember two mule deer bucks that I shot with a 223 and 55 grain Win soft point. Both with poor results, and only one recovered. There was no excuse for such behavior on my part, and it will never happen again. Varmint bullets are for varmints. Plains game deserves better.....FWB

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I’m truly baffled with these guys post on rockslide that , a .223 , 22cm , 22-250 ,ect
Shooting a 77gr match bullet , is more than adequate for hunting kudos, eland , gembuck , waterbuck, ect ( large PG ) , shooting a unbonded 22cal explosive bullet through the ribs , seems like a disaster to me , yet there are multiple people saying explosive small caliber is more effective then say a 7x57 with a bonded bullet.
What’s your opinion? I’m sure you can see I disagree

One response
“”
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.””

What are you doing on Rockslide? That forum is a shithole. Ugh!

Any PH that lets a client hunt plains game with .223 should lose his license. I remember when they handed me an M16 at the range during basic training 1972. "Are you kidding me? Our guys in Vietnam are trying to kill people with these pea shooters?" Drill sergeant explained Pentagon logic: six Vietcong needed to take care of every wounded. That's seven Cong removed from combat. Someone should have told them wounded enemy is still capable of returning fire and killing our soldiers. Dead ones not so much.

 

[Zambezi]

I’m truly baffled with these guys post on rockslide that , a .223 , 22cm , 22-250 ,ect
Shooting a 77gr match bullet , is more than adequate for hunting kudos, eland , gembuck , waterbuck, ect ( large PG ) , shooting a unbonded 22cal explosive bullet through the ribs , seems like a disaster to me , yet there are multiple people saying explosive small caliber is more effective then say a 7x57 with a bonded bullet.
What’s your opinion? I’m sure you can see I disagree

One response
“”
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.””

Just the fact that there is a group of wannabe's sitting around agreeing that a .223 is good for all plains game tells me all I need to now.

Average age: 19 (up to 40 and living in parent's basement)
Favourite pastime: Xbox or Playstation
Favourite argument: which of the above is better
Best game to get ready for .223 Safari: Call of Duty
Brain cells: 4 (in their group of 7)

 

[Mountaineer]

Best question to ask is how many misses have you had. With small caliber you can hit animals and have no blood trail so you think it’s a clean miss.

 

[Philip Glass]

I’m truly baffled with these guys post on rockslide that , a .223 , 22cm , 22-250 ,ect
Shooting a 77gr match bullet , is more than adequate for hunting kudos, eland , gembuck , waterbuck, ect ( large PG ) , shooting a unbonded 22cal explosive bullet through the ribs , seems like a disaster to me , yet there are multiple people saying explosive small caliber is more effective then say a 7x57 with a bonded bullet.
What’s your opinion? I’m sure you can see I disagree

One response
“”
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.””

I have no idea why guys use match bullets for hunting. I have taken quite a lot of game here and there with Barnes 70g in 5.56.
I think the threads you mention are more of a culling scenario. If you have waited your whole life to take one wildebeest would you want a small caliber? Not me.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m going to guess that they either haven’t shot many critters, or they haven’t used anything other than a 223. Anyone with experience with the 223 and a larger cartridge will obviously know the difference.
I’d like them to see what a 30-06 will do.

 

[375Fox]

Irresponsible. I have no doubt a 223 slightly behind shoulder will kill most anything. What happens when you hit shoulder bone? Any PG a 223 will kill a 30/06 or 300 with 180 gr bonded bullets will kill more ethically. I’m not sure what motivates people to perform these type stunts. I also question what information they choose not to include.

 

[375Fox]

I think the threads you mention are more of a culling scenario. If you have waited your whole life to take one wildebeest would you want a small caliber? Not me.

Unfortunately it isn’t. I’ve tried to read the thread at the suggestion of another member here. There is some interesting results, but I still say irresponsible and putting the information out there for people who don’t know better is irresponsible as well. People looking to prove a point look for information to support that point.

I love my 223 and Barnes bullets, but I’ll also walk away from certain shots. I accept its limitations. I think you do as well.

 

[deewayne2003]

Using a .22 caliber rifle on animals of that size is like putting a muzzle brake on a .270....

There are people who do it, but to me it screams inexperience.

 

[CBH Australia]

I seriously think it’s wrong and shows their ignorance toward ethical hunting and the potential to lose game.
I know here in Australia that Roo shooters collectively take pigs and probably deer every night of the year with a .223.
I have shot pigs and Fallow deer with a .223 myself. In both examples above I’m talking about taking shots under 200m from a stationary vehicle and comfortable shooting position and for maybe with a shooting rest.
I remember a number of clean shots, headshots and a couple of botched shots.
One thing I clearly remember was using Hornady Z-Max in my .308 and shooting a pig dead across the creek at around 100m leaning on a branch and then later taking a shot under 100m with the same rifle and load hitting a bit far back slowing the pig. I then took an offhand shot at about 30m hitting on the shoulder. Better placement but the same bullet was to explosive for a tough shoulder at near muzzle velocity. I quickly dispatched it with a head shot but that’s a perfect example of why proper calibre, bullet construction and shot placement matter.
It wasn’t the calibre that was in question on this occasion. A .30 calibre 168gn projectile at close range created a lot of superficial damage on the shoulder pad.
Wildebeest might be the largest single animal that I have hunted so far but I have destroyed yarded Cattle using .38’s in a lever action using an adequate jacketed projectile dispatching them cleanly.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I’m truly baffled with these guys post on rockslide that , a .223 , 22cm , 22-250 ,ect
Shooting a 77gr match bullet , is more than adequate for hunting kudos, eland , gembuck , waterbuck, ect ( large PG ) , shooting a unbonded 22cal explosive bullet through the ribs , seems like a disaster to me , yet there are multiple people saying explosive small caliber is more effective then say a 7x57 with a bonded bullet.
What’s your opinion? I’m sure you can see I disagree

One response
“”
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.””

I "appreciate" the sales pitch for budding safari hunters using their ARs, after reading similar in black plastic prepper magazine! Whatever drives up demand, Yes? I'm certain I could take smaller PG with my .22 WMR, but I'll stick to proper M/V/E/SD mid-bores that are a pleasure to shoot and have proven quite effective on same. My one adjacent big farm neighbor has used a .22-250 for (thinner skinned than PG deer for eons...I love the 85 y/o guy and wouldn't tell him what to do...that said, I have found some of his deer 1/2-1 mi away from the POI with the rather low (i.e. 0.1-0.2) SD bullet exploded under the hide or striking a bone and calling it quits for the day. Same for .243s using low SD/BC 80ish gr varmint/target bullets. (Use the 100+ gr pills if you love the small stuff!) 100+ gr starts to make sense in hot .257s. .22 cal. doesn't make sense to many. Excepting the tiny antelope, most PG is solidly constructed to withstand predator attacks, and that demands More Gun. I admit, taking the tiny antelope w/ the .22 WMR and FMJs would be ideal. Love .22s on small game, woodchucks and coyotes!!! Wanted to bag a jackal that woke me up prematurely every a.m. in Namibia but the lil bastard eluded me when I sat out early. The notion put forth WILL sell a lot of bullets/ammo and clients will find themselves paying for animals neither killed nor recovered.

 

[Ridge Runner]

What are you doing on Rockslide? That forum is a shithole. Ugh!

Any PH that lets a client hunt plains game with .223 should lose his license. I remember when they handed me an M16 at the range during basic training 1972. "Are you kidding me? Our guys in Vietnam are trying to kill people with these pea shooters?" Drill sergeant explained Pentagon logic: six Vietcong needed to take care of every wounded. That's seven Cong removed from combat. Someone should have told them wounded enemy is still capable of returning fire and killing our soldiers. Dead ones not so much.

WOW.....7 to remove 1 wounded?.

My DIs claimed it only took 2 to remove 1 wounded. Thereby 3 combatants were removed.

Yeah...+1 on the wounded able to still fight.....and most likely till their death or until contact was broken.

Later on in another discussion the reason for the small caliber was weight. Soldiers could carry more ammo and other gear. Also political..... .mommies were outraged at their "babies" were killing/ mudering people. So the politicians adopted the smaller caliber claiming to these mommies, their "babies" were only wounding enemy soldiers and perhaps killing enemy soldiers by accident.

 

[375er]

.223 on large African game. Grow a pair and shoot a proper caliber or stay home and and shoot paper targets. Neither the caliber or the bullets were intended for big game.

 

[Doug3006]

No to the caliber. No to the match bullet. Just no.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

WOW.....7 to remove 1 wounded?.

My DIs claimed it only took 2 to remove 1 wounded. Thereby 3 combatants were removed.

Yeah...+1 on the wounded able to still fight.....and most likely till their death or until contact was broken.

Later on in another discussion the reason for the small caliber was weight. Soldiers could carry more ammo and other gear. Also political..... .mommies were outraged at their "babies" were killing/ mudering people. So the politicians adopted the smaller caliber claiming to these mommies, their "babies" were only wounding enemy soldiers and perhaps killing enemy soldiers by accident.

And of course a gassed up .22 bullet is so effective shooting through jungle brush. Pfft.

"Spray and pray." I heard that thinking kept the chaplains busy.

Six to remove and care for wounded + the wounded = seven off the battlefield, in theory anyway. I suspect Pentagon analysts greatly exaggerated the quality of health care in North Vietnam.

Shoot em to wound only with dinky .223. If that doesn't work, incinerate with napalm. Hmmm.