W&C Scott .600NE Shotgun Conversion ?

[Sarg]

Just looking at a few Doubles on line & saw this, meant to be a W C Scott ,600NE but so much on it looks like a late model Shotgun conversion to rifle ?

Just trying to put up a link.

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[grand veneur]

Above all, the price is too low for a pre-war double rifle caliber 600 Nitro Express built by W&C Scott and in good shape. It is mentioned that new barrels were placed into the original monobloc, which can be seen in the pictures because a step was created between the barrels and the action. That modified double gun barrels were used cannot be ruled out.

 

[Sarg]

Yes maybe, Prince of Wales/Bag grip is more often shotgun in the Nitro era on doubles & that huge step with no weight in the chambers going from breech face to monobloc, looks wrong & this doesn’t look like Pre War craftsmanship on the sights ?

Also looks like electric stylus engraving ?

 

[grand veneur]

I also believe that it is a modified shotgun to a double rifle. If this is really the case, it is very risky to call such a rifle an original pre-war rifle built by W&C Scott.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Just looking at a few Doubles on line & saw this, meant to be a W C Scott ,600NE but so much on it looks like a late model Shotgun conversion to rifle ?

Just trying to put up a link.

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

View attachment 640099

It will be interesting to see what the experts say but if this rifle is not exactly what it’s represented as being I would wager it’s once or twice removed from the hands of another seller GI who has sold firearms with similar issues..

 

[grand veneur]

There are a few gunmakers among the members of this Forum, perhaps one of them will comment on this topic.

 

[rookhawk]

Just looking at a few Doubles on line & saw this, meant to be a W C Scott ,600NE but so much on it looks like a late model Shotgun conversion to rifle ?

Just trying to put up a link.

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

View attachment 640099

This is the same gun by the same forger that I've seen for sale elsewhere. Previously with many other counterfeit guns at HyGr8D Guns or HyEnd Guns or something like that.

It looks like a 10 bore shotgun with a rib added, barrels fitted to the original monobloc, etc. Total amateur work. Value? Zero dollars.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This is the same gun by the same forger that I've seen for sale elsewhere. Previously with many other counterfeit guns at HyGr8D Guns or HyEnd Guns or something like that.

It looks like a 10 bore shotgun with a rib added, barrels fitted to the original monobloc, etc. Total amateur work. Value? Zero dollars.

I was waiting for you to reply as you commented on that seller before. I think they’re a member of AH…

 

[rookhawk]

I was waiting for you to reply as you commented on that seller before. I think they’re a member of AH…

I hate to stir the pot, but I'll stake my life on it that its a fake. It matched other fake guns from the original seller that had the same amateur hand hacking away at shotguns to create double rifles. An AH member got screwed on one that was from a very famous German maker allegedly (August Schuler) that was a farce.

Either the original gun dealer that purports to be an expert on double rifles is a con artist, or they are naive and bought an entire collection of faked guns.

Either way, lots of bad fakes all faked by the same hands, whether the gun was supposed to be British or German.

 

[rookhawk]

Yes maybe, Prince of Wales/Bag grip is more often shotgun in the Nitro era on doubles & that huge step with no weight in the chambers going from breech face to monobloc, looks wrong & this doesn’t look like Pre War craftsmanship on the sights ?

View attachment 640140
View attachment 640141

Also looks like electric stylus engraving ?

View attachment 640142
View attachment 640143

Note the luxurious electropencil that was famous amongst the best British Gun Maker's. NOT.

Here is a mid-grade, kinda basic WC Scott shotgun that would have cost a tiny fraction of the amount a true 600NE would cost. Compare the quality of their mass-market, bargain priced shotgun versus the fakey 600NE and you can see its as easy as comparing a Rembrandt from crayon scribble.

 

[steve white]

Would it even be safe?

 

[rookhawk]

Would it even be safe?

Nope. Not at all.

When you hear about modern "Monobloc" rifles using the "Chopper Lump" method, they forge the barrel chambers from a single, very durable forging. Then machine and file it to lock up to the action, then thread in tubes (barrels), then lay the ribs and install the sights.

But an old mid-grade or lower WC Scott ten bore shotgun was built on a shoe lump or demi-bloc typically. That means the chamber is a couple pieces of steel braised together. The metallurgy was designed to hold fast with about 8900PSI max loads.

Some knucklehead cut that very weak barrel down, pretended it was a chopper lump monobloc, and threw some tubes on it that have to hold back how much pressure? 45,000 psi? 60,000 psi?

Only in America my friends. Countries with proof laws send gunsmiths to prison for doing this kind of stuff.

 

[Sarg]

That’s what I was thinking, looks like reasonable workman ship in the actual build but not as advertised for sure.

So we think even the .600NE proofs are fake ?

From the looks it could be a Dovetail Lump mono bloc ?

Wouldn’t counterfeiting the proofs be a very illegal act even in the US ?

If someone was injured be this firearm be all sorts of legal ramifications to all parties involved, yes ?

 

[grand veneur]

The designation 600 N.E was certainly stamped later if you compare to the other marks. It seems unusual to me for a mark from a British Proof house.

On the picture you can see typical British proof marks of a DR caliber 600 Nitro Express.

W

 

[PerH]

I copied that picture and enlarged it , is it just me or does the material look like it’s been cut
Away some to allow space for new stamps .

 

[Hunter-Habib]

W&C Scott 600 Nitro Express double rifle

W&C Scott 600 Nitro Express double rifle for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Here's another suspicious one. Allegedly also a Webley & Scott .600 Nitro Express regulated for a mysterious 115Gr cordite loading.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

W&C Scott 600 Nitro Express double rifle

W&C Scott 600 Nitro Express double rifle for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Here's another suspicious one. Allegedly also a Webley & Scott .600 Nitro Express regulated for a mysterious 115Gr cordite loading.

That’s the seller that has sold questionable products in the past.

 

[PerH]

Didn’t Jeffery make their .600s exclusively with the underlever opener ?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

That’s the seller that has sold questionable products in the past.

It's a damn shame. I'm a real sucker for those beautiful Webley & Scott PHV-1 actions.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

It's a damn shame. I'm a real sucker for those beautiful Webley & Scott PHV-1 actions.

Actually I believe that’s the exact same “rifle”.