Rifle Actions (Ranked)

[Doug Hamilton]

Thank you for this anecdote, could you explain in layman’s terms how a CRF and a PF work differently that the situation you described could not happen with a CRF?

I own both, and clearly prefer CRF over PF, but mostly this is for their smoothness and good looks, more than any difference in reliability or safety.

As a reference, my centerfire PF rifle is a Mauser M03. My CRF rifles are dumoulin/francotte actioned.

I really would like to better understand the mechanics of those differences and how one is superior to the other, as this is not completely clear to me.

Thank you

I would very.much.like to explain in layman's terms exactly how the two actions differ and why the CRF is superior, but I am.not enough of an engineer to do it. The CRF controls the round from the magazine well all the way into the chamber, and the heavy claw extractor pulls the empty case out with better reliability than than the small clip extractor on most PF rifles. One gunsmith friend of mine once told me that he had replaced many PF extractors that had broken. Although extraction was not the problem in the story I related, the PH had other reliability issues with that rifle as well and sold it. He now hunts and backs up clients with CRF rifles only. This seems to be true of most PH's as well. There are people who could explain it much better than I can.

Is it possible that my story could have happened if the PH had been using a CRF rifle instead? Maybe, but it didn't. I tend to draw on my personal experience. To be fair, I have killed many deer, a couple of pronghorns, and some African PG with PF rifles and never had a failure, but just one at the wrong time could be catastrophic.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

It would seem another potential issue with push feed actions might arise if the gun is not vertical when bolt is cycled. Tipped to the right on a right hand rifle, is it not possible for the cartridge being loaded to go cock-eyed and jam or even fall out of the gun? CRF extractor has hold of the cartridge being loaded before the shell is released by feeding rails. The bolt always has a grip on any cartridge being loaded. Push feed extractor never has a hold of the rim until after the bolt is closed. With long cartridges especially, there's bound to be some point during cycling a fresh round when the cartridge is released by feeding rails and before bolt is closed that the cartridge is essentially free floating in the action. Those are only my hypothetical thoughts since I don't own a push feed rifle. Perhaps someone who uses them can expound further?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

No problem at all with the Ruger, I have a M77 original version and its fine but don't have a Hawkeye so I can't fairly judge, I think their RSM is a very fine action (wished I had one, or better yet, all 3). Actually its just about any 98 Mauser or variation that floats my boat. No issue with the No. 1 at all, How else do I explain having 16 of them to Momma if I don't like them. Lol

Come on Neil, let's have a picture of them all lined up, that would make my day.

 

[rookhawk]

Great question from the OP, the answers are all pretty good, but they drift between "brands" and "action types" with fluidity.

Everybody has their favorite "makers", and everybody has their favorite "actions" which may not be the same thing.

Favorite Actions:
1904 type Mannlicher
98 Mauser
H&H 7-pin sidelock
Anson & Deeley Boxlock
Dickson Triggerplate Action

Those five are enough to cover a few billion dollars in fine gun shopping for someone with the capital.

As for makers that I enjoy seeing those actions and their derivitive or proprietary copies:

Joseph Lang
Westley Richards
Dickson
Heym
Dakota
Rigby
John Roberts
George Gibbs
Harkom
MacNaughton
August Schuler
Jules Bury
Purdey
Boss
Griffin & Howe
Todd Ramirez
J.P. Smithson

 

[CoElkHunter]

It would seem another potential issue with push feed actions might arise if the gun is not vertical when bolt is cycled. Tipped to the right on a right hand rifle, is it not possible for the cartridge being loaded to go cock-eyed and jam or even fall out of the gun? CRF extractor has hold of the cartridge being loaded before the shell is released by feeding rails. The bolt always has a grip on any cartridge being loaded. Push feed extractor never has a hold of the rim until after the bolt is closed. With long cartridges especially, there's bound to be some point during cycling a fresh round when the cartridge is released by feeding rails and before bolt is closed that the cartridge is essentially free floating in the action. Those are only my hypothetical thoughts since I don't own a push feed rifle. Perhaps someone who uses them can expound further?

Well, your Browning A5 is a push feed. My Remington semi auto shotguns are push feed. My .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM Browning A Bolt is a push feed and I've killed a number of elk with it. I used a .300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM in Africa and killed twelve PG animals with it. I've never had a loading or ejection malfunction in rain, sleet, snow or in the dead of night. The mail (rounds) has always been delivered! LOL

 

[Flewis]

Well, your Browning A5 is a push feed. My Remington semi auto shotguns are push feed. My .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM Browning A Bolt is a push feed and I've killed a number of elk with it. I used a .300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM in Africa and killed twelve PG animals with it. I've never had a loading or ejection malfunction in rain, sleet, snow or in the dead of night. The mail (rounds) has always been delivered! LOL

We have 2 doubles at the house. Both push feeds.

 

[CoElkHunter]

We have 2 doubles at the house. Both push feeds.

Wow, push feeds? Maybe you should sell them and buy a Blaser R8? LOL

 

[Flewis]

Wow, push feeds? Maybe you should sell them and buy a Blaser R8? LOL

Volvo quit making the R8 and it won’t make it down my driveway. I’ll stick with trucks.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well, your Browning A5 is a push feed. My Remington semi auto shotguns are push feed. My .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM Browning A Bolt is a push feed and I've killed a number of elk with it. I used a .300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM in Africa and killed twelve PG animals with it. I've never had a loading or ejection malfunction in rain, sleet, snow or in the dead of night. The mail (rounds) has always been delivered! LOL

That .300WM was a Remington 700 DM (detachable magazine) with its "three rings of steel" PF bolt design. I only missed three animals but didn't lose a magazine. LOL

 

[Flewis]

That .300WM was a Remington 700 DM (detachable magazine) with its "three rings of steel" PF bolt design. I only missed three animals but didn't lose a magazine. LOL

One of my elk rifles is a custom 300 ultra, it weighs just under 6lbs. It’s also a Remington custom or K model.

 

[CoElkHunter]

One of my elk rifles is a custom 300 ultra, it weighs just under 6lbs. It’s also a Remington custom or K model.

Nice. The Remington 700 Safari "K" model has a Kevlar stock, blind magazine and very light. 6lbs. for me in a .300 Ultra Mag would be a bit much though. My Browning and Remington are each 8.5lbs. scoped. That's about as light as I want to go in those two cartridges and is fine for mountain hunting with a 25-30lb backpack.

 

[Flewis]

Nice. The Remington 700 Safari "K" model has a Kevlar stock and very light. 6lbs. for me in a .300 Ultra Mag would be a bit much though. My Browning and Remington are 8.5lbs. scoped. That's about as light as I want to go in those two cartridges and is fine for mountain hunting with a 25-30lb backpack.

Mine has a custom carbon fiber stock, it weighs less than a pound. My 458 Lott weighs 8.5 pounds with no scope. I may go red dot to keep the weight down.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Well, your Browning A5 is a push feed. My Remington semi auto shotguns are push feed. My .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM Browning A Bolt is a push feed and I've killed a number of elk with it. I used a .300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM in Africa and killed twelve PG animals with it. I've never had a loading or ejection malfunction in rain, sleet, snow or in the dead of night. The mail (rounds) has always been delivered! LOL

Seriously? I have hunted with several people using semi-autos in both Remington and Browning that fired one round and then jammed. I was deer hunting with my cousin when that happened with his BAR. Deer hunting with my buddies nephew when it happened with his Remington. Several times when duck hunting, I've seen it happen to others with their semi's at state refuges. I will never hunt anything with one.

As far as push-feed bolts go, I've never had a failure to function, personally, and I have killed many deer, a couple of pronghorns, and several PG with my M 70, 700 and 7. As I described the one time I was involved with a function failure happened to my PH. Things only have go bad once with a dangerous animal. Why risk it?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

We have 2 doubles at the house. Both push feeds.

Push-feed doubles? Now that's funny!

 

[Zambezi]

BSA No.1 (.177) springer pellet gun. With Limbsaver and 9-12 x 50 scope.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Seriously? I have hunted with several people using semi-autos in both Remington and Browning that fired one round and then jammed. I was deer hunting with my cousin when that happened with his BAR. Deer hunting with my buddies nephew when it happened with his Remington. Several times when duck hunting, I've seen it happen to others with their semi's at state refuges. I will never hunt anything with one.

As far as push-feed bolts go, I've never had a failure to function, personally, and I have killed many deer, a couple of pronghorns, and several PG with my M 70, 700 and 7. As I described the one time I was involved with a function failure happened to my PH. Things only have go bad once with a dangerous animal. Why risk it?

The only "jam(s)" I've ever had with my Remington 1100s (12&20), 11-87 or V3 since the mid '70s, was with the 12ga 1100 back in the '70s when I was reloading cardboard hulls. After several reloadings, every once in awhile the hull would separate from the brass base upon the ejection of the round. The base would be loose in the action and turning the now open ejection port upside down would cause the base to fall out. I would have to take the barrel off and pull out the cardboard hull with my fingers or pocket knife from the chamber. But I've hunted lots of dove, quail and pheasants with them along with quite a bit of trap, skeet and sporting clays over the years with no problems. Some duck and goose hunting but not a lot. I seldom cleaned them either except for running a pipe cleaner soaked in Hoppes through the two gas ports on the 1100s and 11-87. BTW, as of 1978 when the record was set, a Remington 1100 LT-20 (I have one) holds the record for the most shells fired out of an autoloading shotgun WITHOUT malfunction, cleaning or parts breakage with a record of over 24,000 rounds. It has yet to be broken. As far as DG hunting goes, I have never hunted anything in that category. I would use one of my CZ 550s if I ever have the opportunity to do so, but my PG rifle(s) of choice have been push feeds for mainly the lighter action weight. I'm not opposed to owning a CRF for PG but I don't have one at this time. Maybe a Winchester CRF in my future?

 

[CoElkHunter]

Push-feed doubles? Now that's funny!

Here's something more fun, a CRF Blaser R10? I bumped it up a couple of numbers. LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

BSA No.1 (.177) springer pellet gun. With Limbsaver and 9-12 x 50 scope.

CRF I assume? LOL

 

[Zambezi]

Best action? Belt fed mortar.

 

[Zambezi]

CRF I assume? LOL

Yep. Flintlock CRF