Light Weight 458 Lott Bullets

[michael458]

That’s a good idea, I’ll try them. Thanks for the help

Very Excellent........ If you can lay hands on the 450 North Fork Solids in .458, you will be a very happy shooter/hunter.......... and most likely will match up well with your 450 TSX loads, and if you can get the solids, OMG, get any North Fork softs you can.... the 450 Softs would be spot on for your mission, and any lighter 350-400 gr North Forks would accomplish Other Missions with ease as well.......

 

[TOBY458]

@michael458 , any word on the newer CEB 265gr Copper Raptors? Looks like more bands for longer COL, and made of copper instead of brass. Thoughts?

 

[baxterb]

Speaking of CEB, I just saw Dan moved the shop out here to Idaho!

 

[michael458]

@michael458 , any word on the newer CEB 265gr Copper Raptors? Looks like more bands for longer COL, and made of copper instead of brass. Thoughts?

Good Morning Toby...............

While I have not officially done terminals with the 265 Copper Raptors, I do have a small stock of them, and have loaded with comparison loads with the 250 Socom Brass Raptors. I can find no real differences in velocity, or pressures using the same loads with the two bullets in various larger capacity 458s. Naturally using H-4198 or RL 7 powders, which perform best with light large bore bullets, your pressures are so far down from Max that most of the time you can't get enough powder in the cases to exceed Max anyway. I found both shot to the same POI as well in various guns.

I never felt compelled to do terminals with these as I have zero doubts, and 110% sure they will perform exactly the same as the 250 Brass Raptors........ I have done comparison tests of similar in .358 caliber, brass/copper Raptors, and there was no difference in performance.

The cuts in the nose of these Raptors insure low velocity shear of the blades. And, you are correct, the Copper version has one more band, this adds versatility of seating depths if you need extra capacity, and have the magazine length.

458 is extremely versatile, and today we are truly blessed with bullets such as these, that can, have and will handle missions far beyond what was possible only a few years ago. In years gone by, I would have never even considered a 250-265 gr .458 bullet for anything beyond 45/70 and rabbits maybe squirrels. But I have used the 250s extensively on all large plains game up to zebra, even a cow buffalo, all with extreme success.......... the only base recovered was on the buffalo and a brain shot hippo on the ground, not in the water of course. Full penetration on all zebra, wildebeest and such....... all plains game DRT on the spot. I have no doubts the 265 Copper version will perform exactly the same.........

I have a very light 458 B&M with Ultimate stock, it is set up for nothing but light bullets, from these 250/265s up to max of 325 Solids............ I recently loaded some shelf ammo for this gun specifically using the 265 Raptor and 250 Lehighs, both at 2900 fps + in the 18 inch gun...........

And the 250--265 side by side...........................

 

[michael458]

Speaking of CEB, I just saw Dan moved the shop out here to Idaho!

Yes, indeed they did make the move, I believe early this year. They are up and running in the new complex ...............Dan has a passion for bigger, wide open spaces and Idaho was a proper fit for them. They do a lot of hunting there

 

[TOBY458]

Good Morning Toby...............

While I have not officially done terminals with the 265 Copper Raptors, I do have a small stock of them, and have loaded with comparison loads with the 250 Socom Brass Raptors. I can find no real differences in velocity, or pressures using the same loads with the two bullets in various larger capacity 458s. Naturally using H-4198 or RL 7 powders, which perform best with light large bore bullets, your pressures are so far down from Max that most of the time you can't get enough powder in the cases to exceed Max anyway. I found both shot to the same POI as well in various guns.

I never felt compelled to do terminals with these as I have zero doubts, and 110% sure they will perform exactly the same as the 250 Brass Raptors........ I have done comparison tests of similar in .358 caliber, brass/copper Raptors, and there was no difference in performance.

The cuts in the nose of these Raptors insure low velocity shear of the blades. And, you are correct, the Copper version has one more band, this adds versatility of seating depths if you need extra capacity, and have the magazine length.

458 is extremely versatile, and today we are truly blessed with bullets such as these, that can, have and will handle missions far beyond what was possible only a few years ago. In years gone by, I would have never even considered a 250-265 gr .458 bullet for anything beyond 45/70 and rabbits maybe squirrels. But I have used the 250s extensively on all large plains game up to zebra, even a cow buffalo, all with extreme success.......... the only base recovered was on the buffalo and a brain shot hippo on the ground, not in the water of course. Full penetration on all zebra, wildebeest and such....... all plains game DRT on the spot. I have no doubts the 265 Copper version will perform exactly the same.........

I have a very light 458 B&M with Ultimate stock, it is set up for nothing but light bullets, from these 250/265s up to max of 325 Solids............ I recently loaded some shelf ammo for this gun specifically using the 265 Raptor and 250 Lehighs, both at 2900 fps + in the 18 inch gun...........

View attachment 502895


And the 250--265 side by side...........................

View attachment 502896

Thanks for the info @michael458 ! I assume the weight difference is simply the copper vs brass construction. Aside from that, they look identical. IF, I decide to go back to Zimbabwe next year, I'll be after Buffalo and Tuskless again. I'm thinking these bullets will give me a one gun solution with a simple scope change. You know, for when a Hyena or Baboon needs some attention at 200 yards or so.....

 

[michael458]

I have a couple of good friends that long ago did 458 B&Ms for their many adventures. These guys, and their rifles have been all over the world and have taken all the big ones with their 458s, elephant, buffalo, hippo, lion and much more................

This past year one of the guys asked me what cartridge/rifle would be best for an upcoming hunt for elk and then on to bison, and stated certain cartridges like 300 Winchester, 338 Winchester and so forth....... He stated ranges on elk where he was going would be 200 yards on average.

My guys are not great gun enthusiasts, they are not looking for an excuse for a new rifle or cartridge, neither of them Hand Load, and I have been Hand Loading for them for years now. If they hunt elephant/buffalo, they use the 450 CEB #13 Solids and 420 Raptors in their 458s. If they are hunting any plains game or other similar they use the 250 Socom Raptors......... All proven, over and over again.......

My advice was just use your 458 B&M with the 250 Raptor loads for Elk. He was happy with that but wanted a little more scope power than our standards 1X4 Nikons. We found a new 2X10 or such Nikon, he sent scope and rifle for me to sort out for him. He had plenty of 250 Raptor loads on hand, so basically I mounted the scope for him, sighted in with 250 Raptors...... all good, almost...........

Bison? Hmmmm........... While I had confidence that on the exact perfect shot that he would do fine with the 250 Raptors........ but what if it is not Perfect? I wanted something that I knew for a fact would give him the advantage with bone busting penetration that might be required. My first choice was the 325 #13 Solids, if they matched POI with the 250s, we were set..... :Big problem, POI at 50 yards was just too far apart for me to be happy. Hmmmmmm....... OK, lets move a little closer in weight to see how his rifle reacted, I tried a 300 Lehigh Extreme, but damn POI was still too far apart at 50 yards to give me confidence. I needed a load and bullet that would give the penetration that might be required from less than perfect shots, but I needed POI to match or be very close to the 250 Raptor. My guy would not be able to change scopes, or even attempt to adjust on the fly.

I was running out of options, and his rifle did not do as well in the various bullet load POI matchup as mine were. I tried the 250 gr Copper Lehigh Extremes with the exact same load as the 250 Raptors........ At 50 yards the 250 Lehigh Extremes were 1 inch right of POI with the 250 Raptors. After careful thought and considering the bison would most likely be 50 yards or less, I decided this was the combo we would need to go with.

I had not tested the 250 Extremes, but I had tested the 225 Extremes in 458 B&M Super Short at 2670 fps. In my test medium I like anything over 20 inches of penetration to be able to call it "Buffalo Capable", and these little 225 Lehighs hit 26 inches total penetration. I had the 250 Lehighs running a tad over 2900 fps in the larger capacity 458 B&M in my guys rifle. Logic would dictate this bullet at this velocity would also be "Buffalo Capable"............ I suppose we would find out if it was Bison Capable now.

The plan was to use the 250 Raptors for the Elk. And then the 250 Lehighs for the Bison, no scope adjustments, no nothing, load up and shoot...........

Since I retired from buffalo hunting a few years ago, I had not personally tested the Lehigh Extremes for buffalo, but in all the test work it was clear to me they would do the job, and I would be trying them if not in retirement. None the less I was on pins and needles since my friends success was totally 100% dependent upon my advice and recommendations. Had it been me, I could easy make adjustments on the fly and would have had zero concerns............ but.....................

On September 12th my guy sent an email and this is what he said........

Michael

I’m back from my hunt and needless to say, the .458 and ammo was lethal. I got back and then headed out on biz trips with my boss etc. Back home now. Both one shot affairs, insurance put into the elk. Bison- 65 yards and elk, 95. Very mountainous area, 7500-8000 elevation.

Ok, naturally I started asking questions about performance and in particular about the Lehigh. I asked and this was his response...........

Michael- yes I’m very pleased with the rifle. Those in camp had never seen anything like it.
Ek- dropped him w one shot w 250 SOCOM. Put an insurance in to be safe.
Bison- Lehigh one shot. That bullet is lethal.
I have a couple videos of the shots. Will try and upload to a site.
What an adventure. 500+ pounds of meat coming. Let me know if you’d like some
Beau

And that is all I have.......... The hunt was successful, bullets and loads worked as they should have and as expected. I have photos of the bison and elk, bison is typical big bull bison, but that damn elk looked prehistoric, 11X10....... was incredible to say the least. I would not take liberty to post, so sorry.......

I will take liberty to post rifle and the box of ammo he took.........

And I took a few photos of the rifle while I had it here.................

I love my various .500 caliber B&Ms, but as good as they are, they are not nearly as versatile as the mighty 458s...................

Now this little story was about 458 B&M, but make no mistakes, it could have just as easily been 458 Winchester or 458 Lott, or other .458 caliber rifles.................. At .458 caliber, magic starts to happen.........................