I need a "Use Enough Gun" Gun. Suggestions?

[Green Chile]

Anyone can make a commitment to handling a bigger gun...but to prescribe that it needs to happen in a broad stroke is another thing altogether. Cowboy up?!? Terrible advice.

If you haven't figured it out yet, people with experience are pushing back on these posts. Furthermore, the people pushing back have extensive big bore experience...but we are not prescribing cowboy up to others...and in our own use cases, have often taken the 375 as a one gun solution for many types of hunts in Africa. What the industry does NOT need is a whole bunch of clients showing up with new 458s that haven't been shot much.

I'm hosting a DG group of clients next year and will be thrilled if most of the guns arriving are .375s. The PHs will relax around that. Buff are not that hard to kill (unless you have wounded them and then it's a different ball game). They also don't charge hardly ever. Ask Craig Boddington how many buff charges he has faced in taking over 100 of them...zero.

 

[Happy Myles]

My favorite is an ancient 416 Rigby. Not because of the caliber but because this particular rifle is so darn accurate. It consistently rewards me with one inch groups at the bench. It is also a beauty crafted decades ago at Griffin & Howe. Everyone who sees or uses it loves it.

 

[Green Chile]

Myles I would love to see your Griffin & Howe 416 Rigby, if you don't mind sharing photos here or privately.

 

[sgt_zim]

Anyone can make a commitment to handling a bigger gun...but to prescribe that it needs to happen in a broad stroke is another thing altogether. Cowboy up?!? Terrible advice.

If you haven't figured it out yet, people with experience are pushing back on these posts. Furthermore, the people pushing back have extensive big bore experience...but we are not prescribing cowboy up to others...and in our own use cases, have often taken the 375 as a one gun solution for many types of hunts in Africa. What the industry does NOT need is a whole bunch of clients showing up with new 458s that haven't been shot much.

I'm hosting a DG group of clients next year and will be thrilled if most of the guns arriving are .375s. The PHs will relax around that. Buff are not that hard to kill (unless you have wounded them and then it's a different ball game). They also don't charge hardly ever. Ask Craig Boddington how many buff charges he has faced in taking over 100 of them...zero.

I'm not much with the cowboy up, either.

That said, KR used to help run a PH school in ZA, one of their classes was all female locals. They started them off on "safely" toting around galvanized pipe the length of a rifle. Then they graduated to 22LR to learn how to shoot, then I believe to 30-06, then to 458WM, all in the space of about 3 or 4 months.

Jumping to a 458WM is no small task, but they all had to put in the range time, something which a lot of guys with a big medium don't seem to do enough.

I only brought my 9.3 last August, even though I knew I was going after buffalo. I still put about 200 rounds down range the last couple months, and I hadn't done nearly enough practice with my 404J because I'd been vainly hoping for Swift to start delivering. By the time I gave up on Swift, it was too late to start working on something else and be able to put in enough range time. I won't make that mistake again - it'll either be NF or Barnes.

 

[Brian]

Gentlemen, I thought that my "Cowboy up" expression would be OK. I meant it in the best possible way. It was an attempt to be humorous. Oops! No offence intended. Brian

 

[Happy Myles]

Green Chilie, I will try to send a photo.View attachment 695109View attachment 695109]

 

[Brian]

Anyone can make a commitment to handling a bigger gun...but to prescribe that it needs to happen in a broad stroke is another thing altogether. Cowboy up?!? Terrible advice.

If you haven't figured it out yet, people with experience are pushing back on these posts. Furthermore, the people pushing back have extensive big bore experience...but we are not prescribing cowboy up to others...and in our own use cases, have often taken the 375 as a one gun solution for many types of hunts in Africa. What the industry does NOT need is a whole bunch of clients showing up with new 458s that haven't been shot much.

I'm hosting a DG group of clients next year and will be thrilled if most of the guns arriving are .375s. The PHs will relax around that. Buff are not that hard to kill (unless you have wounded them and then it's a different ball game). They also don't charge hardly ever. Ask Craig Boddington how many buff charges he has faced in taking over 100 of them...zero.

Green Chile,

You always post some good points and some of your opinions are different than mine. That's the best thing about these forums. The variety of view points make it interesting and I learn a lot more than if every poster had the opinion. I get value out your post and I thank you. Brian

 

[9Point3]

I’m not sure if this helps the recoil management conversation but why not take a shotgun and warm up with it. A 20 gauge turkey or buckshot load should (?) get you into 30+ ft-lbs of recoil energy. A 12 gauge turkey or buckshot load should (?) get you into 40+ ft-lbs of recoil. Switch out (or rotate in and out) with the big bore rifle. Mix in some field loads in the shotgun to help with flinching, if needed.

My 416 Taylor with 400s has a stronger feel than my 9.3x62 with 286s. Mixing in the 12 gauge helped warm up to 400s.

 

[Happy Myles]

Send photo

 

[375Fox]

I’m not sure if this helps the recoil management conversation but why not take a shotgun and warm up with it. A 20 gauge turkey or buckshot load should (?) get you into 30+ ft-lbs of recoil energy. A 12 gauge turkey or buckshot load should (?) get you into 40+ ft-lbs of recoil. Switch out (or rotate in and out) with the big bore rifle. Mix in some field loads in the shotgun to help with flinching, if needed.

My 416 Taylor with 400s has a stronger feel than my 9.3x62 with 286s. Mixing in the 12 gauge helped warm up to 400s.

I had dummy shells loaded so I can’t tell the difference. Having a friend load your rifle is the same. Everyone wants to practice more with live rounds. When you pull the trigger and it goes click you find out what you really do. Recoil covers up a micro flinch at last second a lot of people don’t realize they have. Unless it’s a particular circumstance I don’t shoot more than 5 magnum cartridges at the range a day. If you have bad habits on the 5 shooting an extra 15 won’t break them but dry fire you think is live really identifies them. It’s also a lot cheaper than live rounds.

 

[1972RedNeck]

I have a pair of Mauser 98s in 375 Weatherby. One factory and one I had converted from H&H.

There is no reason to not convert to a Weatherby in my opinion. Drop in an H&H round in a pinch and you lose maybe 25 fps. Still a tack driver. Drop in a Weatherby round and you are 200+ fps over the H&H.

I have never been hunting outside of North America so I have no experience with dangerous game. But in my experience with tough NA game, 405 grain .458 bullets at 2400 fps mv are more effective than 300 gr .375 bullets at 3k fps mv even at 300 yards. At 500 yards the 375 is my preference, but the 458 would still be equally, if not more effective provided you can adjust for the extra drop and flight time.

 

[Happy Myles]

Trying again. The three bullets represent three dead buffalo. Two over 45 inches.

 

[Odinsraven]

416 rigby in cz 550 get comfortable with it 200 rounds then try a 458 win ...if you don't like then 458 then you have found your solution

 

[AimSmall]

Well, OP already acquired a 416, so at least the first decision has been made. Could not agree more! While I love the 375 - it is a medium bore. In a tough situation I would wager no DG PH in Africa would make it his go to.

Best of luck on all of those hunts! (And what a lucky man to have a wife like that!)

 

[Azklmsr]

Well, OP already acquired a 416, so at least the first decision has been made. Could not agree more! While I love the 375 - it is a medium bore. In a tough situation I would wager no DG PH in Africa would make it his go to.

Best of luck on all of those hunts! (And what a lucky man to have a wife like that!)

I am a lucky guy for sure!!!

While working on my 375 for this hunt and 416 Rem for the following, I will continue to work on my running (about 15 miles a week avg) I don't have to out-run the buff, I just gotta be able to outrun 1 of the guys with us!

On recoil, I find the 375 no issue. Bench with 20 rounds of heavy loads are not bad sessions. The 416 I'll start slow with and work into it. I have no doubt I'll get comfy.

1972Redneck,

I've not heard a single negative comment on the 375 Weatherby from someone who uses one. 378, different story. I appreciate your bravery LOL! To me the modest throttle push seems like a good idea and allows 350 grain pills to fly in the 2500 ish range. Seems like a good place. Might give it a try after my next hunt.

Bryan,

Is it ok with you if we let my wife shoot the sable with something smaller? Perhaps Dieter's 243?

Good evening all

Kurt

 

[Red Leg]

Trying again. The three bullets represent three dead buffalo. Two over 45 inches.

And classic G&H side mount.

 

[Monski]

I am a lucky guy for sure!!!

While working on my 375 for this hunt and 416 Rem for the following, I will continue to work on my running (about 15 miles a week avg) I don't have to out-run the buff, I just gotta be able to outrun 1 of the guys with us!

On recoil, I find the 375 no issue. Bench with 20 rounds of heavy loads are not bad sessions. The 416 I'll start slow with and work into it. I have no doubt I'll get comfy.

1972Redneck,

I've not heard a single negative comment on the 375 Weatherby from someone who uses one. 378, different story. I appreciate your bravery LOL! To me the modest throttle push seems like a good idea and allows 350 grain pills to fly in the 2500 ish range. Seems like a good place. Might give it a try after my next hunt.

Bryan,

Is it ok with you if we let my wife shoot the sable with something smaller? Perhaps Dieter's 243?

Good evening all

Kurt

Congrats on your rifles and plans to use them! I think you will be well prepared and it will work out fine for you. 375 for 1st buffalo and your 416 down the road for elephant. Yes, a 375 may meet all your needs but It sounded like you wanted a different rifle all along. And that is reason enough. Like most, I started hunting Africa with buffalo, etc and a 375, then over time, I went with rifles in 458 Lott, 470, and 505 Gibbs. Each time going bigger, I swore I was at my absolute recoil tolerance limit. I own some 416s and a 404 Jeffery but haven't used them yet. Someday hopefully. My 375 is still very high among my favorites.

 

[Philip Glass]

Howdy Gents/Ladies,

I'm set for my 1st safari next June. Dieter Prinsloo at Mattanjasafaris has graciously agreed to teach me to hunt DG along with a few others in Limpopo next year, placing him in same courageous as the fellow that taught me to fly some 15 years ago. I'm pursuing a Buff and some plains game and will likely get talked into a hippo. I've picked up a 375 H&H in a Model 70 that is shooting 1-hole groups for me with heavy loads.

Dieter is working with me to plan a 2027 Zim hunt for Trophy Elephant, Buff, and a Leopard. While he as assured me the 375 will do the job, I'm considering a power upgrade and would love experienced input. On my list are pushing the 375 to 375 WBY. I cannot find a person that has actually done that that speaks negatively. Plenty that speculate, but none with experience. Next on the list would be a 416. I really like both the Ruger and CZ in 416 Rigby. Terrific classic. A 416 Rem on a model 70 makes more sense of course. If brass were available, the 416 Ruger would be in the discussion mix. I do not shoot factory rounds in any of my guns. Any experience with 416 vs 458 win performance on Elephant? love to hear real world experiences. Same with 375 WBY.

I'm not generally recoil sensitive with 20 round bench sessions with the 375 being a norm. That said, I don't want to go too big and become the guy that flinches.

Looking forward to thoughts and thanks for the input

Kurt

Go for the .458 and stay away from Weatherby. Get the gun and get to work with it years before you big safari.

 

[M70375!]

Stick with what you have and let it rip,...if determined to go bigger get a 416 of any designation, it will hit a little harder but won't be a real big adjustment from a shooting standpoint. I personally like the 416 rigby, but you could just get another model 70 in 416 rem, seems most sensible and guns would feel the "same"

The recoil of the Rem is going to be less than the Rigby

 

[Tex .416]

The recoil of the Rem is going to be less than the Rigby

I have both and that is not necessarily correct. Rifles for the .416 Rigby tend to have larger and thus heavier receivers, which add 1 - 1.5 pounds depending on the rifle. The extra weight makes a difference. Obviously, that is a generalization, the specific rifles used for comparison determines the final answer.