Calibers that make your Professional Hunter shudder

[steve white]

We all try to make good choices when selecting our rifles, but are there some choices that a PH would rather we NOT have made? Certainly concerning DG, but also recommendations that minimize wounded/lost plains game as well. A poor choice could not only cause unnecessary suffering to the prey, but also cost the hunter a lot of money in hunting days lost while tracking down wounded animals--and sometimes another hunting partner has days put on hold while tracking is underway.
It may be difficult to accept that PHs don't value our "sacred cows," but better to hear the truth as they have long experience on the ground?
And I wouldn't consider it OT for bullet choices they plainly disapprove of...

 

[Hunter-Habib]

.460 Weatherby Magnum gets the most adverse reaction. And with good reason (bonus if it comes with one of those beastly muzzle brakes). Closely followed by the .378 Weatherby Magnum. I know that this is an oversimplification, but African white hunters are generally not too fond of Weatherby calibers (or rifles, for that matter).

And as a general rule, bringing calibers which your white hunter doesn't think you can physically handle. For example, a lot of white hunters shudder if a really frail and skinny looking client comes into camp with a .577 or .600 Nitro Express. Or a .505 Gibbs or .500 Jeffery.

The 10.75x68mm Mauser is hated by a lot of white hunters for elephant, Cape buffalo, hippo and rhino hunts. Although they generally tolerate it for lion and leopard. The .458 Winchester Magnum and .416 Remington Magnum are despised by some white hunters (although to a much much lesser extent now than in the 1980s) who hunt in hot places like the Zambezi valley.

A lot of them find the .600 Over Kill to be plain pretentious and the .700 Nitro Express to be nothing but a conversation piece which has no serious place in dangerous game hunting.

I know a lot of white hunters who are extremely apprehensive about wildcat calibers, as well.

In regards to bullet choices, a lot of the old hands strongly disapprove of using all copper monolithic bullets (such as Barnes TSX) for hunting lion and leopard. They prefer traditional lead cored bullets for the great cats, instead (such as the Nosler Partition). My own experience sides up with them.

Younger white hunters generally think pretty lowly of Remington Core Lokts and other Cup & Core style bullets. It's only when I show them the various photos of all the plains game which I've successfully taken with Remington Core Lokts over the years (starting in 1974) ... that they finally believe me.

 

[Phil Giordano]

As for the Weatherbys, my experience is limited to the my 300, but I can well understand why some PHs dislike them - mine it's really accurate....but only when it's really cold, and as soon the temperature goes over 10° (celsius) the groups open and open. At 25° it shot very bad. So I can only imagine what can appen in Africa

 

[JimP]

As for the Weatherbys, my experience is limited to the my 300, but I can well understand why some PHs dislike them - mine it's really accurate....but only when it's really cold, and as soon the temperature goes over 10° (celsius) the groups open and open. At 25° it shot very bad. So I can only imagine what can appen in Africa

If you are loading you own cartridges I would guess that you have a temperature sensitive powder in your cases.

I've taken my .340 Weatherby to Africa twice now and both PH's were impressed with it's performance at both the range and on animals. My loading uses RL22 which is temperature sensitive but I develop my loads in my summer time with temperature around 80 degrees F so I have a wide range of temperatures that I can shoot at without it affecting my point of impact or performance.

As for what would make a PH shudder, I would say any cartridge that the client can't shoot properly and might be scared of the recoil.

 

[Phil Giordano]

Yes, you're right, I know I could reload for it a less temperature sensitive recipe, the problem is that here in Italy I can't find ANY powder suited for a 300 Wby at the moment. That, since the end of '21. I shot Norma factory load, Oryx 180. They use MRP that I guess is the same of your R22 and as soon it warms a bit, groups go crazy. Less sensitive, but still too much, H4831 I still have. With Hornady 200 e
EldX factory a bit better. Anyway as a caliber by itself, I find it more heat sensitive than 300 Winch or 8x68S, a couple of caliber I like much more.

 

[Rare Breed]

We all try to make good choices when selecting our rifles, but are there some choices that a PH would rather we NOT have made? Certainly concerning DG, but also recommendations that minimize wounded/lost plains game as well. A poor choice could not only cause unnecessary suffering to the prey, but also cost the hunter a lot of money in hunting days lost while tracking down wounded animals--and sometimes another hunting partner has days put on hold while tracking is underway.
It may be difficult to accept that PHs don't value our "sacred cows," but better to hear the truth as they have long experience on the ground?
And I wouldn't consider it OT for bullet choices they plainly disapprove of...

It is not really about caliber as it is about two things: 1. Can you shoot it well enough to make the first shot count every time. 2. Leave the muzzle breaks at home
You do these two things you are good to go

 

[Phil Giordano]

This appens in cold months - same load in temp more than 15°C, groups at 100 become apple size...

 

[Ryan]

From what My PHs and outfitters from southern Africa and friends up here in Alaska I chatted with have grumbled about.

The 6.5 Creedmoor, because people expect too much from it. Not a good round for anything larger than a blesbok. Yet the latest hype and then lore about moose in Sweden dropping with the 6.5 Swede has fueled way too many people to think it's up to par for the bigger animals.

Magnums, particularly Weatherby's. Not because they don't work, but because the hunter can't shoot it well. If you can, great, that means you put time in behind it, but many don't. My last outfitter had a general disdain for Weatherbys. I've heard several first hand stories of the guy that showed up to camp and shot a shotgun spread because he kept flinching from a magnum in a light rifle. I know of a unrecovered moose a guy blamed on his 300 Win mags performance instead of his poor shot.

 

[Sarg]

Any thing with a Muzzle break, 460 Weatherby, 378 Weatherby & 30-378 Weatherby !

All dam fine killers if the owner can shoot them well but this seems very rare .

In defense of Weatherbys the 300 Weatherby & 270 Weatherby have been great killers in the hands of my hunters over the years !

 

[crs]

I have never had anyone, PH or otherwise criticize my choice of rifles, ammo, scope, or any other hunting or shooting equipment.
On my first plains game sAFARI, i HAD 6 ONE SHOT KILLS WITH MY RUGER .338 wIN mAG. mY HUNTING BUDDY USED THE .338 FOR A ONE SHOT KILL ON A big BULL ELAND.

oN MY FIRST dg HUNT WITH MY 1895 .405, FIRST SHOT THROUGH TGE HEART AND SECOND THROUGH THE PELVIS TO DROP THE CRITTER. DRT.

i MAY TEND TO USE A LITTLE MORE GUN.

 

[meigsbucks]

On my first safari, my PH had me lean over the truck hood to check my sights, Afterword, he told me that he looks to see if the client can handle his rifles. He said some can’t handle their DG rifle and he had a heavier (weight) .375 for them to use.

 

[Inline6]

The 6.5 Creedmoor, because people expect too much from it. Not a good round for anything larger than a blesbok. Yet the latest hype and then lore about moose in Sweden dropping with the 6.5 Swede has fueled way too many people to think it's up to par for the bigger animals.

I'm not saying it is the bees knees, it is way more capable then you are stating. It gets bad press because people make bad shots. They think because they have a 6.5CM it should be the Hammer of Thor. As long a the bullet cuts hair the animal should fall over dead. Have killed and have watched many kills with a 6.5CM. If you put the bullet where it's supposed to go (and use the correct bullet for the job), it performs like it should. I have seen from a Porcupine to a Bison killed with a 6.5CM not hearsay witnessed when my sons pulled the trigger.

 

[Angelo_orygun]

I'm not saying it is the bees knees, it is way more capable then you are stating. It gets bad press because people make bad shots. They think because they have a 6.5CM it should be the Hammer of Thor. As long a the bullet cuts hair the animal should fall over dead. Have killed and have watched many kills with a 6.5CM. If you put the bullet where it's supposed to go (and use the correct bullet for the job), it performs like it should. I have seen from a Porcupine to a Bison killed with a 6.5CM not hearsay witnessed when my sons pulled the trigger.

The Wildabeest on my wall agrees 100% with you!

 

[RTG]

The 6.5 Creedmoor, because people expect too much from it. Not a good round for anything larger than a blesbok. Yet the latest hype and then lore about moose in Sweden dropping with the 6.5 Swede has fueled way too many people to think it's up to par for the bigger animals.

One has got to know their limitations but the 6.5 is capable of much more than just a 85KG blesbok. I have successfully taken pronghorn, deer and elk with the 6.5CM. Hit the lungs and the critters fall down. It’s not a mighty cartridge, but an efficient one. You do your job, it does its job.

If hunting only elk, I’ll take a 300, but when hunting with multiple tags in my pocket (like this week) the 6.5 gets carried the most.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Ask any guide anywhere from Alaska to Africa and they’ll tell you that what makes them cringe and shake their heads is the client that shows up with a firearm they can’t handle and the attitude that “ don’t matter where you hit’em with this baby, they’re going down”…… and then proceeds to gut shoot every animal he shoots at. Makes for a long hunt. And not in a good way.

 

[Ryan]

Gents, I won't say the 6.5 Creedmoor won't do the job, I will say it doesn't have a lot of margin for error. If you've practiced, know your and the weapons limits and only take that correct shot, it does its job. That last part is where outfitters have issue. People stretch yardage and/or take marginal angle shot because they just have to prove it can be done and now your PH has to deal with a long tracking job. PHs remember what put the animals on the ground fast and what didn't. I'm just telling you what I've heard didn't.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Amazing stories…

I’ve only heard that most PH’s despise muzzle breaks. When hunting with a PH I take mine off and use a thread protector. So it’s a non-issue for me.

Any PH (or Guide) I’ve hunted with only wanted to watch me zero my rifle to confirm that I shoot it well consistently… Obviously they know in advance the caliber I’m using.

.375 H&H, 300 RUM, 7MM REM
MAG, and .243

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I'll answer for Bob: showing up with a .243.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I'll answer for Bob: showing up with a .243.

Really?

SOUTH AFRICA: .243 On Safari In The Waterberg Mountains!

I Booked this trip in January this year at Vegas SCI after my dear friend Steve (he’s in his 70’s) showed interest and finalized it after confirming a New Zealand hunt was not available (at the time) for this year. Side note: most of the NZ outfitters that were there had US reps in their booths...

www.africahunting.com

I guess I didn’t get that memo either…

 

[ARHinAK]

Nighthawks story about his Safari with the .243 pretty much sums it up, at least for me. It’s not the caliber of the rifle used, in question, but rather the caliber of the Rifleman.
Most people are probably over gunned, it seems to be a common theme here.