Caliber Comparison

tarbe

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Well now, as one who stares at these long mathematical comparisons on a daily basis let me digress just for a moment.

Irrespective of the valid and valuable presentation of the initiating author, when the smoke finally clears ( no pun intended but still acknowledged) I believe we are left with something of a subjective decision to make.

While charts and graphs can be, in fact, most impressive and if you are in the sales game, a most useful tool, life often boils down to this singular query:

What has worked, or for that matter proven effective, in the past?

In that I offer as follows:

PG:
.275 Rigby 1892
.30/06 Springfield 1906

Medium (can go both ways)
.375 Holland 1912
9.3 x 62 mm 1906

DG
.416 Rigby 1911
450/400 N.E. 1896
.470 N.E. 1900

My subjective assumption then is essentially this:

While there have been many many improvements in firearms the fact that these cartridges have (a) proven to be exceptional performers for over 100 years, and (b) many rifles, of all grades, are still chambered for them, and (c) the ammunition is still readily available for all, and (d) and these are, by far and away, the principal calibers used to engage game in Southern Africa, seem to indicate to me that, if we refuse to allow ourselves to be caught up in the latest "whizz-bang" trend, the selection for Africa is pretty academic.

Pick one from each column and go.

And now, that this has been said, it must amaze some how we continue to discuss something that has already been decided.


[I will now move to a comfortable chair and await the bombs to start falling .... and laughing all the while!]


I am willing to bet you will not be using anything approaching the bullets and powders available from 1892 - 1912 in those cartridges. ;)

So while I agree 100% with your basic premise (I like to say "never hunt with a cartridge younger than you"), we must be intellectually honest and admit that our old favorites (mine are the H&H brothers) benefit from modern powders, primers and bullets.

If I had to use Cordite in my 300 H&H, I might as well just shoot a 30-06!

edit: wow, old thread!
 
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lcq

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I am willing to bet you will not be using anything approaching the bullets and powders available from 1892 - 1912 in those cartridges. ;)

So while I agree 100% with your basic premise (I like to say "never hunt with a cartridge younger than you"), we must be intellectually honest and admit that our old favorites (mine are the H&H brothers) benefit from modern powders, primers and bullets.

If I had to use Cordite in my 300 H&H, I might as well just shoot a 30-06!

edit: wow, old thread!
cordite ah memories
 

Steve Steyr

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Very interesting info and a lot of work. Thanks.
One point, and this is just from my somewhat raggedy-edged memory and is up for discussion.
Taylor put together his KO factor and stated this was valid only for solids when used on elephants. That was its only intended purpose and Taylor claimed no validity other than this. Yet I see KO factor used on everything from elephants to dump rats. It has become the counter argument to fpe. So my question is - does KO have valid application for shooting smaller game with expanding bullets? Or do expanding bullets negate the KO factor, as Taylor seemed to indicate?
 

Redhawk45

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I think TKO adds an element of minimum effectiveness to expanding bullets that fail to expand. I see minimally expanding pistol and rifle bullets being less dramatic in their effect than fully expanding examples of the same type bullets. I shot lots of deer with 180 grain .308 Win and the deer died as intended but not too many "dead in their tracks" deer resulted. I shot a cow elk with a 250 grain Barnes X bullet at about 2400 fps at impact from a .35 Whelen. She ran off into a ravine which led to a bit of work. Medium animals don't need to be shot with solids or near solids such as Bell used on elephants. Didn't he say "softs had never polluted the barrels" of his rifles? Even he had unexplained failures with his 7mm and moved up to the .318 Richards or something thing bigger for elephants.
 

Steve Steyr

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Actually Bell liked the .318 but he had acquired a lot of bad ammo for it. He ended up shooting the bad ammo by shooting birds on the wing at long distances with his .318 while on vacation on an island on Lake Victoria.
As far as I have read, Bell never had any unexplained failures with his 7x57 or its ammo. As a matter of fact, on one long safari, he averaged one elephant for every 1 1/2 cartridges. He was a businessman so kept a careful accounting of his business expenditures, including cartridges. Out of this tally, he shot game to keep his porters fed. He also had his double rifle with him but he didn't like using it as he felt the extra noise disturbed the elephant herds too badly. Also, the larger caliber ammo was a lot more expensive than 7x57 ammo. Quite a record of expert shooting.
 

Badboymelvin

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It's good to see that the .458WM did well in this comparison. Might've surprise a few people..
It's great that the old girl is standing up for herself!
 

rookhawk

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I think this entire exercise is predicated on a belief system in Taylor KO.

The alternative denomination would suggest that the smallest diameter, longest, heaviest bullet will provide the best accuracy and penetration. The follow up assumption would be that good things happen by extending "hang time" or duration inside the prey. Thus, exceptional things happen at around 2300-2500fps if it hits the animal at these speeds. Lots of other good reasons for these velocities which I won't enumerate for brevity. Basically everything I just said is the antithesis of the religion of Roy Weatherby.

For my belief system, these are the calibers of note:

.257 Roberts
6.5x55
7x57
9.3x62
9.3x74
300 H&H
375 H&H
470 NE

And if you don't like euro-African rounds this would be the American translation that comes to mind.

.260 rem
7mm-08
35 Whelen
 

JWB300

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Interesting comparison Libertarian. I sometimes find myself over analysing things based upon weight/cost etc and at times it has proved very useful.

One comparison I don't care for is cost of ammunition/projectiles. Ultimately ammunition is a very small cost when it come to hunting - particularly O/S hunting. For my mind it is one of three elements that you should not skimp on (the other two are boots and optics). Much like tyres on a car - it is the business end and the best you can afford should be used. Obviously I'm not suggesting that the best ammunition is the most expensive but projectiles that are well respected tend to be more expensive.

Also the world would be a boring place if we all shot 30-06 Tikka's! ;)

Good comparison anyway!

Cheers,
JWB300
 

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