The Cannon Myth: Why I'd Rather Hit Than Bruise

In my first hand experience, a well placed shot and bullet construction seems to be the most logical effective solution to putting down large animals to include Buffalo, Hippo, Giraffe, and Elephant.

On my current Safari I took a Buff with a .375H&H and Barnes 350 Grain TSX. First shot was double lung, second shot was spine. Both shots were at approximately 100 Yards. First shot froze him momentarily and then he started walking slowly, stopped briefly, second shot dropped him flat. Only a 3rd insurance was taken at the request of my PH.
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I had the option of shooting my 450 Dakota with a 500 Grain Swift Break-Away, but because I was shooting semi prone to prone from the top of a grassed over ant hill, I didn’t want to hammer my collar bone. I also shoot both rifles equally well and do not flinch. I’ve killed Buff and Hippo with the same load and Barnes TSX, I know how effective they are.

Hippo being head shot at 60 yards.
IMG_3610.jpeg



Regarding Elephant shot on my current Safari,
when my Botswana PH confirmed my rifle choice was 450 Dakota with 500 Grain Swift Break-Away, hand loaded to 2,300 FPS. He said great! Load all 5. I mentioned I also had Swift A-Frame loaded to 2475 FPS. He asked me if I shoot the rifle well and without issue. I told him that I shot very tight groups accurately out to 100 yards and will not flinch. He said have a couple A - Frames ready, but he was backing me with a 458 Lott, a 416 Rigby with his best tracker, and Henk my PH had my .375 H&H.

The following day I shot my Elephant at 20 yards and slightly quarter to. Headshot in front of the ear hole/slit, dropped him straight down on all fours and both tusks squared into the dirt. I was instructed to give an insurance shot in the shoulder which resulted in the Ele’s shoulder being pushed further under his body. And ultimately a tilt and shift from it’s original position.

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Shoulder Insurance Shot went through the heart:
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Based on what I’ve been told directly by someone who has guided as a PH 60 Elephant Hunts and participated in close to 100 total, there are a lot of first time hunters that don’t handle recoil well, don’t practice shooting, don't understand the importance of bullet construction and choice, don’t know which barrel to shoot on their double first, exaggeratedly flench, make terrible first shots that results in elephants being shot multiple times and run off only to be recovered later or next day, and has personally shot many clients animals for them because they couldn’t shoot effectively.

I wouldn’t shoot an elephant without a well constructed and proven solid bullet, nor would I shoot a larger bore rifle that caused me to flinch.
 
Well done.
 
In my first hand experience, a well placed shot and bullet construction seems to be the most logical effective solution to putting down large animals to include Buffalo, Hippo, Giraffe, and Elephant.

On my current Safari I took a Buff with a .375H&H and Barnes 350 Grain TSX. First shot was double lung, second shot was spine. Both shots were at approximately 100 Yards. First shot froze him momentarily and then he started walking slowly, stopped briefly, second shot dropped him flat. Only a 3rd insurance was taken at the request of my PH. View attachment 801174
View attachment 801298
I had the option of shooting my 450 Dakota with a 500 Grain Swift Break-Away, but because I was shooting semi prone to prone from the top of a grassed over ant hill, I didn’t want to hammer my collar bone. I also shoot both rifles equally well and do not flinch. I’ve killed Buff and Hippo with the same load and Barnes TSX, I know how effective they are.

Hippo being head shot at 60 yards.
View attachment 801237


Regarding Elephant shot on my current Safari,
when my Botswana PH confirmed my rifle choice was 450 Dakota with 500 Grain Swift Break-Away, hand loaded to 2,300 FPS. He said great! Load all 5. I mentioned I also had Swift A-Frame loaded to 2475 FPS. He asked me if I shoot the rifle well and without issue. I told him that I shot very tight groups accurately out to 100 yards and will not flinch. He said have a couple A - Frames ready, but he was backing me with a 458 Lott, a 416 Rigby with his best tracker, and Henk my PH had my .375 H&H.

The following day I shot my Elephant at 20 yards and slightly quarter to. Headshot in front of the ear hole/slit, dropped him straight down on all fours and both tusks squared into the dirt. I was instructed to give an insurance shot in the shoulder which resulted in the Ele’s shoulder being pushed further under his body. And ultimately a tilt and shift from it’s original position.

View attachment 801294
View attachment 801295
View attachment 801296
View attachment 801297

Shoulder Insurance Shot went through the heart:
View attachment 801299
View attachment 801300

Based on what I’ve been told directly by someone who has guided as a PH 60 Elephant Hunts and participated in close to 100 total, there are a lot of first time hunters that don’t handle recoil well, don’t practice shooting, don't understand the importance of bullet construction and choice, don’t know which barrel to shoot on their double first, exaggeratedly flench, make terrible first shots that results in elephants being shot multiple times and run off only to be recovered later or next day, and has personally shot many clients animals for them because they couldn’t shoot effectively.

I wouldn’t shoot an elephant without a well constructed and proven solid bullet, nor would I shoot a larger bore rifle that caused me to flinch.
Excellent report and congratulations on a very successful safari. I'm also little curious or rather intrigued that your PH agreed for you to have some Aframes ready for the Elephant.

I've never hunted elephant, and for personal and religious reasons, probably never will. My understanding, however, is that solids are generally the norm for elephant, particularly for a frontal brain shot where penetration through the skull is critical.

Were the A-Frames intended for a potential side on shot, or were they simply there in case another animal presented an opportunity during the hunt?
Just curious to understand the thinking behind it. Thanks again for sharing your experience!
 
Excellent report and congratulations on a very successful safari. I'm also little curious or rather intrigued that your PH agreed for you to have some Aframes ready for the Elephant.

I've never hunted elephant, and for personal and religious reasons, probably never will. My understanding, however, is that solids are generally the norm for elephant, particularly for a frontal brain shot where penetration through the skull is critical.

Were the A-Frames intended for a potential side on shot, or were they simply there in case another animal presented an opportunity during the hunt?
Just curious to understand the thinking behind it. Thanks again for sharing your experience!
I assume he only meant if wanted to use them for follow up shots beyond the first five. His preference was for Solid Break-Aways.
 
404 is about the limit of what I can or want to handle for recoil. 1) It spits out a 400 gr .423 diameter bullet that transitions after impact into a slug the same diameter as a 700 Nitro solid ... if it has enough gas behind it. 2) With multiple retina detachments in my medical history, I need to avoid going overboard unnecessarily with recoil. Mitigate as much as possible. 3) In the unlikely event the shit hits the fan and I need to shoot while both target and myself are moving to mutually engage and avoid impact, I don't want to be armed with a rifle that will have a high probability of knocking me off my feet if it doesn't stop my adversary. 4) I don't need to shoot a cannon to be effective. Either on the sticks or off, standing or moving target, I am a good shot. I have proven it to myself and my PH. 5) I killed two buffalo very dead with only 250 gr 375 H&H shot from a strange rifle. Up until the moment of shooting my first buffalo I had never shot anything bigger than 300 WM only twice before, once being one round fired from that rifle at the range before we left to hunt buffalo. But I know how to shoot ... any gun.

The only advantage I can possibly see shooting a +45 caliber cannon with solids is the entrance wound is larger which MIGHT translate to a longer wider wound channel whereas the narrower -45 caliber copper bullets, while they ultimately can expand wider, obviously don't open up instantly on impact. On the other hand, delaying expansion after impact = deeper penetration. Bottom line: I'm not convinced great big solid bullets with potential to bowl me over and leave me blind really have any great big advantage.
 
Fair enough, I'll stick to guns. Do you shoot your 32 ACP because of it's laser like precision or is the recoil of the 45 too much to shoot accurately. Lol

Ah, but the .32 ACP recoil is fierce in those mini guns. You better hang on firm to the Seecamp, and it is only a one-finger grip :cool:

Seecamp one-finger grip.jpg



PS: it is a point I purposefully did not make before, in order to not muddy the already very confused waters any further, but our good friend the kitty cat should try one of these modern 7 lbs. .375s with a DG 300 gr load (never mind 350 gr) and come back tell us about bruising vs accuracy ;)
 
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I assume he only meant if wanted to use them for follow up shots beyond the first five. His preference was for Solid Break away
Swift Break Away, I have heard lot of good things and now I have heard from somone that has used it in the field. Just a tad difficult to get.
Which powder did you use for your loads?
 
404 is about the limit of what I can or want to handle for recoil. 1) It spits out a 400 gr .423 diameter bullet that transitions after impact into a slug the same diameter as a 700 Nitro solid ... if it has enough gas behind it. 2) With multiple retina detachments in my medical history, I need to avoid going overboard unnecessarily with recoil. Mitigate as much as possible. 3) In the unlikely event the shit hits the fan and I need to shoot while both target and myself are moving to mutually engage and avoid impact, I don't want to be armed with a rifle that will have a high probability of knocking me off my feet if it doesn't stop my adversary. 4) I don't need to shoot a cannon to be effective. Either on the sticks or off, standing or moving target, I am a good shot. I have proven it to myself and my PH. 5) I killed two buffalo very dead with only 250 gr 375 H&H shot from a strange rifle. Up until the moment of shooting my first buffalo I had never shot anything bigger than 300 WM only twice before, once being one round fired from that rifle at the range before we left to hunt buffalo. But I know how to shoot ... any gun.

The only advantage I can possibly see shooting a +45 caliber cannon with solids is the entrance wound is larger which MIGHT translate to a longer wider wound channel whereas the narrower -45 caliber copper bullets, while they ultimately can expand wider, obviously don't open up instantly on impact. On the other hand, delaying expansion after impact = deeper penetration. Bottom line: I'm not convinced great big solid bullets with potential to bowl me over and leave me blind really have any great big advantage.
That’s a perfectly reasonable case for the .404, and I doubt anyone would argue with putting your eyesight and ability to remain upright ahead of a few extra millimetres of bullet diameter! Not worth it.

I suspect we agree on more than we disagree. The .404 Jeffery is a very capable cartridge, and there is certainly no requirement to graduate to artillery simply to prove one’s credentials as a dangerous-game hunter. A well-placed shot from a rifle you shoot confidently is worth a great deal.

Where I might respectfully disagree is on the advantage of the larger calibres. It isn’t necessarily about a bigger entrance wound or the ability to bowl over a buffalo, it’s about the overall performance of the bullet, penetration, and the circumstances in which that extra margin might matter. Whether that margin is worth the additional recoil is a different question, and one that each hunter has to answer for himself.

If the .404 gives you the confidence to shoot accurately, quickly and repeatedly when it matters, I’d say you’ve made a very sensible choice. After all, the buffalo doesn’t award extra points for calibre,nor will it notice the difference and the PH certainly doesn’t get a bonus for the diameter of the hole in the target. A dead animal is a dead animal.
 
Leica Magnus 1-6x24 i

Probably the best glass quality out there, including Swarovski, and I fail to see how I could use 8x magnification on a .458 ;)

View attachment 801446
The extra magnification is handy for zeroing at the range if one doesn't have a spotting scope. Dirty Bird targets and 9x scope work great together at 100 yards. I usually have my plains game rifle with 3-9x available when sighting in my 404 with 1-4x or its irons. I actually spot better with that 3-9x scope than my binoculars (left eye is screwed up).
 
PS: it is a point I purposefully did not make before, in order to not muddy the already very confused waters any further, but our good friend the kitty cat should try one of these modern 7 lbs. .375s with a DG 300 gr load (never mind 350 gr) and come back tell us about bruising vs accuracy ;)
Careful now, you're making a compelling argument for rifle weight being at least as important as calibre. We might actually end up agreeing on something, and that could ruin the entertainment value of this thread.
 
Ah, but the .32 ACP recoil is fierce in those mini guns. You better hang on firm to the Seecamp, and it is only a one-finger grip :cool:

But comparatively weak caliber and snappy recoil is a price I am very happy to pay because the thing is so small and light that I actually carry it... without advertising it to anyone in sight...

And the .32 in the defensive pistol you actually carry, sure beats the 9 (never mind the .45) in the defensive pistol you leave at home or in the truck half of the time because it is too big or too heavy ;)

Seecamp size.jpg


Note: size and absolute discretion are probably less an issue nowadays after decades of favorable right-to-carry evolution, but I remember Connecticut in the 2000's when you could get arrested for "brandishing" or "unlawful display" because someone saw something under your jacket when you pulled your BlackBerry from its belt clip or your wallet from your jacket interior chest pocket.
 
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But comparatively weak caliber and snappy recoil is a price I am very happy to pay because the thing is so small and light that I actually carry it... without advertising it to anyone in sight...

And the .32 in the defensive pistol you actually carry, sure beats the 9 (never mind the .45) in the defensive pistol you leave at home or in the truck half of the time because it is too big or too heavy ;)

View attachment 801535

Note: size and absolute discretion are probably less an issue nowadays after decades of favorable right-to-carry evolution, but I remember Connecticut in the 1990's when you could get arrested for "flashing a gun" because someone saw something under your jacket when you pulled your BlackBerry from its belt clip...
Now I know why they don't sell Cracker Jacks up here. :D
 
Now I know why they don't sell Cracker Jacks up here. :D

Make no mistake about it, a .32 ACP Silver Tip (or other modern defensive loads) will kill you very, very dead ;)

It is not a cartridge designed to engage in a Hollywood-style rolling gun battle at 25 yards with multiple large capacity magazine reloads, but from 0 to 15 feet it will perforate whatever an aggressor wears (short of body armor), and it is credited with over 70% one-shot stops (torso/head) in several studies of thousands of actual shootouts.

As to the gun itself, it is designed for true defensive self-defense encounters, that by definition happen at very short distances, and it has achieved cult-status among the people-in-the-know:

1792443731401.png


A fun fact about the Seecamp, is that the gun does not have any sight, none whatsoever.

The manufacturer user manual states (p.13)
1792442635944.png


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Ludwig Seecamp , the pistol creator, is famously quoted for saying something along the line of "if you do not understand why the pistol does not need sights, it is not the right pistol for you".
 
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Well, hell. Guess I’m gonna have to learn to shoot a damn pistol. Gotta fit in.

...
Yep, then you can be "tacticool" like some. Throw in terms like "slicing the pie", "tap, rack, bang" etc. in conversations about pistol handling and you'll belong. :unsure:
 
Make no mistake about it, a .32 ACP Silver Tip (or other modern defensive loads) will kill you very, very dead ;)

It is not a cartridge designed to engage in a Hollywood-style rolling gun battle at 25 yards with multiple large capacity magazine reloads, but from 0 to 15 feet it will perforate whatever an aggressor wears (short of body armor), and it is credited with over 70% one-shot stops (torso/head) in several studies of thousands of actual shootouts.

As to the gun itself, it is designed for true defensive self-defense encounters, that by definition happen at very short distances, and it has achieved cult-status among the people-in-the-know:

View attachment 801543

A fun fact about the Seecamp, is that the gun does not have any sight, none whatsoever.

The manufacturer user manual states (p.13)
View attachment 801537

View attachment 801555

Ludwig Seecamp , the pistol creator, is famously quoted for saying something along the line of "if you do not understand why the pistol does not need sights, it is not the right pistol for you".

"... it is credited with over 70% one-shot stops (torso/head) in several studies of thousands of actual shootouts."

That's a lot of dead pimps!
 
Swift Break Away, I have heard lot of good things and now I have heard from somone that has used it in the field. Just a tad difficult to get.
Which powder did you use for your loads?
I use 100 Grains of H-4350
 
Yep, then you can be "tacticool" like some. Throw in terms like "slicing the pie", "tap, rack, bang" etc. in conversations about pistol handling and you'll belong. :unsure:

Throw in a Mozambique every once in a while. To satisfy the AH and pistolero crowds.
 

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