On Premium Oil Finishes - Questions

I've spent a prodigious amount of time refinishing stocks now on my hunting rifles for a guy who is not a stockmaker. Multiple rounds over the years for my custom .375 H&H especially. I have poured over the photos of premium brand rifles of similar configuration (Rigby, Mauser, Holland & Holland, Westley Richards etc.) and have come to a strong conclusion that neither Rigby nor Mauser in particular are using permutations of the sorts of oils anymore that most of us are using for a premium finish. Take a look at some of the lighter hued stocks especially. Some of those walnut tones, I don't think there is any way they could be preserved in the finished product with such pristine clarity, contrast between tones and palest of hues in spots using the typical mixes. The original wood would have had to be almost white in some of these spots to amber down with a traditional oil to that tint we see. For instance, i just put an oil finish on an interesting new stock for my .375. It's a real calico piece of walnut (not everyone's cup of tea I know) with a large range of walnut hues, lots of chatoyancy, and including in the butt some very interesting clean, cool, pale greens that i understand are quite-to-very rare in walnut once dried (common when fresh cut) and point almost certainly to Bastogne when they are there in dried wood. Also some nice clean pale blonde tones, palest tan like dried grass, some almost warm bright salmon-pinkish. Anyways, i wanted to preserve the contrast and purity of some of these tones that just popped and shimmered beautifully with mineral spirits on the raw sanded wood, but in the aftermath of finishing the piece with a linseed-based oil and buffing/rubbing it out to a nice satin sheen, i am forced to admit that while the grain and chatoyancy are still very nice, the tones, while still somewhat apparent in the greens and blondes (the salmon tones are gone), have nonetheless all darkened, muted and blended towards homogeneity with one another. It's a nice, warm stock with some interest but nothing like before oil finish. I have gleaned some ideas that Rigby and Mauser are no longer using traditional based oil options on many of their guns as many of us are, but rather using newer, "synthetic" options designed to preserve clarity and not to shift tint nor darken. Any thoughts from anyone here? Thanks!

Here is an example of what i am speaking of in finished product.

Different varieties of walnut will give different hue in finished product. The light colored example looks to me to be Turkish walnut? I think the darker one is English or claro walnut. Or it was dyed with a stain. Also, as stocks age, they acquire a darker patina. This happens with most any wood. Some latex finishes can substantially reduce UV light penetration which will reduce patina. However, I don't believe that stock was done in latex urethane. Here's my Springfield refinished several times since 1981 with Linspeed oil and no staining. It didn't start out that red.

For the last fifty years most wood stocked "quality" mass produced factory guns in North America were finished with sprayed on acrylic lacquer (Ruger excepted). The advantage was the stuff dried almost instantly. Disadvantage was very toxic odor during application and can be brittle (I.e. chips off). Moisture protection isn't what you'd think (actually shellac provides best vapor barrier but of course it's very soft and not durable, plus very short shelf life in liquid form = expensive). Fixing a scratch or dent in wood with acrylic lacquer finish is pretty much impossible. Stripping the shit from wood is also almost impossible! I doubt either of the above examples were finished in acrylic. Oil finish is the best but application is highly labor intensive.

The above rifle maker was probably responding to a fashion trend for lighter colored walnut with more "flavor." He purposely opted for a lighter breed of walnut and did not stain it. I note the newer wood stocked Beretta shotguns at the club have dark wood that's been "enhanced" to add even more dark "flavor" to the walnut grain. I'm thinking a stencil of some sort and darker stain sprayed on? Beretta is able to make ordinary walnut look like something special (appears almost "smoked"). Looks fakey to me but the guys are quite proud of them. Something different I guess.

Rigby offers with alkanet root which gives the traditional english red hue and without which is what you posted above. The traditional red is higher maintenance, making scratches and dents really show.
Both of these finishes are traditional hand rubbed oil.

Much of the best walnut is coming from Turkey now, as i understand it, they still have some old trees. They are planting, but anyone on here will be long dead when those plantings are ready, if anyone is still around to care by that point. It's the same species of walnut tree in Turkey that is native to England and France, for instance - different climes having different growing conditions that may result in different looks at the extremes, maybe on average too - i don't know. Not surprisingly given the number of us out there and the demand for nice walnut and the prohibitive number of years it takes for that walnut grow into something nice, nice walnut is becoming scarce. It may well all but run out (a theme easy to have predicted in these latter days of the modern trajectory, nice and particularly useful stuff entering into supply crunches in a growth dependent world.) At any rate, there are only two species of walnut (someone correct me if i'm wrong) used to make the majority of gunstocks, European and North Amercan black. Bastogne being a hybrid between the two, and Claro for instance being a regional variant of black i believe while Turkish is a regional variant of the same tree growing in England. I believe "circassian" is also a regional variant of English. All can yield a wide range of hues from black coffee coloured to straw blonde. Greens in dried wood showing up (so i have read) primarily in Bastogne and also in Claro. If i'm not mistaken (again) aged walnut beyond initial drying tends to grey, rather than darken. If your red rifle stock (and there are natural red walnut examples and a great many tinted ones, traditionally with alkanet root) is getting darker red with time, i'd think that is the deepening amber of the aging finish lending that look - traditional oil finished getting even darker amber with time with ambering enhancing red, whether natural, dyed or stained. The good thing about oil finishes is they penetrate and enhance grain and chatter. The bad thing is they all tend to amber, from my experience, alter the natural hues, which may be desireable or not depending on the person and the wood. Then there is the water-based spar urethane i experimented with, advertised to not alter wood colour and be "crystal clear." The bad things about it in my experience being it does not penetrate and so tends to flatten grain and chatter rather than enhance, so right from that perspective alone undesirable. Furthermore, while it may not amber, it is not true that it is "crystal clear" either, beyond perhaps the first few thinnest coats. It gets milky threatening to become opaque, so by the time you have built up a deep protective layer (against both weather and UV), the resulting failed-experiment look of the wood will have you opening your can of stripper, going back to start. So what to do to preserve bright natural hues? Apparently there are ways to prep for the water based spar that will enhance the grain etc, and with minimal subsequent coats, get good result. (I may try this next if i don't get any better advice on these mysterious "modern synthetics.") The trick seems to be less coats, rather than the more often advised. In fact, this recent project of mine looked pretty nice for the first few coats beyond the penetrating coats, some effect on colour but not much. Then as the coats built up, the colours (not the grain) got progressively more subdued, a beige-ing effect. After becoming increasingly alarmed and polishing out 14 coats, the finish itself is beautiful silky satin, but the clean cool green colours are now subdued and the bright salmon hues are worse, more or less khaki. Not what i was going for. In dark woods i've enjoyed the effects of oil stain. In bright, cool, light woods, not so much.

I don't think there's any way those rifles in the pics above were subjected to traditional oils, all of which have an ambering effect. As i posted originally, i have worked with woods that pale and paler in the raw and after traditional oil finish they were nowhere near that crisp and pristine in hue. I can detect very little amber effect in those photos. Perhaps it is the lighting, or perhaps there is some technique/substance/blend of substances out there being used that is not general knowledge. I don't know, as you can see i'm a bit mystified.

Corrections - Claro is its own species of walnut, sometimes called Western black, and not the same species as Eastern black grown in the west. Bastogne is a hybrid between Claro and English and is sterile.

woodsrunner said:

I've spent a prodigious amount of time refinishing stocks now on my hunting rifles for a guy who is not a stockmaker. Multiple rounds over the years for my custom .375 H&H especially. I have poured over the photos of premium brand rifles of similar configuration (Rigby, Mauser, Holland & Holland, Westley Richards etc.) and have come to a strong conclusion that neither Rigby nor Mauser in particular are using permutations of the sorts of oils anymore that most of us are using for a premium finish. Take a look at some of the lighter hued stocks especially. Some of those walnut tones, I don't think there is any way they could be preserved in the finished product with such pristine clarity, contrast between tones and palest of hues in spots using the typical mixes. The original wood would have had to be almost white in some of these spots to amber down with a traditional oil to that tint we see. For instance, i just put an oil finish on an interesting new stock for my .375. It's a real calico piece of walnut (not everyone's cup of tea I know) with a large range of walnut hues, lots of chatoyancy, and including in the butt some very interesting clean, cool, pale greens that i understand are quite-to-very rare in walnut once dried (common when fresh cut) and point almost certainly to Bastogne when they are there in dried wood. Also some nice clean pale blonde tones, palest tan like dried grass, some almost warm bright salmon-pinkish. Anyways, i wanted to preserve the contrast and purity of some of these tones that just popped and shimmered beautifully with mineral spirits on the raw sanded wood, but in the aftermath of finishing the piece with a linseed-based oil and buffing/rubbing it out to a nice satin sheen, i am forced to admit that while the grain and chatoyancy are still very nice, the tones, while still somewhat apparent in the greens and blondes (the salmon tones are gone), have nonetheless all darkened, muted and blended towards homogeneity with one another. It's a nice, warm stock with some interest but nothing like before oil finish. I have gleaned some ideas that Rigby and Mauser are no longer using traditional based oil options on many of their guns as many of us are, but rather using newer, "synthetic" options designed to preserve clarity and not to shift tint nor darken. Any thoughts from anyone here? Thanks!

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I can confirm that both the Rigby Highland Stalker and Big Game rifles have traditional oil finishes.

Must be the woods, then. Thanks!

Most woods will darken over time when exposed to light, often referred to as oxidizing (although not technically correct). Osage orange would be one of the faster, more pronounced, color changes. From a brilliant yellow, with amazing iridescent figure when polished, to a light chocolate in just a couple years. Pink ivory also suffers this. Bright red to brown in just a few years. Just the ambient light from the window will do this. The pink ivory grips on one of my Colt SAA 44-40s have held color well, but they spend more time in the dark than exposed to sunlight. The grips on the one I carried & shot regularly are mostly brown now.
Mesquite, walnut, cherry, and most already darker woods, will all deepen in color over time when exposed to light; regardless of finish. Direct sunlight just speeds the process. I've played with a variety of UV blocking finishes, but haven't found anything that will stop the oxidation. I also never found one that yields a decent finish as compared to oil.
Most walnut stocks have alkanet oil applied first, producing the typical reddish walnut most people connect to fine rifles. This does impede the darkening of walnut, but doesn't stop it. Look at those 50-100 year old rifles that have been properly used and taken care of. They are darker than one fresh out of the same shop. Still have a red hue, but darker.
This is just the nature of wood. Enjoy the figure, it lasts. Those subtle hues will diminish with time, unfortunately.

I have refinished 3 rifles. I stained my 458 and .22 stock with food dye. Approx. 7 years later, both are pretty similar to when I first refinished them. I have had my 458 on a rack next to a Verney double and the finish was very similar in colour and texture. I also refinished my 30-06 without stain but with the same boiled linseed oil. The stock is browner and the light areas are still quite white. Overall, it has a more natural colour but is definitely darker hued and slightly more brown. Many blo and similar products are tinted with red ( sometimes alkanet root and sometimes dyes) I have observed that linseed oil generally enhances grain pattern when compared to various other finishes. Staining can often help bring out the grain so perhaps you would need to apply stains and sanding back to enhance those colours ie adding a pink stain and black and say yellow, one after the other and sanding back before applying finish ?