Is the 500 Jeffery really superior to the 458 Lott in stopping power?

Is the 500 Jeffery really superior to the 458 Lott in stopping power?

This the original question......simple answer.....absolutely....

I don’t have direct experience with 458s or 500 or 505s.
From what I have read and been told by PHs over the years is many of them start with the 458s. But either end up with doubles or a bolt action in 500 or 505. Two of the PHs that I have known for a long time both choose 505 as their stoppers. Based on their experience I would say the bigger bore is the way to go.
Ultimately it does boiled down the shooter but seeing that many dangerous game PHs prefer the 500s there is something to it.

IvW said:

Too many are stuck on old original ballistics and 535gr bullets for the 500 Jeff....I do not use them and dont know anyone else who does for backup....we use 570 and 600gr premium bullets.....

The 500 Jeff with the right bullets and in the hands of a competent shooter is devastatingly effect in any situation on any dg....

Yes not all can handle it but the ones who can and who use them for dg follow up wont use anything less.....

As for the ones thinking smaller caliber dg rifles are just as effective are unfortuanately speaking of no practical experience....

Nothing wrong with a 458 Lott for dg backup but it cannot compare to the performance of the 500 Jeff.....

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What IVW said. I never used 535 grain projectiles in .500J, only 570 and 600 grain projectiles.

I also enjoyed playing around with the 475? grain CEB Safari Raptors, but in simple hunting situations not stopping situations.

IvW said:

Too many are stuck on old original ballistics and 535gr bullets for the 500 Jeff....I do not use them and dont know anyone else who does for backup....we use 570 and 600gr premium bullets.....

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Agreed. The 535 grain bullet makes no sense to me.

IvW said:

The 500 Jeff with the right bullets and in the hands of a competent shooter is devastatingly effect in any situation on any dg....

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I would argue the same could be said of the 375 H&H with very competent shooting. Some highly skilled PH’s do just that although most use a larger caliber for DG admittedly.

My thought is the 500 Jeffery with body shots into the vitals of a buffalo would be more effective with the heavier and larger diameter bullet and a near miss on an elephants brain would be more effective in TKO’ing and dropping the elephant giving time for additional shots although I think the 458 Lott may do this as well. Maybe you can elaborate with your PH experience with your 500 Jeffery?

Would the 500 Jeffery be more effective than a 458 Lott during a Cape buffalo charge? I guess the question may sound stupid to you but one must hit the brain or CNS in order to stop the buffalo, shot placement being critical even with a 500 Jeffery.

IvW said:

As for the ones thinking smaller caliber dg rifles are just as effective are unfortuanately speaking of no practical experience....

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Agreed. My Cape buffalo take will remain in the single digits most likely and other large DG will be limited so I’ll never truly have the practical experience, still I believe the vast majority of PH’s are satisfied with the 458 Lott as a stopping rifle for large DG and have no experience using larger calibers themselves. I think it is a small number of PH’s who use a 500 or larger, you being one and nothing wrong with that.

IvW said:

Nothing wrong with a 458 Lott for dg backup but it cannot compare to the performance of the 500 Jeff.....

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I don’t necessarily disagree, my primary question was using the heavy for caliber 550 grain and 600 grain bullets for the 458 Lott which would be similar velocity to the 500 Jeffery at approximately 2150 FPS. However, my research yields little practical field experience with these heavy bullets loaded in the 458 Lott.

I read of a 450 Rigby loaded with 550 grain Woodleigh SP that really didn’t penetrate too well on a Cape buffalo although it died after several shots, perhaps a bit too much velocity? I was surprised to read this account. I really can’t find anything else. Almost all practical experience with the 458 Lott is with 500 grain bullets, nothing larger that I can find.

I think the vast majority of PH’s and African hunters will use nothing larger than 500 grain bullets in the 458 Lott because that’s the heaviest offered in factory loaded ammo and most bullets available for reloading.

I think with a good 550 grain bullet, the 458 Lott should come close to the 500 Jeffery but I’m not sure we’ll ever know?

Tanner Lee said:

I don’t have direct experience with 458s or 500 or 505s.
From what I have read and been told by PHs over the years is many of them start with the 458s. But either end up with doubles or a bolt action in 500 or 505. Two of the PHs that I have known for a long time both choose 505 as their stoppers. Based on their experience I would say the bigger bore is the way to go.
Ultimately it does boiled down the shooter but seeing that many dangerous game PHs prefer the 500s there is something to it.

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There have been surveys posted previously about the preferred DG backup rifle preferred by African PH’s. I posted one awhile back, information taken from another popular hunting site where a survey was done on African PH’s over the years, many notable PH’s, and only a small number use anything over 500 caliber.

My PH in Zim 2002 was Rory Muill he said, “the 500j and 500 Gibs were guaranteed stoppers of anythat walks in Africa”. He was a top tier elephant PH for decades with Russ Broom Safaris. I shot a buff facing me at 40 yds. It spun and ran I went left and Rory ran right. The buff was probably 70 yds when Rory touched one off- I saw the buff take the hit in the ribs - quartering hard away at full tilt- it took one long stride and flipped over on its side. The 535 grain solid Woodley was slightly bent in the off shoulder area- when recovered. Obviously it hit a rib and deflected some , but that buff was stoned!!! He said the only drawback with the 505 and 500j is they kick the hell out of you. But he used a bolt gun because he wanted that third shot when elephants go mad!!

BJH65 said:

Agreed. The 535 grain bullet makes no sense to me.

I would argue the same could be said of the 375 H&H with very competent shooting. Some highly skilled PH’s do just that although most use a larger caliber for DG admittedly.

My thought is the 500 Jeffery with body shots into the vitals of a buffalo would be more effective with the heavier and larger diameter bullet and a near miss on an elephants brain would be more effective in TKO’ing and dropping the elephant giving time for additional shots although I think the 458 Lott may do this as well. Maybe you can elaborate with your PH experience with your 500 Jeffery?

Would the 500 Jeffery be more effective than a 458 Lott during a Cape buffalo charge? I guess the question may sound stupid to you but one must hit the brain or CNS in order to stop the buffalo, shot placement being critical even with a 500 Jeffery.

Agreed. My Cape buffalo take will remain in the single digits most likely and other large DG will be limited so I’ll never truly have the practical experience, still I believe the vast majority of PH’s are satisfied with the 458 Lott as a stopping rifle for large DG and have no experience using larger calibers themselves. I think it is a small number of PH’s who use a 500 or larger, you being one and nothing wrong with that.

I don’t necessarily disagree, my primary question was using the heavy for caliber 550 grain and 600 grain bullets for the 458 Lott which would be similar velocity to the 500 Jeffery at approximately 2150 FPS. However, my research yields little practical field experience with these heavy bullets loaded in the 458 Lott.

I read of a 450 Rigby loaded with 550 grain Woodleigh SP that really didn’t penetrate too well on a Cape buffalo although it died after several shots, perhaps a bit too much velocity? I was surprised to read this account. I really can’t find anything else. Almost all practical experience with the 458 Lott is with 500 grain bullets, nothing larger that I can find.

I think the vast majority of PH’s and African hunters will use nothing larger than 500 grain bullets in the 458 Lott because that’s the heaviest offered in factory loaded ammo and most bullets available for reloading.

I think with a good 550 grain bullet, the 458 Lott should come close to the 500 Jeffery but I’m not sure we’ll ever know?

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Hi, @BJH65

A .458 Lott loaded with 550Gr bullets is a magnificent dangerous game caliber, but a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs loaded with 570Gr-600Gr bullets will always be superior to it for making body shots (provided that all other factors are equal). Because of the larger diameter of bullet (.505-510”) combined with a weight of suitable proportion.

When you look through the annals of the great hunters of Africa over the last 120 years, the one truth that comes out clearly is bullet diameter matters more than FPS. A 50 cal bullet going 2150FPS weighing around 570gr is going to hit with authority. That’s why history suggests its better than a faster FPS .458” diameter bullet.

Don’t believe it?

Same exact analogy, compare the results of a the slower 404 Jeffery versus the faster 375HH. It’s a subtle diameter difference, but the 404J boxes above its weight class in a way the 375HH cannot do.

Ironic both are Jeffery inventions, the 404J and the 500J, and both have the reputation of doing more impressive things with less recoil than alternatives.

A 500J is basically 4-5 rounds of 500NE. A definite professional’s weapon.

IvW said:

Too many are stuck on old original ballistics and 535gr bullets for the 500 Jeff....I do not use them and dont know anyone else who does for backup....we use 570 and 600gr premium bullets.....

The 500 Jeff with the right bullets and in the hands of a competent shooter is devastatingly effect in any situation on any dg....

Yes not all can handle it but the ones who can and who use them for dg follow up wont use anything less.....

As for the ones thinking smaller caliber dg rifles are just as effective are unfortuanately speaking of no practical experience....

Nothing wrong with a 458 Lott for dg backup but it cannot compare to the performance of the 500 Jeff.....

Click to expand...

Can I ask which 570 and 600 grain bullets you use?

I always appreciate the conviction with which certain claims are made. Some of you must have extensive experience with the cartridge 500 Jeffery by shooting a lot of elephants with it, to assert with such certainty that 570gr or 600gr bullets are far superior to the classic 535gr bullets. So far, I have shot only three of my elephants with this cartridge, all three using the 535gr FMJ bullet at a muzzle velocity of about 2350 fps. It work without issue, so I plan for the moment to stay with the 535gr bullet.

Back up your claims with figures regarding your elephant harvests and stopping by attacks using the cartridge 500 Jeffery and bullets of various weights; perhaps then you can convince me. Otherwise, it all remains theory.

Bit of a fun side by side comparison on the range

I don't have an Instagram account.

BTW, buffalo are not representative of this cartridge's performance, as this type of game can easily be harvested and also stopped if necessary using the 458 Lott or even a smaller caliber.

Ok, loaded it onto YouTube quick.

As said, this is all just a fun comparison:

Bit of a longer version:

Rifles caliber 500 Jeffery saw limited use between the two world wars and shortly thereafter, resulting in few field reports regarding the cartridge's performance. After WWII, there was hardly any mention of this cartridge; it is listed simply as obsolete and no longer available in my Gun Digest from 1960. It was not until the 1990s that the cartridge saw a revival, thanks to a few gunsmiths and some experienced professional hunters and authors. At that time, the 535gr bullet was the standard and everyone was satisfied with it. While there is no question that 600gr bullets are ballistically superior to the 535gr ones, more data on shot game is needed to determine their absolute advantages in the field, and that only if different bullet weights are compared. Rifles caliber 500 Jeffery are nowadays not in use long enough to obtains definitive conclusions; furthermore, if no one uses the 535gr bullet anymore, that data will cease to be relevant.

grand veneur said:

Rifles caliber 500 Jeffery saw limited use between the two world wars and shortly thereafter, resulting in few field reports regarding the cartridge's performance. After WWII, there was hardly any mention of this cartridge; it is listed simply as obsolete and no longer available in my Gun Digest from 1960. It was not until the 1990s that the cartridge saw a revival, thanks to a few gunsmiths and some experienced professional hunters and authors. At that time, the 535gr bullet was the standard and everyone was satisfied with it. While there is no question that 600gr bullets are ballistically superior to the 535gr ones, more data on shot game is needed to determine their absolute advantages in the field, and that only if different bullet weights are compared. Rifles caliber 500 Jeffery are nowadays not in use long enough to obtains definitive conclusions; furthermore, if no one uses the 535gr bullet anymore, that data will cease to be relevant.

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This is of great interest to me. I believe you previously mentioned similar performance with the 458 Lott. Did you find using the 500 Jeffery with 535 grain bullets on elephant much different to 458 Lott with 500 grain bullets? Velocities are similar as are weights but wider diameter with the 500 Jeffery of course.

While I don’t have a perceived “need” for a 500 Jeffery it would be exciting for me to shoot one.

BJH65 said:

This is of great interest to me. I believe you previously mentioned similar performance with the 458 Lott. Did you find using the 500 Jeffery with 535 grain bullets on elephant much different to 458 Lott with 500 grain bullets? Velocities are similar as are weights but wider diameter with the 500 Jeffery of course.

While I don’t have a perceived “need” for a 500 Jeffery it would be exciting for me to shoot one.

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I have never hunted with the cartridge 458 Lott, but with the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum. I shot two elephants with it. However, the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum is not comparable in theory to the cartridge 500 Jeffery. A 500gr bullet caliber 458 is certainly ballistically somewhat superior to a 535gr bullet caliber 510, especially when used with the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, but it is difficult to say to what extent this matters in practice. One have to shoot a great number of elephants to be able to say with certainty which is better. In any case, at the front of an elephant, one feels just as well-armed with a rifle caliber 458 as with one caliber 510.

rookhawk said:

When you look through the annals of the great hunters of Africa over the last 120 years, the one truth that comes out clearly is bullet diameter matters more than FPS. A 50 cal bullet going 2150FPS weighing around 570gr is going to hit with authority. That’s why history suggests its better than a faster FPS .458” diameter bullet.

Don’t believe it?

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This tracks because one of the greatest of them all, J.A. Hunter favored his double 500 Nitro Express. It’s hard to argue against this especially when you factor in his overall experience: during a 50 year career he killed 1400 elephant, over 1000 rhino and no number given on buffalo but I suspect a similar number. No modern PH will ever come close to those numbers ever again.

Still bullet technology has changed with the advent of mono metal bullets like Barnes, Perergrine, CEB and North Fork to name a few. These types of bullets the great African hunters of the past never had an opportunity to use,

I suspect the vast number of current African PH’s use the 458 Lott as a backup rifle perhaps due to availability and cost being the primary factors. I think quite a few would love to have a double 500 Nitro Express but for the vast majority it simply isn’t financially feasible.

I have zero experience with the .500 Jeffery and my experience with the .458 Lott is limited on dangerous game. I just killed a buffalo and an elephant that was wounded by poachers and it was ready to charge us. I shot a good number of plains game with my Lott though.
I have used mainly 500 gr bullets ( Degol and Hornady) and 350 gr (Barnes) at the beginning. I have never had the opportunity to play with 550 gr bullets, but I was able to get one box of Starkmantel 600 gr from Degol.
But this weight is too heavy for this caliber and you can't push them fast enough. If my memory serves, 1960 f/s was the best I could get and with a (too) high compression. I gave up this bullet weight for this caliber. I shot one through water jugs and it zipped through all of them without any expansion. At the end, it started to tumble, like my 500 gr FMJ on game.
A caliber like the .450 Rigby, or the .460 Weatherby magnum, with a bigger case capacity will be more suitable for this super heavy weight bullet.
I'm still dreaming about the .500 Jeffery and if I'd buy one, I'll reload it with heavy weight bullet like 570 or 600 gr because I like the concept.
I have just ordered 4 boxes of CEB Safari solid 500 gr bullets for my Lott and I think it will be already a good setup for my next big game huntings.

For me, a bolt-action rifle caliber 458 and the cartridge combined with one of the modern bullets available nowadays, represents the ultimate choice for shooting dangerous game. It is questionable whether frontal surface area of the bullet still plays the major role it once did.

I like my rifle caliber 500 Schüler too, but you own such a rifle primarily because you desire them, not because you absolutely need them. The same applies to other large calibers and also various rifles, such as big bore double rifles for example.

Kevin375 said:

I have zero experience with the .500 Jeffery and my experience with the .458 Lott is limited on dangerous game. I just killed a buffalo and an elephant that was wounded by poachers and it was ready to charge us. I shot a good number of plains game with my Lott though.
I have used mainly 500 gr bullets ( Degol and Hornady) and 350 gr (Barnes) at the beginning. I have never had the opportunity to play with 550 gr bullets, but I was able to get one box of Starkmantel 600 gr from Degol.
But this weight is too heavy for this caliber and you can't push them fast enough. If my memory serves, 1960 f/s was the best I could get and with a (too) high compression. I gave up this bullet weight for this caliber. I shot one through water jugs and it zipped through all of them without any expansion. At the end, it started to tumble, like my 500 gr FMJ on game.
A caliber like the .450 Rigby, or the .460 Weatherby magnum, with a bigger case capacity will be more suitable for this super heavy weight bullet.
I'm still dreaming about the .500 Jeffery and if I'd buy one, I'll reload it with heavy weight bullet like 570 or 600 gr because I like the concept.
I have just ordered 4 boxes of CEB Safari solid 500 gr bullets for my Lott and I think it will be already a good setup for my next big game huntings.

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Just a warning about handloading the Jeffery. They are notorious for not feeding well. The original bullet I think was 535gr with a particular nose shape? They do make 500gr, 570gr, and 585gr bullets for the caliber, but they may not feed well from the 500J magazine. If there was one negative critique of the 500J, it is that the bullet shape and grain weight matters a lot for feeding in that cramped action. Dreams of wonderous varieties of bullet choices are probably misplaced.

On the other hand, the 500NE is limited to ONE bullet weight, just like the 470NE. They both seem to get the job done with their wings clipped at 570gr and 500gr respectively.