Carnac the Magnificent - Heym prediction

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Hornedfrogbbq

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I predict that Heym will significantly increase prices on their double rifles. The pricing umbrella has been set by the British makers and with what I believe is a very high quality product, they have pricing room to raise.

It feels like there is a bifurcation in the market with the British makers at one level, Heym (and maybe Kriegoff?)on the next level and then a level including Merkel, Chapuis, Sabbatti, etc.

What say you all?
 
I feel the British powerhouses have prices through the roof. They are close or upwards of 200K (H&H,Purdey,Rigby rising bite, Boss and WR) and as far as pricing Heym is no where close even with all bells and whistles.
So, with demand soaring and the waitlist becoming longer I will not be surprised with a hike.
 
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"I hold in my hand the envelopes. As a child of four can plainly see, these envelopes have been hermetically sealed. They've been kept in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' porch since noon today. NO ONE knows the contents of these envelopes – but you, in your mystical and borderline divine way, will ascertain the answers having never before heard the questions."
 
I can save anybody the headache as to stay as far away from Sabatti as they can. They don't stand behind their product and have no one reputable in the USA that will service or work on them.
 
Shaw said:
I can save anybody the headache as to stay as far away from Sabatti as they can. They don't stand behind their product and have no one reputable in the USA that will service or work on them.
Click to expand...
My avatar pic is a R&L group from my Sabatti .470ne; Ken Owen speaks highly of them and he build's doubles from scratch.

I was actually looking for a Heym when I came across my rifle by happenstance.
 
SStomcat said:
I feel the British powerhouses have prices through the roof. They are close or upwards of 200K (H&H,Purdey,Rigby rising bite, Boss and WR) and as far as pricing Heym is no where close even with all bells and whistles.
So, with demand soaring and the waitlist becoming longer I will not be surprised with a hike.
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They are close in pricing to the Shikari though. That being said, if I had a product that was in high demand with a 3 year backlog, I'd increase the pricing.
 
Tanks said:
They are close in pricing to the Shikari though. That being said, if I had a product that was in high demand with a 3 year backlog, I'd increase the pricing.
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I don't think they are remotely close in pricing, are they? What does a "PH" shikari (or base model) cost versus a PH Heym 88b?
 
Hornedfrogbbq said:
I don't think they are remotely close in pricing, are they? What does a "PH" shikari (or base model) cost versus a PH Heym 88b?
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Shikari starts around $80K, Heym is probably $40K plus. So, Heym could raise their prices to $60K and not lose demand significantly. Backlog might go down to a year from three, but they’d still sell every rifle they make.
Not to mention HeymUSA doesn’t really do much marketing.
 
deewayne2003 said:
My avatar pic is a R&L group from my Sabatti .470ne; Ken Owen speaks highly of them and he build's doubles from scratch.

I was actually looking for a Heym when I came across my rifle by happenstance.
Click to expand...
He retired.
 
Hornedfrogbbq said:
I predict that Heym will significantly increase prices on their double rifles. The pricing umbrella has been set by the British makers and with what I believe is a very high quality product, they have pricing room to raise.

It feels like there is a bifurcation in the market with the British makers at one level, Heym (and maybe Kriegoff?)on the next level and then a level including Merkel, Chapuis, Sabbatti, etc.

What say you all?
Click to expand...
House of Merkel 140AE:
Anson & Deeley Box Lock Action
Greener Locking Cross Bolt
Double Bite Underlugs
Monoblock Barrel Joining
Manual Safety
Articulated Front Trigger
Made Completely In-House

Heym 88B & 89B:
Anson & Deeley Box Lock Action
Greener Locking Cross Bolt
Double Bite Underlugs
Shoe Lump Barrel Joining
Manual Safety
Articulated Front Trigger
Made Completely In-House

And, Monoblock engineering is structurally stronger than Shoe Lump for joining barrels.
 
Hornedfrogbbq said:
I predict that Heym will significantly increase prices on their double rifles. The pricing umbrella has been set by the British makers and with what I believe is a very high quality product, they have pricing room to raise.

It feels like there is a bifurcation in the market with the British makers at one level, Heym (and maybe Kriegoff?)on the next level and then a level including Merkel, Chapuis, Sabbatti, etc.

What say you all?
Click to expand...

I don’t think so, but its for a different reason.

Is there price elasticity where people would pay more for double rifles? Yes.

What is holding back demand at current prices? Time to deliver.

I think increasing prices any further will see less revenue and less profits.

Something akin to “good, fast, cheap….pick two”. Heyms and Rigby doubles have an untenable build time at present. People hit peak earnings around 53-58. Thats when men are still fit enough for DG hunting and can afford the rifle and the hunt. But a 58 year old waiting 3 years (present delays) for a rifle puts him at 61 when he gets it. If those timelines get any longer, the demand will shrink. If the prices go up at present delivery timelines, demand will shrink.

Used double rifles sell well because they compress time. You can own it NOW.
 
I’d add that there were people that ordered Rigby Shikaris for less than $30k. They waited many, many years for them. So that’s what a 6 year wait for a Shikari is worth: $30k. It appears they are worth $80k when delivered in 18 months. It’s the time that is effecting the price.
 
There’s a saying, cool shit ain’t cheap and cheap shit ain’t cool. That being said, charging a price because you can ain’t cool either. And let’s be honest here, the prices of brands associated with hunting in Africa is part of what helps anti-hunters show that it’s “the evil rich man” who “trophy hunts just for the sake of killing.” I’ll be 28 on my first safari next year. People in my age bracket, unfortunately, do not see Africa as this huge goal or the peak of hunting. They want carbon fiber and aluminum, not walnut and steel. They hear Rigby, and think of a shitty cartoon character, not gunmakers. Raising prices will push them further away from relevance in the future
 
NoStepOnSnek said:
That being said, charging a price because you can ain’t cool either.
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It is economics though. Limited supply and if they have a 3-5 year backlog, then there are two options. Either increase manufacturing capacity without impacting quality or increase prices and reduce backlog. If pricing increases such that backlog is not as long the company is making more money and people looking at others and seeing 5-6 year backlog might gravitate towards Heym which still would be less expensive than the others.

Originally I wanted a Wesley Richards, and I was told 5-6 years. So, I ordered a Rigby Shikari that took 3. Someone looking at Rigby and a 5 year wait might gravitate towards Heym if time is a factor.
 
Supply and demand ebbs and flows. True we are in a period of demand with limited supply however the market is very small, which, in my opinion, may become saturated quickly. (I know, sounds like Marketing 101) Would anyone venture to guess how many double rifles Heym makes a year? Together with the other makers it seems we are headed towards an over supply. If we are buying for tradition just pull the scope off your 375 bolt gun and sharpen your stalking skills. If you need a new gun buy a 4xx without a scope that’s what most old timers used.
 
Pole Pole said:
If we are buying for tradition just pull the scope off your 375 bolt gun and sharpen your stalking skills. If you need a new gun buy a 4xx without a scope that’s what most old timers used.
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I don't think you understand why people buy double rifles.
 
The saying 'pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered' is also economics. I predict that if the prices go too high demand won't just shrink, it will evaporate to a point where the air up there will be too thin to support even one luxury maker. Remember H&H, VC and Purdey.
 
Kevin Peacocke said:
The saying 'pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered' is also economics. I predict that if the prices go too high demand won't just shrink, it will evaporate to a point where the air up there will be too thin to support even one luxury maker. Remember H&H, VC and Purdey.
Click to expand...
It is a balancing act for sure.
 
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