35 Whelen recoil and terminal performance?

BAY said:

My Ruger African 35 Whelen is a pussy cat. My 7RM has more perceived recoil, sharp. Not even in the same conversation as a 375. Just make sure the LOP is correct. The 225 Accubond and 250 Oryx are most accurate in my gun. 200 TTSX is accurate as well but actually has a sharper perceived recoil.

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@BAY
The most comfortable to shoot in my Whelen is the 250@2,700 fps just feels like a shove.
The 225s @2,900fps comes back a little shaper but still not objectionable.
The 310s@ almost 2,500fps in the Whelen are noticeable but still nothing but a big shove.
I find the Whelen to be more of a push than a sharp slap of the magnums.
What loads are you using in your Whelen.
Bob

channelkat said:

That is a beautiful rifle. I have been eyeballing one myself. Torn between that or converting an old rifle so I could thread for suppressor. Thought this might be the excuse I needed to convince the wife I needed another rifle.

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@channelkat
I made mine out of a Stevens 200 (aka Savage 110) . Best thing ever to do with a 270. Make it into a WHELEN.
Bob

45-70guy said:

I’m 5’6” and 125 pounds, I shoot my 35 whelens all the time 3-4 times a week and it’s not much more than my 30-06.
I just got back SA with my 35 Whelen and a 225g North Fork , it dropped everything I pointed it at.
No eland this time but wildebeest, zebra, kudu, sable, and more. Was the perfect combo in my eyes.
A 200g TSX is probably the best combo for the whelen if you wanted maximum velocity and bullet drop.

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@45-70guy
I'm only 5' 18" and a bit over 240# and 30 of my full power loads off the bench is a walk in the park. The last few are getting to near a hard walk but still not bad.
Bob

Hedge774 said:

Also, have you considered a 9.3x62? 286 grains and very mild on the shoulder!

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@Hedge774
Fire my mates 9.3 and that bitch will beat you silly by smacking you up the side of the head. One shot cured me of the evil rifle. The stock was all wrong. A Ruger No1 in 458 Lott was more pleasant than that bitch
Bob

Flbt said:

My rifle a 358 not a 35w
But to me with the blr I can’t really tell much difference between the 250gr 358 and a 190 gr 308 in recoil
But the hit seams on par with a 338 with 200gr silvertips and corlock on whitetail and hogs.

I would think the 35w would be more of the same a step up from the 358

The new federal pek loads would be interesting in 35 cals

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@Flbt
How much faster do you want to drive the Whelen
3000fps with a 200
2,900fps with a 225
2,700fps with a 250
And
2,455fps with a 310
That's more than enough and still leaves your hat on your head when you pull the trigger
Bob

Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:

For game the size of eland I would step up to the 225gn TTSX and load it to 2,800fps. This would do for ALL PLAINS GAME.

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I would not think twice about shooting an eland with a 338WM. I doubt many people would question it.

My 338 shoots a 210gr TTSX at 2800fps. And recoil is easy, thx to the squishy factory savage pad.

channelkat said:

Does my perception match reality? I am under the impression that the 35 Whelen would be a step up in recoil (and terminal performance) from the .30-06, but significantly less than 300 Win Mag or 375H&H.

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300WM does not kick much more to me than an -06.

My 375 is pleasant to shoot but it's not light and it has a 1" limbsaver on it.

If your son doesn't mind carrying a 375, the recoils is honestly not bad. More of a shove than a whack.

Shootist43 said:

My two sons and I have taken a 35 Whelen to Africa. Several times in fact. My Whelen is a repurposed '03-A3 with a laminated Boyds stock. It is a bit heavier than either of my sons' rifles, but it mitigates the recoil. All three rifles like the 225 Gr. Barnes bullets. The 200 Gr Factory SST(s) are a lot faster, but the recoil is more than what I like. I did use mine on an Eland. We took 18 animals between us most went down in less than 40 yards. Six or seven dropped where they stood.

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@Shootist43
Art imm still waiting for a report back on how you and young Art found my 250gn loads.
Did you ever get around to loading any of those 225gn Woodleigh Hydro's mate.
Bob

meigsbucks said:

Although I always look for an excuse to purchase a new rifle and consider the .35 Whelen a prize, your son is already proficient with the 7PRC and the .30/06. The .30/06 with a 200gr bullet like the Swift will be in the same velocity vicinity as the Whelen and as long as placement is good, should take any PG.

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@meigsbucks
Sorry but the 06 with a 200grainer at 2,500 fps comes nowhere near a Whelen with a 250grainer at 2,700fps and 4,000plus fpe.
Bob

C.W. Richter said:

That is a fantastic question! I do not and could probably research it (or

call Ty Herring O' Barnes, but I suspect what happened (me thinking SD numbers to the Moon! LOL) is what you allude to...it's not that thick and the bullet set up (est. half a meter/18-20" or so) into the HUGE 2,400 lb eland. (That'd be the equivalent of out the other side of a (second) deer and collecting the bullet on the far hide of an elk or big bear!!) I do have some info on 'em somewhere. 'Got 'em at a very old outdoors store (1/2 box of dust atop each of 2 boxes!) but that store is still open and more recently opened a fancy new shop! God Bless 'em. But, an Eland is a HUGE animal. HUGE. Relatively thick skin, big boned, incredible musculature and then that natural fat marbling. Swift or Nos PT (or big Barnes) would be the way to go (anything newer, more premium construction.) It's definitely the old cup/core design, if not Gen 1! It may even be a decent jacket, but it has no anchor points...no interlock, no partitions a la Nos PTs or Swift's improvement of same. My Son took a very nice L. Eland using Rem factory 270 Core-Lokt (also an improvement over what I first used nearly 20 years ago to the day!) and then brained a 42" bull that eve using same.

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@C.W. Richter
The Whelen loaded with a 310gn bonded Woodleigh RNSP at over 2,400 fps should puch a good hole a long ways thru an eland then.
Bob

Delloro said:

I would not think twice about shooting an eland with a 338WM. I doubt many people would question it.

My 338 shoots a 210gr TTSX at 2800fps. And recoil is easy, thx to the squishy factory savage pad.

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This.
There's a reason why there's 20x the .338's out there in the field being used by knowledgeable hunters for every one Whelen you'll see.

The .338 will do everything you need it to other than DG.
In a properly stocked rifle that fits you well the recoil will be easy to get used to with some practice, which is what you need to do before any hunt.
There is a wider selection of factory ammo that is available way more commonly than for the Whelen.
There is a wide selection of projectiles, way more than in .358.

The wife of the original Barnes bullets owner Connie (?) was a tiny Women, in stature/physique.
She loved her .338 and hunted most of Africa's game with one.

C.W. Richter said:

That is a fantastic question! I do not and could probably research it (or

call Ty Herring O' Barnes, but I suspect what happened (me thinking SD numbers to the Moon! LOL) is what you allude to...it's not that thick and the bullet set up (est. half a meter/18-20" or so) into the HUGE 2,400 lb eland. (That'd be the equivalent of out the other side of a (second) deer and collecting the bullet on the far hide of an elk or big bear!!) I do have some info on 'em somewhere. 'Got 'em at a very old outdoors store (1/2 box of dust atop each of 2 boxes!) but that store is still open and more recently opened a fancy new shop! God Bless 'em. But, an Eland is a HUGE animal. HUGE. Relatively thick skin, big boned, incredible musculature and then that natural fat marbling. Swift or Nos PT (or big Barnes) would be the way to go (anything newer, more premium construction.) It's definitely the old cup/core design, if not Gen 1! It may even be a decent jacket, but it has no anchor points...no interlock, no partitions a la Nos PTs or Swift's improvement of same. My Son took a very nice L. Eland using Rem factory 270 Core-Lokt (also an improvement over what I first used nearly 20 years ago to the day!) and then brained a 42" bull that eve using same.

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The reason I asked about the jacket thickness (JT) of the Barnes 300grn original is because I've seen conflicting accounts as to the JT of the 300grn Barnes Original RN in in .358" diameter in handloading articles where it's even mentioned. One source listed JT as 0.49 and added that accuracy was excellent. Another listed JT as 0.32. Obviously the thicker the jacket the better the bullet will hold up at near-max velocities when penetrating thick African hide and then into sinew and bone, as you describe.

Length of the .358"/300grn Barnes RN projectile was said to be 1.354". For guy with a 35 Whelen or a .358 Norma Mag, that doesn't create a COAL a problem, but for my application that's a long bullet.

I'm working with what is effectively a "short magnum" case in a short action (2.800") gun - the .350 Remington Magnum.

My goal was to develop a "heavy load" for my 20" M660 rifle using a 300grn bullet, close to what noted ballistics expert Ken Waters described in his Pet Loads tome in the chapter on this cartridge. Using powders like H4895 and IMR 4320, Waters reports getting velocities of 2250fps and 2191 respectively with the 300grn Barnes.

Two key variables are that Waters' rifle was a 22" Ruger M77, and the fact that its long action allowed him to slightly long-load the 300grn slugs past 2.800" OAL. In my research, however, other writers - like Layne Simpson and Al Miller - similarly describe a "heavy" load using the 300grn Barnes Original in their Remington model 600 carbines, which uses the same short-action as my 660.

Anyway, failing any more 300grn Barnes Originals being out there, I decided to experiment with the .358"/300grn round-tip (RT) bullets from Hawk Bullets. On my caliper, length runs between 1.290"-1.294", so shorter than the Barnes. Last summer, after going through a couple of boxes of their 0.35 JT bullets, I settled on a load that was reasonably accurate at 100-yds. But I've since been wondering whether Hawk's 0.50 JT bullet might improve on that.

For .358" shooters generally, Hawk offers a wide range of bullet-weights from 200-300grns (RTs and Spitzers) as well as JT options to suit your hunt. No connection to the company, I'm just passing along this information.

From Hawk Bullets webpage, starting with the 250grn weight RT bullets:




Currently I'm waiting on an order of the 300grn/0.50 RTs to run through the M660. So we'll see ....

PaulT said:

This.
There's a reason why there's 20x the .338's out there in the field being used by knowledgeable hunters for every one Whelen you'll see.

The .338 will do everything you need it to other than DG.
In a properly stocked rifle that fits you well the recoil will be easy to get used to with some practice, which is what you need to do before any hunt.
There is a wider selection of factory ammo that is available way more commonly than for the Whelen.
There is a wide selection of projectiles, way more than in .358.

The wife of the original Barnes bullets owner Connie (?) was a tiny Women, in stature/physique.
She loved her .338 and hunted most of Africa's game with one.

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@PaulT
The 338 may be more popular and more readily available than the Whelen
BUT
A properly ( yes the Whelen is a reloaders proposition to get the best out of it) gives absolutely nothing up to the 338 and does it with less fuss and bother. There are some here that have given up using the 338 after loading the Whelen to its potential and gone back to fall in love with the Whelen again.
The recoil of the 338 even in a well fitting rifle seems a lot sharper than the push of the Whelen.
Connie Brooks could even shoot a 460 off the bench without issue but what does that price. I know some rather big men that find anything more than the prissy little 243 to be objectionable. Size has nothing to do with recoil management.
I will take a Whelen over a 338 anytime the same as you would prefer a 338. In the end both will kill plains game with authority.
Bob

Jack Stevens said:

The reason I asked about the jacket thickness (JT) of the Barnes 300grn original is because I've seen conflicting accounts as to the JT of the 300grn Barnes Original RN in in .358" diameter in handloading articles where it's even mentioned. One source listed JT as 0.49 and added that accuracy was excellent. Another listed JT as 0.32. Obviously the thicker the jacket the better the bullet will hold up at near-max velocities when penetrating thick African hide and then into sinew and bone, as you describe.

Length of the .358"/300grn Barnes RN projectile was said to be 1.354". For guy with a 35 Whelen or a .358 Norma Mag, that doesn't create a COAL a problem, but for my application that's a long bullet.

I'm working with what is effectively a "short magnum" case in a short action (2.800") gun - the .350 Remington Magnum.
View attachment 779503
My goal was to develop a "heavy load" for my 20" M660 rifle using a 300grn bullet, close to what noted ballistics expert Ken Waters described in his Pet Loads tome in the chapter on this cartridge. Using powders like H4895 and IMR 4320, Waters reports getting velocities of 2250fps and 2191 respectively with the 300grn Barnes.

Two key variables are that Waters' rifle was a 22" Ruger M77, and the fact that its long action allowed him to slightly long-load the 300grn slugs past 2.800" OAL. In my research, however, other writers - like Layne Simpson and Al Miller - similarly describe a "heavy" load using the 300grn Barnes Original in their Remington model 600 carbines, which uses the same short-action as my 660.

Anyway, failing any more 300grn Barnes Originals being out there, I decided to experiment with the .358"/300grn round-tip (RT) bullets from Hawk Bullets. On my caliper, length runs between 1.290"-1.294", so shorter than the Barnes. Last summer, after going through a couple of boxes of their 0.35 JT bullets, I settled on a load that was reasonably accurate at 100-yds. But I've since been wondering whether Hawk's 0.50 JT bullet might improve on that.

For .358" shooters generally, Hawk offers a wide range of bullet-weights from 200-300grns (RTs and Spitzers) as well as JT options to suit your hunt. No connection to the company, I'm just passing along this information.

From Hawk Bullets webpage, starting with the 250grn weight RT bullets:

250 grains x .035 RT

250 grains x .050 RT

275 grains x .035 RT

275 grains x .050 RT

300 grains x .030 RT

300 grains x .035 RT

300 grains x .050 RT

Bullet Selection | Hawk Bullets

The World's Largest Selection of Bullets. .351 SL 33 WCF 348 Winchester 50 Beowulf 38-55 9.3mm 8mm 32 Remmington 270 Caliber Cal 280 Ross 50-110 38-40

hawkbullets.com

Currently I'm waiting on an order of the 300grn/0.50 RTs to run through the M660. So we'll see ....
View attachment 779502

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@Jack Stevens
That why I prefer the Whelen over the 350 REM. Yes the 350 is a fantastic cartridge and the original 200gn load the projectile had a different design that allowed it to work well on moose. It can also be had in a short handy package.
Personally I prefer a full size rifle and I have a 25" barrel on my Whelen. This allows me to get over 2,400 fps with the Woodleigh 310 gn RNSP. Turns the Whelen into something else again still with manageable recoil.
Bob

Mr Bob
I would love to have a 35w built on a ss blr takedown
That fast easy to carry rifle with the option to have exter mags loaded and ready to go.

Seems like it would be a answer to every thing under dangerous game

Flbt said:

Mr Bob
I would love to have a 35w built on a ss blr takedown
That fast easy to carry rifle with the option to have exter mags loaded and ready to go.

Seems like it would be a answer to every thing under dangerous game

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@Flbt
Surely you could get a nice 30-06 BLR takedown down and have it rebored to 35cal
Bob

I sometimes wonder if the 35 Whelen had come first, if it would be where the '06 is today--THE versatile caliber of all time. It is that efficient. I would convert to it now, but Mannlicher rotary magazines just won't allow it to be done, sigh.

To the OP--I doubt that a 225 gr bullet out of a Whelen would have distinguishably more recoil than a 220 gr. bullet out of an '06. They have the same parent case. The real plus is that it is a cartridge your son can grow in to over time and utilize even bigger bullets in the future as his recoil tolerance grows. That makes it a long term African go to rifle IMO. You are on the right track, just need to educate him and pull the trigger on it.

Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:

@Flbt
Surely you could get a nice 30-06 BLR takedown down and have it rebored to 35cal
Bob

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I have been looking for a used one for years.
If I live long enough to cut the pine trees again. I will probably have one made up even if I have to buy a new blr and send it off.
There a company over here that specializes in doing 35 cal conversion.
That’s who did my 760 in 358 before I got the blr in 358.
With the blr they only do the take downs from my understanding.

channelkat said:

Does my perception match reality? I am under the impression that the 35 Whelen would be a step up in recoil (and terminal performance) from the .30-06, but significantly less than 300 Win Mag or 375H&H. For the rounds you would use, say on a large Eland, would you say this is accurate?

My boy is light and lengthy. He is handling .30-06 and 7PRC just fine, however I am being told by the outfitter that he really recommends 375 H&H on Eland or at least 300 Win Mag, due to the brush and body size in the area.

I am concerned about the boy handling that much recoil at this time. Would a 35 Whelen (firing something like a 200 gr TTSX) be a meaningful compromise? Other thoughts? Perhaps work on lower velocity 375 loads?

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If you are interested in anything about this caliber, search here on the Bob Nelson forum. He knows everything about

Flbt said:

I have been looking for a used one for years.
If I live long enough to cut the pine trees again. I will probably have one made up even if I have to buy a new blr and send it off.
There a company over here that specializes in doing 35 cal conversion.
That’s who did my 760 in 358 before I got the blr in 358.
With the blr they only do the take downs from my understanding.

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J.E. Satterly used to provide such re-bore services, and the ‘06-to-.35W conversion on barrels was a frequent request. Is that who you mean?

www.35caliber.com