Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903

tunatoy76

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I have the opportunity to purchase a 1903 takedown manufactured in 1929, it's in good condition but is missing the cleaning rod and folding sight leaf. I haven't been able to establish a value via the internet, any ideas on value? The bore and chamber look to be unfired, the stock has a few ding's and some minor rust on some screw head's.
Thanks Shawn
 
Looks to be a nice rifle
Screenshot_20210218-165549~2.jpg
 
The light colored stock is somewhat unusual, but not unique and possibly the original finish (they are usually much darker). Reproduction rod sets can be found, there are presently two sources for reproductions on Ebay. Sight leaves can also be found or fabricated.

Though not much can be discerned from the single photograph seems to show a nice, original, M1903 Take Down.

The M1903 is the most popular MS as it uses the available 6.5X54 cartridge, though it is still better to make one's own as cartridges must be of proper length and overall profile in order to work flawlessly through the wonderful Schoenauer magazine. Though the most common pre WW2 MS, they are highly sought after.

The fact that it is an original Steyr take down adds considerable value. The apparent fact that it has not been cut for a scope. also adds points for originality, though it's nice to have a removable scope (my cased M1910 TD has a claw mount Gerard B).

Watch auction sites for value. If all is well with the rifle, $1,000 USD would be bargain basement, could go $2,000 or better depending on condition.

View this thread for MS information: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/mannlicher-schönauer-prewar-m1900-m1903-m1905-m1908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

The pre WW2 Mannlicher Schoenauer is considered by many to be among the finest sporting arms ever produced. The smoothness of action is legendary. Their lightness and balance makes them superb light 'brush guns' or for the stalking mountain hunt.

MS ST39 50 Mannlicher Schoenauer 02.jpg
 
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Thanks heaps. It's the only takedown that I have seen in australia. It's from a deceased estate and I think he had a few so the missing bits may have been borrowed for a rifle he was using. The asking price is a little higher than you suggested, how much value do you think that the takedown option would add?.
Thanks Shawn
 
That truly comes down to how much it's worth to you. For 'real world' price comparisons, scour auction sites worldwide.

The Take Down Model has great 'gee whiz' factor, the tang groove arrangement adds additional strength to that crack prone area of the stock, and is convenient for travel.

They seem to run 'feast or famine' on the internet auction sites. For months none will be seen and then there will be a few available at once. Before the internet they were little known and many otherwise well informed people insisted they did not exist or had been modified.

Several references of decades past referred to them as the 'British Take Down Model' with some indicating that they were converted to TD in England. They were not, though most or all that I have seen bear British proofs (does yours?) and several 'bespoke' British retailers had their own 'break open' versions. The MS takedown system is rather similar to that used by Westley Richards in the early twentieth century.. Though most seem to have been sold through the British trade, the TD as you have was manufactured in that configuration at OWGS (Steyr).

Westley Richards Takedown 1912.jpg

Westley Richards Mauser, 1912

MS Proofs British on M1908.jpg

British proofs on M1905.

They were rather popular with British traveling hunters as they shipped well, taken down, in a fitted case or stowed in a steamer trunk.

MS M1910 TD.jpg
MS TD Cased 02.jpg


Assembly and disassembly is remarkably quick and simple. Remove magazine, turn lever at trigger guard, pull pin, lift out complete barreled action (do not lose pin). Reverse to assemble.

My Grand Dad bought his second hand cased M1910 TD at Colombo, Ceylon (British colony) in 1930 or 31 while he was overseeing rubber operations for Goodyear Tire and Rubber.

JFE Ceylon Hunt 00 Goodyear Wingfoot 001 (3).jpg
 
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Unless (or even if) it's outrageously priced, if that MS is in 'near new' condition, you may be kicking yourself hard if you let it get away. It may become the "one I could have had" that haunts you for decades to come.

I have seen several examples of Aussie MS enthusiasts having paid very heavy shipping fees, along with all manner of legal fees and months of time expended to obtain a quality Mannlicher Schoenauer. Worse yet, some have been lost or broken in transit.

To find a near virgin MS TD readily available to you may be a rare occurrence, just as I'm waiting for the ideal P08 do just drop in my lap.

The light colored stock is 'growing on me'. They are rather scarce with most early MS stocks being a dark, rich, walnut
 
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My 1903 is not a takedown but has the same color of wood. I can never seem to find one that hasn't suffered the effects of corrosive priming in the barrel so when I hear "looks to be unfired" I would be ready to pounce.
 
Thanks for the input, I have put a deposit on it. It's a british proofed rifle and has the distributors name and address on the barrel, it's very small print and I was unable to read it unmagnified. Has anyone had luck following the history on these rifles?
 
Thanks for the input, I have put a deposit on it. It's a british proofed rifle and has the distributors name and address on the barrel, it's very small print and I was unable to read it unmagnified. Has anyone had luck following the history on these rifles?



Researching the history of a particular MS is a bit like genealogy. You have the 'family records' or you don't. If you don't, perhaps dogged research may provide clues. Retailer's records may or may not be available and if so, may not include serial numbers or customer names.

As you've indicated that the soon to be yours MS (congratulations, by the way) has the retailer's name inscribed in it, you're already half way to discovery or dead end.

Mine was purchased in 1930 or 31 by my grandfather at Colombo, Ceylon. Its history from that point forward is known to me. Before that time, it is not. As it is a cased and British proofed Take Down Model (case label not extant, unfortunately), I suppose it's possible that a British retailer logged its serial number and that such records may (or may not) still exist.

Danggit... now I've another thing about which to obsess.


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The history of the genre, abbreviated and 'in a nutshell', goes a lot like this;

Ritter Ferdinand Von Mannlicher was a prolific Austrian firearms designer who had created several successful military arms during the latter portion of the nineteenth century. He had been a major contributor to the Gewehr 88, or 'commission rifle', a common ancestor to later, competing, Mannlicher and Mauser designs such as the MS and Mauser 98.

While the Gewehr 88 used the 'en bloc clip', or Mannlicher Packet Loading System, and the Mauser 98 a stacked box magazine, a new firearm was introduced at the Paris World's Fair of 1900 which combined a Mannlicher influenced receiver and bolt with a 'stripper' clip fed rotary magazine designed by Steyr engineer Otto Schoenauer and a new, proprietary, 6.5X54 rimless cartridge. It was a finely built, superbly balanced, smooth functioning firearm that would prove its accuracy and durability over the next several decades of military and civilian use.

Built by Oesterr Waffenfabrik Ges. Steyr in prototype military form and as high grade sporting rifles and stutzen (full stocked carbines), the M1900 was very well received and highly rated by those who reviewed it, yet unit cost was high as it was costly to produce. The only major military contract won by the MS was with Greece, who adopted a 1903 revision of the military design.

As production began in 1905 at OWGS on the Y1903 'Greek Contract' MS, fine MS sporting arms also entered production for the civilian market with the M1903, also chambered exclusively for the 6.5X54 MS cartridge, and the M1905 which was exclusively available in a new 9X56 MS proprietary cartridge.
Both were available from the Steyr factory as full stocked stutzen, half stocked rifle, and a dandy take down system very similar to that used by Westley Richards by which the entire barreled action may be rapidly and easily disassembled from the stock without tools. Single or double set triggers were available (and were interchangeable) on civilian models with exception of the take down, which only had the military type two stage trigger.

As 'Greek' contracts renewed in 1914 and beyond, additional civilian models were added to the line, each with their own proprietary MS cartridge. These were the M1908 (8X56) and M1910 (9.5X57, also known as .375 Nitro Express Rimless).

The M1924 introduced a longer receiver to accommodate the 'U.S. Cartridge of 1906' (.30-'06) and from that sprang the 'High Velocity' (as called by Stoeger, then exclusive U.S. retailer) offerings in several chamberings including 7X64, 8X60, 9.3X62, and the elusive 10.75X68.

Greek military contracts continued with the Y1903/14/27 ('Breda') and Y1930.

Production of the aforementioned sporting arms continued, though in small numbers, through the 1938 Anschluss, or Nazi occupation of Austria, and into the second world war (stamped 'Made in Germany').

After WW2, production resumed with the M1950, M1952, and later editions. Gone are the trap door buttstock with break down cleaning rod storage, stripper clip guides, options such as 'pop up' tang sights, removable grip cap (spare front sight bead storage) and the wonderful Take Down Model of pre WW2 days.

The logic of MS model numbers relevant to actual characteristics becomes a bit odd during the 'postwar' period as the MC and MCA models come into play, which indicate style of stock comb and cheek rest rather than mechanical differences or chamberings. The true meaning of 'Model NO' seems to be somewhat of a mystery. In catalogs of the period, MC (Monte Carlo Stock) becomes 'Model of 1961' as MCA (Monte Carlo All Purpose or Monte Carlo Amerikanisch, depending on U.S. or Europe) becomes 'Model of 1962'. A buyer wanting the 'old style' stock one was instructed to order the "Model 1952 GK".

The postwar models were available in a wide array of chamberings, still in stutzen or half stock, and with single or double set triggers. Production continued, in ever decreasing numbers, through 1972.


Thinking 01.jpg
MS-The_Brain-Rifle-3.jpg
 
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What caliber??
 
What caliber??

All original, unaltered, M1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer sporting arms, as well as all original , unaltered, 'Greek' military Y1903, Y1903/14, Y1903/14/27 ('Breda'), and Y1930 are chambered in 6.5X54 rimless, a proprietary Mannlicher Schoenauer cartridge.

The MS proprietary chamberings that followed were 9X56 (M1905), 8X56 (M1908), and 9.5X57 (M1910).

MS Proprietary Cartridges.jpg
 

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6.5. Now I need to find dies and reasonably priced case's. Just sold three others to pay for it so I'm a little shy about a commission


The 6.5 MS dies come pretty easy. Watch auction sites and be patient, or even if you buy new at retail will be far less than the cost of dies for M1905, M1908, M1910.

Projectiles will be your 'issue'.

Consult with others regarding M1903 reloads (did you view this thread? - https://www.africahunting.com/threa...908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

Cases for 6.5X54 should not be a problem. As 6.5X54 is readily available 'factory' yet with an overall profile that may not feed well in the MS, one could either pull the projectiles and reload the brass or simply load them two at a time and shoot them.

You can buy new, reasonably priced, cases from Quality Cartridge: https://www.grafs.com/catalog/category/categoryId/702

The feeding issues related to short or narrow nosed projectiles manifest as the third round is loaded.

Either load only two of the problematic cartridges at a time or load three proper fitting cartridges and 'top off' with two of the buggers.

Build your fresh reloads like this and they'll feed like greased snot. There is nothing smoother than a Mannlicher Schoenauer when properly fed:

MS Eley 6.5X54.jpg
 

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