Leopard hunting: bait vs hounds

[HankBuck]

I think I have read every thread on this site on leopard hunting. Before I boarded the first plane on the route to Windhoek, I knew I was going to hunt leopard. My PG safari was an opportunity to ask questions and learn and, to a certain degree, interview my PH.

I’ve reached out through DM to several forum members here on advice, expectations and training for a hunt over hounds. The responses from each of them were helpful and I’m very thankful for all their time answering questions.

The post by @PANTHER TRACKERS is awesome. My most sincere thanks to him for his time and thoughtful breakdown.

I elected to hunt leopard over hounds for my first attempt. I will be in Zimbabwe in May. After months of severe introspection, I concluded I simply don’t believe I can pull off a traditional baited hunt successfully. I have sinus issues. I can see myself suffering in a blind and clearing my throat, coughing, sneezing at the wrong time and blowing up the hunt. I could take not being successful on a hound hunt. But, if I wasted a PH’s and his crews time and my time because of a cough..well, I’d be embarrassed beyond words.

@Betterinthebush - sounds like an exciting and unique hunt and look forward to your Hunt recap. I love hunting with Hounds for “anything” and even rabbits are more Fun because of the dogs. My 3 Cougar Hunts resulted in only 1 Cougar killed (even though we cut tracks and had chases each hunt). I am very picky about what size Cat I will shoot and discussed this with my Guide before booking the Hunt, told him I didn’t want a small cat and rather go home empty handed, made certain I could “pass up” any small cat dogs treed and keep hunting for a better one — Guide agreed (some guides want you to shoot the first “legal size” cat treed otherwise hut is over). On my 2nd hunt dog treed large Tom and I passed up and it was shot by my friend. That big tom Cat “treed” after a short chase and I got to the tree first and stood there under the tree for 15 minutes, along with the Guide, and just watched a large Tom only 20 feet away from me - laying across a limb only 15’ above the ground, very relaxed, panting/exhusted while only one Hound (barking at the base) kept him from jumping to the ground. We waited for my very heavy and Out-of-shape friend to make his way to the tree and let him take the 20 foot shot (which he botched & required a 2nd shot). That Cat then launched out of the tree and ran right past Guide & me going downhill with one dog and Us running after him - cat expired 200 yrds away. I would Not want that ‘Bad shot’ made on a Leopard.
How does Leopard Guide handle it when Dogs tree or bay a small Leopard? Even if they start the dogs on a very clear Large track - dogs can “switch off” and end up chasing another smaller cat (they follow fresh scent Not track size) - wonder what PH does in that situation, as it’s not as easy to get “off” a Leopard as it is a Cougar?

 

[Philip Glass]

I am not hunting leopard yet!
This is just for my education, To be considered for some of my future hunts.

You guys who hunted leopard, can you tell me pros and cons of hunting leopard on bait, versus hunting leopard with hounds?

Success rate one vs another?

What is the package price difference one vs another?

Any legal constraints in some countries for these two types of hunt?

Timing? Days to be booked for leopard on bait, vs leopard hunt with hounds? (Most baited leopard packages are 2 weeks, that I have seen, what about hunting with dogs?)

Anything else that you can think of about the subject?

Edit: I made mistake on title, it was meant to be bait vs hounds... I asked moderator to change....

I've done both. The success rate depends more on the operator than the method. The days of the hunt and prebaiting needs are the same. If you are looking at a hound hunt you must be in shape to keep up with the dogs. Make sure you do not book a hunt where they take the client in the truck to follow the hounds. This is how much of it is being done these days.
Cost? About the same I guess?
Hound hunting is dangerous because when the cat sees you he is coming to kill you. Blind hunting is dangerous because even though it is a bench rest shot it is the most often messed up shot on safari. This puts the PH and his crew in great danger.
Good for you for doing plenty of research before booking a leopard hunt!
I can say that a leopard hunt with @DALTON & YORK SAFARIS is a very high quality and affordable hunt. They are all masters of the cat vs PH game!

 

[Philip Glass]

Sounds like leopard over hounds is going to also require a hunter that is physically fit to a higher level in order to maintain the pursuit along with delivering a proper shot.

I’ve done drills at the shooting range where I do jumping jacks and squat thrusts to get my heart rate up, then try to take a shot offhand at a 50 yard target. Not the same as being calm and shooting off sticks.

Prepare accordingly, and let the range officer know what you are doing so they don’t think you’re crazy.

Very true. After running for about half a mile we came to the hounds and the cat. As soon as the cat saw us he charged. No time for sticks, no time to think about anything but shoot!

 

[Betterinthebush]

How does Leopard Guide handle it when Dogs tree or bay a small Leopard? Even if they start the dogs on a very clear Large track - dogs can “switch off” and end up chasing another smaller cat (they follow fresh scent Not track size) - wonder what PH does in that situation, as it’s not as easy to get “off” a Leopard as it is a Cougar?

@HankBuck , no idea. My houndsman/PH told me it happens, and it’s dangerous getting the pack collected under a female or immature Tom. I have faith in his judgment and ability. His reference list was long and recent. He assured me he gives 100% with his hounds and team (the pics he’s been sending me from hunts this year are astounding) to find the big Toms, but if after turning the dogs loose, if it’s a legal cat, that’s my cat. Too dangerous to pull dogs away with a mature Tom mad in a tree or rocks.

 

[HankBuck]

@HankBuck , no idea. My houndsman/PH told me it happens, and it’s dangerous getting the pack collected under a female or immature Tom. I have faith in his judgment and ability. His reference list was long and recent. He assured me he gives 100% with his hounds and team (the pics he’s been sending me from hunts this year are astounding) to find the big Toms, but if after turning the dogs loose, if it’s a legal cat, that’s my cat. Too dangerous to pull dogs away with a mature Tom mad in a tree or rocks.

@Betterinthebush - so if I understand correctly: if it’s a ‘Legal Leopard’ you must take it? While I understand the reasoning, safety factors involved pulling dogs off a Small cat, that requirement to “take Legal Cat” would stop me from this Hunt. I would be extremely disappointed to travel to Africa, the time invested, the time planning, - for it to end with a Small Cat that I’m either disappointed in, had No choice but to shoot it——-or maybe even someone else had to shoot it first because of Safety reasons. I understand my concerns might be Unlikely to come true but the possibility it could happen is enough to make me pause and look at a Baited Hunt.
The excitement of Leopard hunt over Hounds is a strong draw and I assume most are very rewarding, tempting. If I was able to make several Leopard hunts then a Hound hunt would certainly be one of them - but I think my First leopard hunt must be over bait….that’s just my thoughts

 

[Foxi]

Can the dogs even be called back if it's the wrong leopard?
To young, a female animal, etc.?

 

[Betterinthebush]

@Betterinthebush - so if I understand correctly: if it’s a ‘Legal Leopard’ you must take it? While I understand the reasoning, safety factors involved pulling dogs off a Small cat, that requirement to “take Legal Cat” would stop me from this Hunt. I would be extremely disappointed to travel to Africa, the time invested, the time planning, - for it to end with a Small Cat that I’m either disappointed in, had No choice but to shoot it——-or maybe even someone else had to shoot it first because of Safety reasons. I understand my concerns might be Unlikely to come true but the possibility it could happen is enough to make me pause and look at a Baited Hunt.
The excitement of Leopard hunt over Hounds is a strong draw and I assume most are very rewarding, tempting. If I was able to make several Leopard hunts then a Hound hunt would certainly be one of them - but I think my First leopard hunt must be over bait….that’s just my thoughts

That’s how I understand it going in. It’s a gamble, no doubt. I choose my houndsman after a long time comparing the area I wanted to other very good operations. His references were impressive and his record of cats he’s taken as well as his candor in answering my questions sealed it for me. Going with him to an area famous for boss Toms cost, but the record of success and safety weighed heavily in my decision to contract his services.

 

[BeeMaa]

Very true. After running for about half a mile we came to the hounds and the cat. As soon as the cat saw us he charged. No time for sticks, no time to think about anything but shoot!

What were you using when it came for you?

 

[HankBuck]

Can the dogs even be called back if it's the wrong leopard?
To young, a female animal, etc.?

@Foxi that’s a good question and would need to ask the Houndsman that handles these dogs. Most hounds can Not be called off a Cat or a Bear once the chase starts and the scent is strong and they start closing on the target animal but perhaps “some” could be called off or use Ecollars to help shock them off - as a last resort. I don’t think many Houndsman would want to shock their dogs off chasing a target animal because the Dog is chasing exactly the animal it is trained to —- can be perceived as a “correction” by the dog the same as if it was chasing “trash” (a Non target animal). Only the PH and Houndsman could answer whether or Not they can Stop the Hounds during a chase, good Hounds have strong Drive and are Single Minded once a chase starts.

 

[HankBuck]

Very true. After running for about half a mile we came to the hounds and the cat. As soon as the cat saw us he charged. No time for sticks, no time to think about anything but shoot!

@Philip Glass how many shots were fired?, by how many people?, with what type of firearms? Sounds like a fast paced and exciting ending to your Leopard hunt

 

[Foxi]

@Foxi that’s a good question and would need to ask the Houndsman that handles these dogs. Most hounds can Not be called off a Cat or a Bear once the chase starts and the scent is strong and they start closing on the target animal but perhaps “some” could be called off or use Ecollars to help shock them off - as a last resort. I don’t think many Houndsman would want to shock their dogs off chasing a target animal because the Dog is chasing exactly the animal it is trained to —- can be perceived as a “correction” by the dog the same as if it was chasing “trash” (a Non target animal). Only the PH and Houndsman could answer whether or Not they can Stop the Hounds during a chase, good Hounds have strong Drive and are Single Minded once a chase starts.

Every year, I go boar hunting with my dog.
When he's on the trail or in a fight, there's no chance of calling him off.
Our dogs chase and corner the boar until it's dead.
Problem solved. That's what they're there for. I'm sure it's the same with every pack of dogs, no matter where.
There are no breaks or staff meetings in between.

 

[Foxi]

during a hunt in Botswana these days I ve "shot" this guy with my pulsar on 15 m
Heart palpitations were the order of the day.

 

[mark-hunter]

What were you using when it came for you?

Thread 'ZIMBABWE: Leopard Charge My Nightmare In Zimbabwe'

Jun 27, 2017

Earlier this year as I was planning a third try for leopard I figured it was time to change tactics. I got in contact with Martin Pieters and told him I wanted a hound hunt in Zim. We debated the pros and cons and decided to hire PH Scott Bailey from Bulawayo to guide me in the Matopos area for a leopard hunt with hounds. Scott has extensive experience with leopard and hunting all over Zim for DG. My safari started June 19 and from the day I hit the ground we had bad news. A big leopard that Scott had patterned was killed by hyenas just before I arrived. Now the territories were all...

• Philip Glass
• hound hunting leopard leopard charge philip glass
• Replies: 198
• Forum: Hunting reports Africa

• 
• 

 

[mark-hunter]

@Philip Glass how many shots were fired?, by how many people?, with what type of firearms? Sounds like a fast paced and exciting ending to your Leopard hunt

See the previous post; I've included the link to Phillips' leopard charge report.

 

[Rare Breed]

I've done the classic bait hunt for leopard...without success like many others. Some get a cat on their first hunt but you can research the archives here as I have posted topics to get feedback and there are a lot of hunters who have to come back at least once if not multiple times for a leopard. Personally, I loved the strategy and tactics of baiting but we were chasing a ranch cat and they are pressured and educated. I'm hoping to get a cat on my 2nd attempt and did a LOT of research before making a decision to hunt with Panther Trackers and their highly trained dogs in Moz.

I greatly respect @PANTHER TRACKERS

 

[Rare Breed]

Sorry got cut off. I was going to say my concern with hounds is the experience @Philip Glass experienced on his hound hunt

 

[channelkat]

I understand it’s not a realistic expectation to to track a leopard, so a hound hunt has been growing on my mind. I’m curious though does anybody call them in? I’ve seen a couple videos where they would call croc in and I’m super interested in that. Calling probably turns me on the most but I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of anybody doing it for the big cats.

With finite time and resources I don’t personally have much interest in siting in a blind for lion, leopard or even croc. I don’t even like sitting in a tree stand, though I’ve done it when I had to.

 

[Green Chile]

You said finite time and resources...that's exactly what the outfitters are also facing. If they pay for a leopard permit, they need to get one killed so they can be profitable and continue. They will not be very interested in low percentage hunts like calling where it would be hard to even tell if the leopard in the bush is male or female, much less trying to get a shot on that cat. If unsuccessful, they will have to try and market the hunt again and their profit margins aren't high over the season already.

 

[Russ16]

I haven’t shot a leopard but I have hunted bear with hounds. I have to say I didn’t like it. It was exciting. But I just hate the sound of barking howling dogs. One of the things I love about hunts is the silence and paying attention to every little sound.

And I’m a dog guy. Bird hunting with my dogs is a love of mine. But they obviously don’t bark in that scenario.

I just don’t get excited thinking about a hunt with so ouch chaos a racket automatically built in.

 

[duckfish]

Dogs in August Botswana unit 47