Why is the 458 Lott Chambered for .450 Watts?

2L8

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A friend asked a question?

It appears most (if not all) .458 Lott Rifles are chambered for .450 Watts. Why? Was it a case of early rifles being built using Watts Reamers and it became traditional?

Lott = 2.80" Case

Watts = 2.85" Case

Same Taper.

Is it a case of allowing for the making of cases out of the .375 H&H and not trimming to proper length and they didn't realize by lengthing they had replicated the .450 Watts Chamber?
 

CAustin

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It aware of this myself. Interesting question however.
 

fsrmg1

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I heard that the Lott is shorter because when cases are made from 375 H&H Mag, they shorten up a bit when blown out to the 458. A portion is also taken off after the case is blown out when the neck is trimmed back square.
 

postoak

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So you are saying that .450 Watts ammo will always chamber in a .458 Lott rifle?
 

IvW

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So you are saying that .450 Watts ammo will always chamber in a .458 Lott rifle?

Nope other way around..the Watts cartridge is slightly longer than the Lott....458 WM can be fired in both if the need arises. 2.8" vs 2.85".

The .450 Ackley Magnum will however will accept the the Lott as well as the Watts...
 

2L8

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Lott = 2.80" Case
Watts = 2.85" Case
Lott Marked Rifles I've looked at are cut for the 2.85" Case (Doesn't make them all that way).

I was curious if that was because of the reamers initially used (Watts Reamers), intentional in case of wrong ammo or accidental (extra allowed for growth and just happened to coincide).
 

86thecat

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Fifty thou too long will still allow a case with heavy crimp to chamber relatively easily in the shorter chamber but the case neck will not expand enough to release the bullet. I believe that safety issue is why most Lotts are chambered for 2.850 brass. Beside shorter brass when cases are made from from .375 IIRC some bullets are too long above crimp groove to cycle thru a 3.60 magazine when used with 2.850" cases, hence the shorter brass length of the Lott.
 

Nhoro

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SAAMI specs for the Lott are chamber length 2.810 " with a chamfer to 2.822" where the diameter is .459 ".

Now some manufacturers may produce a longer reamer but I would think that reputable manufacturers would not. I think that you are seeing 458 win mag chambers reamed to Lott. The win mag has a long throat and actually the rifling starts further down the barrel than a factory lott. Win mag reaches bore size at 3.624 " while a Lott reaches bore size at 3.129 ". So when you ream out a Win Mag, the leade is much longer than Lott factory.
 

Professor Mawla

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The .450 Watts Magnum and the .458 Lott are identical in principle . The .458 Watts Magnum was originally designed in 1947 as an American wildcat . It’s creator approached Winchester to commercially manufacture rifles in this calibre , but Winchester was uninterested at the time .

Later when Mr . Watts invented a version of the .450 Watts Magnum which featured a shortened case , Winchester adapted it and began to market it as the .458 Winchester Magnum . By the 1980s ( by which time , the case capacity issues of the .458 Winchester Magnum has become widely recognized ) , Jack Lott “ invented “ the .458 Lott . In reality , this was ( for all practical points and purposes ) the .450 Watts Magnum with a different shoulder and a slightly shortened case .

These calibres are not interchangeable with one another . However , they shall both chamber the .458 Winchester Magnum without any problems .
 

postoak

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Nope other way around..the Watts cartridge is slightly longer than the Lott....458 WM can be fired in both if the need arises. 2.8" vs 2.85".

The .450 Ackley Magnum will however will accept the the Lott as well as the Watts...
But the OP said the Lott is built with a Watt's length chamber so, I'm guessing, the Lott will chamber a Watts. Is that right? Anyone ever tried it?

Personally, I like the idea of the .450 Ackley. I think the bottleneck allowing for a non-tapered neck is more appealing. But it might be cheaper to just buy a .460 Weatherby and load it down.
 

sestoppelman

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The .450 Watts Magnum and the .458 Lott are identical in principle . The .458 Watts Magnum was originally designed in 1947 as an American wildcat . It’s creator approached Winchester to commercially manufacture rifles in this calibre , but Winchester was uninterested at the time .

Later when Mr . Watts invented a version of the .450 Watts Magnum which featured a shortened case , Winchester adapted it and began to market it as the .458 Winchester Magnum . By the 1980s ( by which time , the case capacity issues of the .458 Winchester Magnum has become widely recognized ) , Jack Lott “ invented “ the .458 Lott . In reality , this was ( for all practical points and purposes ) the .450 Watts Magnum with a different shoulder and a slightly shortened case .

These calibres are not interchangeable with one another . However , they shall both chamber the .458 Winchester Magnum without any problems .
Not trying to play "gotcha", but these rounds lack a "shoulder". I know you know that.
 

postoak

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Another thing. The Lott is said to have a "ghost shoulder". I assume that means that the case body doesn't follow a straight line from web to case mouth but rather is angled in more and then the front part of the case has a parallel section for some distance. If that's the case and the .450 Watts doesn't have that two angle case side then it would make sense that the .450 Watts would be larger in diameter at the point of the rear of the neck. In that case, the .450 Watts might not fit in the .458 Lott even if the Lott had the same chamber length as the .450 Watts.
 

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