220 swift for big game?

[BnC 04]

Bob,
I would think a .22 Sooper (.308 necked down to .22) would be just the ticket? Get a 26" barrel with a 1:7 or 8 twist, shooting 90gr bullets in a Savage 110 and take everything in OZ with it! You could switch the barrel out with your Savage .35 Whelen and use surplus brass so no need to find .22-250 or .220 Swift brass? Just trying to be helpful?
CEH

My scotch almost went across the screen on that one.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As a counter point to this thread, I wonder if my 600 NE is too big for rabbits?

@JPmbogo
The 600 nitro is fine for rabbit, would do less damage than the swift.
Problem is after a day laying prone shooting it your shoulder would be down around your arse and you would have a very empty wallet,especially if you fired off a hundred or so rounds.
It think you may have a couple of cuts above your eye by having the scope set on 18 power for those longer shots. Might want to leave the scope at home
Ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[HWL]

My scotch almost went across the screen on that one.

Don't drink and have AH forum!!!



HWL

 

[Rocco490]

i argue more on the 220 swift just because so many people here 22 and just discount it as a bad rifle for anything bigger than predators when the reality is just the opposite. i mean heck some people hear even a 243/6mm and say the same things people have been saying about the 220 swift(or any other high power 22) on this very thread.

i would say that a sound start for a big game cartridge(whitetail and up) is 1600 foot lbs and up and the ability to carry around 1000 ft lbs of energy to 200yds. take 243 and 30-30 they do that perfectly. so then you look at 220 swift around 1600 ft lbs at the muzzle and carries 1000ft lbs out to 200 yds.

Wow this thread is intended to advocate for the use of the 220 swift on various big game.
And now the foolish energy comparisons out of context trying to validate the cartridges suitability.
Here is a scenario.
I am booked for an upcoming elephant hunt. I go to federals website to buy my ammo. I pull up the specs for the 458 win mag 500 Hydro Solid (a load I was recommended by my PH) and I see the 200yrd energy is 2,530 ft lbs. This doesn't seem very impressive. I was just reading the other day about the new 28 Nosler and the writer said it is the best big game round ever and it's really fast. So I pull up the 28 Nosler on Federals website they only list one load the 155 grain terminal ascent wonder what it's energy figures are. I discover at 200 yrds. It has 2,826 ft lbs. This is a good 10% more power than that 458 win mag. Elephants are the largest game out there I need all the power I can get! 28 Nosler it is! Fast forward to my Safari. I show up in camp and visit with my PH he is happy to hear about all the practice I have been putting in with my rifle. We head out to confirm zero. When I remove the rifle from the case my PH asks me "What the hell is that?" I start arguing with him and proceed to school him on ballistics quoting the various energy figures. Fast forward I am back on a plane heading home after my PH threw me out. How frustrating you just can't tell some folks anything........

 

[Forrest Halley]

That said, people are more or less in the same weight class as whitetail. If 5.56 NATO isn’t adequate on deer, something is dramatically wrong somewhere.

People do not have the same will to live that animals do. I'll put a wild turkey or a good sized deer over most of us every day of the week.

The guy in FL that kills deer and boar w/ the .22 WMR is interesting. It'll do. lol

I have heard the .22 WMR is a great round for culling deer at night from a few folks that have done such things. Apparently noise and over travel concerns are well satisfied by this cartridge. Spotlighting does allow a much better shot choice than fair chase hunting.

Terminal ballistics should be studied on inert targets (soap, phone books a.s.o.).
Tests on living animals, unless dictated by hunger and/or unavailability of suitable ammo/weapon are as indecent as child porn.

Well this is a bit over the top. When there are manipulative articles written by promoters to give a false confidence in new cartridges and bullets. Inert targets do not give an accurate account of terminal performance on living tissue.

Articles on ammunition are like statistics. You can find one that will support whatever position you take. This one I found interesting.

The Fall of the .220 Swift

The .220 Swift is still the fastest commercial rifle cartridge in the world. So why didn’t it catch on with North America hunters?

www.outdoorlife.com

Exactly. The over embellished new wonder cartridges are ridiculous.

i would say that a sound start for a big game cartridge(whitetail and up) is 1600 foot lbs and up and the ability to carry around 1000 ft lbs of energy to 200yds. take 243 and 30-30 they do that perfectly. so then you look at 220 swift around 1600 ft lbs at the muzzle and carries 1000ft lbs out to 200 yds.

Interesting theory. I use 1500 ft-lbs as the cut off for my maximum range of engagement on big game with a rifle. However in the case of the .30-06 with a 125gr soft point bullet, it is outclassed at 200 yards for whitetails despite the residual 1700 ft-lbs. So proper bullet selection must also be taken into account.

Don't drink and have AH forum!!!



HWL

Sometimes that is the only way to endure some of these threads. Tomato stakes, wonder nitros, recoilless cartridges, the ever sliding scale of big bore...sup, don't gulp.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Wow, 5 pages about using the Swift on big game!
get a .275 Rigby aka 7X57, 7mm Mauser, & don’t look back!

 

[Rocco490]

As I stated earlier I wont be posting further in this ridiculous thread. I only did so to address the energy comparisons which I did in the previous post to hopefully expose the flaws in that theory to the uninitiated. Yes SOME big game can be hunted ethically with a fast .224 caliber rifle round provided proper bullet selection and shot selection 2 crucial points to its successful use on such game. Still that does not mean it is the ideal cartridge for any big game animals even the lighter ones.
And one more way to explain just how bad it can be to look at energy figures out of context would be these admittedly extreme examples, a strong athletic man could likely slap someone upside the head with a force of around 200 hundred foot pounds of energy which is roughly the equivalent energy of a 38 special snub nose at point blank range however the damage actually inflicted between these two is not even close!!! And some of the hardest punchers have been estimated to generate in the 800-1000 ft lb area with their gloved fist similar energy to a point blank 44 magnum! Now while I wouldn't want to get punched in the face by one of them I expect I could survive it. As for the 44 magnum not so much......

 

[CoElkHunter]

As I stated earlier I wont be posting further in this ridiculous thread. I only did so to address the energy comparisons which I did in the previous post to hopefully expose the flaws in that theory to the uninitiated. Yes SOME big game can be hunted ethically with a fast .224 caliber rifle round provided proper bullet selection and shot selection 2 crucial points to its successful use on such game. Still that does not mean it is the ideal cartridge for any big game animals even the lighter ones.
And one more way to explain just how bad it can be to look at energy figures out of context would be these admittedly extreme examples, a strong athletic man could likely slap someone upside the head with a force of around 200 hundred foot pounds of energy which is roughly the equivalent energy of a 38 special snub nose at point blank range however the damage actually inflicted between these two is not even close!!! And some of the hardest punchers have been estimated to generate in the 800-1000 ft lb area with their gloved fist similar energy to a point blank 44 magnum! Now while I wouldn't want to get punched in the face by one of them I expect I could survive it. As for the 44 magnum not so much......

I agree with using a .220 Swift for hunting many/most big game animals is absurd! This is what I would use, especially in Africa, if I could find one:

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I agree with using a .220 Swift for hunting many/most big game animals is absurd! This is what I would use, especially in Africa, if I could find one:

@CoElkHunter
If the little 250 Savage can handle all those it make anything 30 cal and above redundant.
Loaded with a 100gn TTSX I would happily use it on game up to red deer but buffalo and elephant I don't think so.
Bob

 

[C.W. Richter]

People do not have the same will to live that animals do. I'll put a wild turkey or a good sized deer over most of us every day of the week.

I have heard the .22 WMR is a great round for culling deer at night from a few folks that have done such things. Apparently noise and over travel concerns are well satisfied by this cartridge. Spotlighting does allow a much better shot choice than fair chase hunting.

Well this is a bit over the top. When there are manipulative articles written by promoters to give a false confidence in new cartridges and bullets. Inert targets do not give an accurate account of terminal performance on living tissue.


Exactly. The over embellished new wonder cartridges are ridiculous.


Interesting theory. I use 1500 ft-lbs as the cut off for my maximum range of engagement on big game with a rifle. However in the case of the .30-06 with a 125gr soft point bullet, it is outclassed at 200 yards for whitetails despite the residual 1700 ft-lbs. So proper bullet selection must also be taken into account.

Sometimes that is the only way to endure some of these threads. Tomato stakes, wonder nitros, recoilless cartridges, the ever sliding scale of big bore...sup, don't gulp.

**Most comprehensive response on AH in Millenia. The Grand Prize being continued review of such responses!

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
If the little 250 Savage can handle all those it make anything 30 cal and above redundant.
Loaded with a 100gn TTSX I would happily use it on game up to red deer but buffalo and elephant I don't think so.
Bob

Bob,
You have to use an 87gr bullet to get to that "magical" 3000fps. I'm thinking a Swift A Frame, Woodleigh Protected Point, CEB Raptor, etc., for everything including leopard and lion (according to the Savage advertisement). I think a good 87gr solid like Barnes or Nosler would be required for head shots on scrub bulls or buffalo? Elephants would probably require a 100gr solid? Must be inherently more potent than a .220 Swift!
CEH

 

[Dr Ray]

i understand its a hot topic primarily because the 220 swift was the rifle that sparked "use enough gun." however have also read and heard accounts of hunters and gun writers saying that the 220 swift is a faster killer on game than cartridges like the 7x57 mouser and 30-06. curious what people think on this?

A fast 22 caliber on game say deer is not what I’d use.
The 22 bullet might blow up or simply not penetrate deep enough for a humane kill.
I would never consider using such. Use a medium caliber or bigger to suit the game.
It’s not ethical to wound and have the poor animal suffer a lingering and painful death.

 

[gbflyer]

A fast 22 caliber on game say deer is not what I’d use.
The 22 bullet might blow up or simply not penetrate deep enough for a humane kill.
I would never consider using such. Use a medium caliber or bigger to suit the game.
It’s not ethical to wound and have the poor animal suffer a lingering and painful death.

As opposed to the gutshot animal with the .300 magnum that recoiled too much for the novice shooter to stay on the crease?

 

[geoff rath]

As opposed to the gutshot animal with the .300 magnum that recoiled too much for the novice shooter to stay on the crease?

Old rule: match the bullet to the game. End of story.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob,
You have to use an 87gr bullet to get to that "magical" 3000fps. I'm thinking a Swift A Frame, Woodleigh Protected Point, CEB Raptor, etc., for everything including leopard and lion (according to the Savage advertisement). I think a good 87gr solid like Barnes or Nosler would be required for head shots on scrub bulls or buffalo? Elephants would probably require a 100gr solid? Must be inherently more potent than a .220 Swift!
CEH

@CoElkHunter
You are a Muppet mare Woodleigh don't make 25 cal projectiles. As you after penetration on the bigger stuff just go the 115gn tsx are the banded solid.
Best of luck with your buffalo, hope your life insurance is paid up.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Old rule: match the bullet to the game. End of story.

@geoff rath
What about matching the caliber to the shooter. I would prefer to hunt with someone who is comfortable with their 6.5 the give them a 30 cal they are afraid of.
Bob

 

[geoff rath]

@geoff rath
What about matching the caliber to the shooter. I would prefer to hunt with someone who is comfortable with their 6.5 the give them a 30 cal they are afraid of.
Bob

Yup; Three prime factors in ethical hunting: suitable caliber, bullet, and placement.

 

[Dr Ray]

@geoff rath
What about matching the caliber to the shooter. I would prefer to hunt with someone who is comfortable with their 6.5 the give them a 30 cal they are afraid of.
Bob

A mighty lot of difference between 6.5 mm compared to high velocity 22 caliber

 

[Challer]

Even if you could, why? There are too many much more effective choices. I wouldn’t hunt buff with a slingshot but I’m sure someone has done it.

 

[Forrest Halley]

As I stated earlier I wont be posting further in this ridiculous thread. I only did so to address the energy comparisons which I did in the previous post to hopefully expose the flaws in that theory to the uninitiated. Yes SOME big game can be hunted ethically with a fast .224 caliber rifle round provided proper bullet selection and shot selection 2 crucial points to its successful use on such game. Still that does not mean it is the ideal cartridge for any big game animals even the lighter ones.
And one more way to explain just how bad it can be to look at energy figures out of context would be these admittedly extreme examples, a strong athletic man could likely slap someone upside the head with a force of around 200 hundred foot pounds of energy which is roughly the equivalent energy of a 38 special snub nose at point blank range however the damage actually inflicted between these two is not even close!!! And some of the hardest punchers have been estimated to generate in the 800-1000 ft lb area with their gloved fist similar energy to a point blank 44 magnum! Now while I wouldn't want to get punched in the face by one of them I expect I could survive it. As for the 44 magnum not so much......

And yet here you are... This time equating things with boxing gloves? Perhaps we should all get really angry and run up to the game with 12 oz gloves for small game, MMA gloves for medium game, and deerskin gloves for big game? Personally I really enjoyed your .28 Nosler safari idea though... Up next the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch...

I agree with using a .220 Swift for hunting many/most big game animals is absurd! This is what I would use, especially in Africa, if I could find one:

View attachment 461163

Anyone not laughing at this idea isn't reading about the African Hunting so much. I believe this was tried and it ended badly. They got away with it, but shot a whole lot of bullets.