The Cannon Myth: Why I'd Rather Hit Than Bruise

Well, hell. Guess I’m gonna have to learn to shoot a damn pistol. Gotta fit in.

I gotta Walker Colt and an 1871 Open Top. Think I’ll start there. :cool:
 
Here are some pics taken from video of a reload while moving. This is my first training session with an Army trainer. ( I personally believe the best trainers are Green Berets) and I’m a Navy guy :cool: John was a Ranger, Green Beret then was Delta during the GWOT
View attachment 800911
You can see the mag drop


View attachment 800912Here you can see he corrects my pistol position as being too far away from my face.


View attachment 800914The circle and dot is wear he moved my reload to. It’s much faster closer to the body.
Excellent points. This is also the way we were drilled when I was in “gunslingers” school (MCSF Bn.) Atlantic in Norfolk.
 
Do you carry inside your house?
If I am dressed I carry. A habit I have had since I was 19.
When you have had death threats from actual murders it makes a difference on how you carry.
And being shot with some one braking into your house also makes a difference.
 
The circle and dot is wear he moved my reload to. It’s much faster closer to the body.
Yep. Here is a frame from the video above. One change I made since then was not to lower the gun as much so I could get back on target faster. Doesn't make much difference if one is running in between, but makes a difference when one is stationary (e.g. qualifiers).

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If I am dressed I carry. A habit I have had since I was 19.
When you have had death threats from actual murders it makes a difference on how you carry.
And being shot with some one braking into your house also makes a difference.
Yikes!

Hell, I’m doing good to put on a pair of pants at my house

What a sheltered life I lead. :cool:
 
Yikes!

Hell, I’m doing good to put on a pair of pants at my house

What a sheltered life I lead. :cool:
The surprising thing is when I got shot as a teen I was 8 miles form the biggest town around down a 1 1/2 mile dirt road and then down a 1/4 mile dirt driveway.
The house I was in up until then never had door locks on it

Why I said the bad guy travels.
 
I love the 10 mm, and I agree with your assessment re. barrel length. I put a Lone Wolf 6" barrel on my Glock 20. This is my open carry outdoors pistol. Incredibly versatile with typical ammo, deadly on deer-size game, and bear stopper with 200 gr hard cast Underwood. Oh, minor detail: and 15+1 rounds on board...
Thanks for the handgun bio and photos; with a battery of Glocks and 1911s you seem pretty well squared away, Bravo Zulu.
The 6" G20 barrel is a great mod for your outdoors duty pistol; it reminds me to order one myself.

When I first started attending G*unsite in the early 90s, Glocks were quite new, and so was the .40. There was a lot of sneering at both, but I shot very well which helped tone down the rhetoric a bit. As much as I like the 1911A1, I don't think a 40oz 8rd .45ACP is still the epitome of handgun development. I own some I like a lot, but the 1911 is rarely my EDC except when I hang out with Cooperites.

I also have a .32ACP backup, as they are so unobtrusive. Your excellent Seecamp is a collector's item now, so others may have to resort to a Kel-Tec. A hot .32 load is not to be sneered at, and could be successfully used to fight your way back to a larger handgun, or an exit.

I’m shocked more beginners and instructors don’t use the conversion kits
Train with the same pistol but much cheaper
Good point. I've .22LR kits for Glock and 1911, and use them with students who seem to need a gentler ramping up to centerfire. That's not too often, but enough to justify owning them.


Well, I think it would add more than half a second for sure. When visualizing the course of fire one tries to do mag change on the move to reduce dead time but not always possible. So, we practice it a lot, the video below is one I had from a while back. Since then I have optimized it to cut down a couple of tenths of second.
Yes, skipping the Tap/Tug step and using the slide lock as a release will save you a bit of time, but it forsakes the insurance of seated mag and a more reliable chambering (racking the slide with the added spring energy vs. merely letting it go from lock).

The USPSA et al could have made such sound tactics de rigueur in their runs, and shooters would thus not be practicing reloading mistakes.

I.e., to further comment on the God of Speed, why waste time doing press-checks when many handguns now have some sort of loaded chamber indicators?

BTW, this is how fast the pros do it.
Compensated long barrel with red dot, huge mag well, race mag pouches, etc.
This has little to do with tactical shooting, and I'm just not fascinated by such masturbatory performance art.
It impresses me about as much as hot-shit video gaming.

Most forms of competition morph into different versions of the original purpose.

Playing Polo horseback in Persia and the orient was originally a way for their Calvary to practice combat.

No one would argue that polo and real combat horseback are still 100% alike.
True, as far as it goes.

I maintain that it is risky to burn in 90%+ of one's practice on unrealistic gun gaming, and then expect to perform as well (well, not fast) on the street with concealed EDC.

I practice only with my EDC rig, and thus I've no competing muscle memory with race guns.
No skipping tactical steps, and no practicing mistakes.
This is plenty fast enough to prevail against a random lethal assailant, which is my goal.
I sometimes compete against other purely tactical guys with genuine duty equipment, and that's fun.

The circle and dot is wear he moved my reload to. It’s much faster closer to the body.
The rationale behind that is to shorten the distance travel of the loading hand.
However, the shooter must again "punch out" to firing isometrics, which takes a bit of time.
Thus, perhaps it's "a wash" in time, IDK. Whatever works better for you is your technique.

An empty reload or failure-to-fire drill can be accomplished fast enough while still standing in the middle of a fight.

A double-feed malfunction clearance (Look-Lock-Drop, Rack-Rack-Rack, Tap/Tug-Rack-Bang) I have my students practice seeking cover or at least dropping to squat to reduce their target profile while being out of action for those 3+ seconds.
 
Dude, your previous post was a joke about hip replacement hardware.
At least I'm still writing about guns, lol.
Fair enough, I'll stick to guns. Do you shoot your 32 ACP because of it's laser like precision or is the recoil of the 45 too much to shoot accurately. Lol
 
The right question...

I do not want to come across as rude, and I am really not, but you are not asking the right question, and your two options are not mutually exclusive, unless the entire thread is click bait, in which case I have zero interest...

The real question is not what do you choose between -- I am going to make it short -- killing or stopping? recoil or accuracy? The real question on DG is: "what is the biggest gun you can shoot reliably?"

Because to those who shoot the .458 well, (they have generally learned proper shooting form; proper recoil control; proper practice; and proper DG rifle weight), a well-handled .458, even Lott, heavy recoil is not "punishing", and it can absolutely place shots "laser-like"...

So, again, what is the biggest gun you can shoot reliably; where is your personal recoil control threshold? And I could add: what do you practice with? and how often? If you are comfortable at .375 level, shoot a .375 on DG. If you are comfortable at .458 level, shoot a .458 on DG.

View attachment 797028
.458 Lott 500 gr 100 yard group (from a Blaser R8) standing from the sticks (bench groups serve no purpose past sighting, there are darn few benches in the jesse).
"Laser-like" enough for me around 1 MOA, at least the same killing power, and certainly a whole lot more stopping power than a .375.
Achieved through proper rifle weight, learning recoil control, and years of practice.



PS: do not assume that every hunter or PH of fame was/is comfortable with the big calibers, or could/can afford one. I know a number of today's PHs would cannot afford to shoot anything bigger than a CZ .375, and I know a few honest enough to say that they can't shoot the .458 or even the .416. Guess what, all of the above "choose" the .375 ;)

PS 2: most folks who can shoot well the .40+ and .45+ started by learning to shoot the .375 well. There is a lot of wisdom in this reality... ;)
what scope?
 
Tanks, Those are some “Lucky” legs .

Lucky they don’t snap and poke you in the eye :LOL:
Man, it looks like a tib-fib fracture to me! Pretty impressive flexibility actually. :-). I couldn’t pull that off without a trip to an ortho! Kudos. Stay flexible—stay young.
 

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Yet again we agree violently. I have often argued that the .40+ are NOT stoppers, that the .458 Win is marginal, even with modern loads, and that the Lott 500 gr is where things start. No doubt the .500 570 gr is yet better (y)

And as to making that first shot which solves everything without this debate, ever trickier, you are precisely pointing at the primary reason why I swapped my double .470 for my scoped R8 .458, the NE and the Lott being essentially ballistic performance twins.

As to Buff shot on the ground that suddenly stand up, I will tell you that I have seen it myself, and I would also point to YouTube where too numerous to count videos show it, but let us remain between Gentlemen whose word we take, as I am sure you have seen in Africa things I have not yet, and in this case I have seen something you have not yet. It will come :)

Although I like you :love::E Rofl: I do not like your broad sword vs rapier analogy :sick::E Rofl:

Let me explain. The power-wielding of a broad sword is eons away from the fencing of a rapier. I will make my own call to the arts, presenting as evidence the fight between Rob Roy MacGregor and Archibald Cunningham.

When you make the broad sword vs rapier argument it infers that one deploys a .458 or the .500 fundamentally differently from a .375. Limiting my test sample to just one, I am willing to take a serious wager than you swing your .470 or .500 just as well and fundamentally the same way as you swing your .375. Both actually are rapiers :cool:

If you want to extend the test sample to two, I will volunteer being chronometered and the target scores being compared whether I have the .375 or the .458 pipe bolted on the R8. Both actually are rapiers :cool:

Frederick Courteney Selous' black powder 4 bore may have been the broad sword.

Talking about swinging the .470, I think that a better analogy would be between a 20 gauge quail gun and a 12 gauge duck gun. One is very much more powerful than the other, and considerably heavier, but those are fundamentally the same type of weapons wielded the same way.

As to leaving the big guns home when you go to Africa, I seem to remember that it had very much to do with you hating to schlep heavy guns in the bush, and loving the simplicity of a one-rifle safari, both arguments pointing squarely to a .375 ;) --- which I agree will kill anything.
I MUST STOP RIGHT HERE, NO.1 I have to get up early and go chukar hunting tomorrow , those days are always long. No,2 I can bare it no longer, Ive thrown my .375 in the trash 6 times tonite, only to retrieve it back out on the next post, I blame REDLEG for purchasing such a caliber as he is an ardent defender of such a lethal weapon and I do blame him for such an influence, my gosh he even resorts to prose. If I am ever trampled and gored to death by a buff, well the debate is decided in the buffs favor.If no then I , I am the victor and have chosen well.
Im carrying a 12 ga for chukar tomorrow and my buddies are using 20"s, so the debate goes on.
 

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