The Cannon Myth: Why I'd Rather Hit Than Bruise

I think that one should shoot the rifle they shoot the most accurately. If you can’t hit what you’re aiming at then it doesn’t matter what you are shooting at it with. I think it applies to every situation in hunting. It is a common practice across the hunting world that bigger is better. How many people hunt ducks and geese with 3 1/2” in magnum loads when all it does is beat the ever loving snot out of them? How many folks buy the latest 300 PRC or 7mm PRC “thousand yard” rifle and have never attempted to shoot a a target more than 200 yards away and start slinging lead at elk at 800 yards? Why, because they think that’s what is required because the industry pushes it. A large bore rifle is a great tool for Dangerous game, if you can shoot it well. If you can’t then it doesn’t matter what you shoot. I think alot of people are under misconceptions about what is “needed” for Dangerous game because of books, shows, and the internet. Did Bell kill elephants with a .275 Rigby? He did but by all accounts he was an exceptional marksman with ice in his veins.

SStomcat said:

I'm sure it was the man behind the gun that played a big role in putting the charge down. Now if you placed the exact shot using a say 300 grns solid, do you think it would have made any difference?
I want to genuinely understand your perspective as I do know you are very experienced in this field.

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The shot knocked it down, but did not kill it. It was down but breathing before I finished it. Don’t know if a rat caliber would have produced the same result. BTW, this was a night hunt.

Houston Bill said:

My first "big bore" was a 375 RUM but mine weighs a bit over 10 lbs with the scope. I also use the muzzle break when sighting in and practicing so I was able to learn to shoot it accurately and avoid flinching. It was the rifle I took on my first aAfrican safari nearly 25 years ago. I believe this early indoctrination to "significant recoil" helped me later master shooting my doubles very accurately.

I am also fanatical about practicing with my rifles from field shooting positions with both my large bolt actions (338 win and 375 RUM) and my doubles (450/400, 470 and 500 NE)

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I like the 375 RUM round. In hindsight, back then, I should have gotten the Remington Custom Shop 700 ABG model, it would have been 3-4 lbs heavier and much more manageable to shoot. I think a 375 RUM should be at least a 10-11 lb rifle total weight.

Tanks said:

The shot knocked it down, but did not kill it. It was down but breathing before I finished it. Don’t know if a rat caliber would have produced the same result. BTW, this was a night hunt.

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Depending on the angle that may have hit the brain. Do you think of a 375 as rat calibre or say that in jest

Opinion.
Like many have said. As a responsible hunter and client to the PH. Shoot a caliber that you are most comfortable with. If it’s a 375 that’s fine. First shot is your responsibility and should be accurate.
Don’t try and pack and shoot a caliber you can’t handle.
Leave the stopping caliber to the PH if it should happen. Me personally, I use CZ 458 Lott. I am comfortable with it and taken many animals with it. I had a VC 500 NE. Sold it because I am more comfortable and accurate with the Lott

SStomcat said:

Depending on the angle that may have hit the brain. Do you think of a 375 as rat calibre or say that in jest

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If it had hit the brain I doubt it would still be breathing. I think with a solid round .375 is a perfect rifle for the Tiny 10.
I think @michael458 would agree. He has shot tens of thousands of rounds through big bores under laboratory conditions.

Mark Biggerstaff said:

Opinion.
Like many have said. As a responsible hunter and client to the PH. Shoot a caliber that you are most comfortable with. If it’s a 375 that’s fine. First shot is your responsibility and should be accurate.
Don’t try and pack and shoot a caliber you can’t handle.
Leave the stopping caliber to the PH if it should happen. Me personally, I use CZ 458 Lott. I am comfortable with it and taken many animals with it. I had a VC 500 NE. Sold it because I am more comfortable and accurate with the Lott

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Mark - words of wisdom, I'm aware of your rifles, we have talked about them. Nothing better than having a large caliber, that you shoot and handle perfectly.

Tanks said:

If it had hit the brain I doubt it would still be breathing. I think with a solid round .375 is a perfect rifle for the Tiny 10.

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A .375 with a solid for the Tiny Ten? Nothing quite says subtle and proportionate like bringing a buffalo rifle to something that weighs less than the rifle itself.

The taxidermist will thank you for using the 375 solids on your tiny ten. Less damage than small caliber expanding bullets.

I keep a few solids with me for my 338 win mag for any little critters I might shoot and don't want to have to do a DNA test to identify.

I think another thing to look at is what the vast majority of PH’s carry as “stopping rifles” lots of .458 Win and .458 Lott rifles. I would say that alot of that has to do with cost of the rifles and availability of the ammunition. Is it the best round or is it just what is available and affordable. (I am a fan of the.458 Win, but I think there are certainly other better cartridges it just suits my needs and is a available most places where a cartridge like that are used) Same Reason I shoot a 7mm Rem Mag, is it the best? Not necessarily but it is more than adequate and it is available in every backwater gun shop and gas station in North America.

Mark458 said:

The taxidermist will thank you for using the 375 solids on your tiny ten. Less damage than small caliber expanding bullets.

I keep a few solids with me for my 338 win mag for any little critters I might shoot and don't want to have to do a DNA test to identify.

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You don’t need a 375 for that.

SStomcat said:

Say you don’t get the brain shot, which is certainly possible when things go wrong. In that situation, no shot from any caliber is going to prove fatal if it isn’t placed properly.

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Just like with the defense 22
A chest shot with a 357 vs the 22 will do more damage and give you a better chance.

I remember what mr. J cooper something close to this I read it in the 80s —— said at the back of the guns and ammo magazine
No one is saying a 30-06 to a buffalo hart want kill the buff. But how many seconds is it going to be on its feet compared to a proper caliber? And what damage is it going to do in the extra seconds

SStomcat said:

You don’t need a 375 for that.

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Well then I'll take my 416 instead. Dang you're hard to please.

Mark458 said:

Well then I'll take my 416 instead. Dang you're hard to please.

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You’ll use whatever you think is best no need to lose sleep trying to please me. I promise I’ll survive your caliber choice.
The Pelican may have a paradigm shift though.

Tdsmith517 said:

I think another thing to look at is what the vast majority of PH’s carry as “stopping rifles” lots of .458 Win and .458 Lott rifles. I would say that alot of that has to do with cost of the rifles and availability of the ammunition. Is it the best round or is it just what is available and affordable. (I am a fan of the.458 Win, but I think there are certainly other better cartridges it just suits my needs and is a available most places where a cartridge like that are used) Same Reason I shoot a 7mm Rem Mag, is it the best? Not necessarily but it is more than adequate and it is available in every backwater gun shop and gas station in North America.

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Agreed. Availability and price plays a big part in what is being used. I have seen most PH carry a bolt in various calibres, very few with doubles and then only marginal with super big bores 577 and above.

Well, since many people carry one rifle for a safari, such as a 375 the only proper way to collect the small animals is with a solid. A person could bring 3 or 4 rifles and have the perfect caliber for every opportunity but that is impossible

Flbt said:

No one is saying a 30-06 to a buffalo hart want kill the buff. But how many seconds is it going to be on its feet compared to a proper caliber? And what damage is it going to do in the extra seconds

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My PH in Namibia a couple of weeks back mentioned how the buffalo dropped right away after being shot. He specifically stated that the .500 NE had slammed him where it would still have taken off for a bit if I was using a .375.

SStomcat said:

Agreed. Availability and price plays a big part in what is being used. I have seen most PH carry a bolt in various calibres, very few with doubles and then only marginal with super big bores 577 and above.

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I know Mark Sullivan likes big guns, but it seems like most other PH’s carry 470 and 500 NE’s

For sure, "bring enough gun"
But let us add "do not bring more gun than you can shoot well"
And "bring the gun you like" (PS as long as it is legal)

1- The issue with the argument "just make sure your first shot counts" -- which is a solid recommendation -- is that often enough the first shot actually does kill clinically, but the DG is still ambulatory enough to do damage. There is so much evidence of DG charging with a perforated heart and collapsed lungs that I do not expect this point to be challenged.

And occasionally a first shot hits a branch; or the animal moves as the sear breaks; etc. etc. or God forbid !!! the shooting is not perfect

So, doing one's best to not cause of wounded DG situation is the right approach, one I practice myself, but the outcomes remains an act of faith.


2- The issue with the argument "any caliber will brain an Ele or Buff and this will stop the charge" is that a Ele or Buff brain is a lot smaller a target and a lot more difficult to hit on a charging bull than a full head.

There is ton of documentary evidence, and entire books were written by folks who killed more DG than any of us will ever encounter, with more calibers than any of us will ever own (e.g. Taylor) that a larger "stopper" caliber (.45+) can damage or stun a charging DG enough to buy a few seconds for a more final shot. I also do not expect this point to be challenged.


3- So, in the end, the question is not whether one trades a "cannon bruise" for a "laser-like hit" with a .375 because this is a false dichotomy: a .458 in the right hands is just as accurate as a .375. The question comes back, as previously discussed, to personal abilities, personal beliefs, and personal choice.

Some believe they will shoot well enough that they will never wound; some prefer a one-rifle safari approach; some dislike heavy recoil; some dislike carrying heavy guns; etc. etc. and on the other end, some are not bothered by the weight and recoil of a stopper caliber, and want to be best equipped should things get dicey.

As long as the choice is legal, and I will add, ethical in respect to the animal and the potential danger it causes to PH & trackers, this is a personal choice.

Certainly, the wisdom has long been established (the "bottom lines" I was proposing earlier):
-- make the first shot count;
-- shoot a caliber you can reliably shoot;
-- do not confuse killing and stopping;
-- a client's job & gun are different from a PH's job & gun;
-- etc.

And the wisdom has been captured in legal requirements (minimum calibers), as well as famous quotes, "it is the dead ones that kill you"; "bring enough gun"; etc.


4 - The two root causes, I guess, of the discussion we are having, and that has been had many, many times before us today, is that:

• "a man's got to know his limitations" is generally and sadly not included with "bring enough gun", and that translates to "do not bring more gun than you can shoot well"
• "there is more than one way to skin a cat"

I am on the side of "shoot well", "first shot count", "do your best not to wound" etc. and if indeed you cannot shoot a .458 or .416, then you must shoot a .375. And even if you can shoot a "cannon" well, by all means, bring a .375 if you prefer. It is no peashooter, and it is legal and ethical.

I personally think that IF YOU CAN shoot a 40+ or 45+ caliber well on DG you have an edge on TIA, and both historic and current PHs choices place me in a comfortable vast majority. Darn close to unanimity, actually. I respect this entourage

But IF YOU CANNOT shoot a 40+ or 45+ caliber well on DG, like my wife for example, it does not make you a lesser hunter or human being, and going down to a .375 is not a choice or a trade, it is an absolute necessity. Or, as in her case, even going down to a 9.3x62 is the right decision.

And if you can shoot a 40+ or 45+ caliber well on DG but you PREFER a .375, by all means have it your way, it does not bother me in the slightest, and it certainly does not irritate me, but do not distort the reality that a stopping rifle is a not myth, or that it can be shot accurately

Gomer said:

This is where I see vastly differing philosophies. In the US, we only have a few animals that fight back. None of them are particularly tough skinned and succumb fairly easy. Hence, the 223 on moose crowd. They lament about recoil and swear there is no way anyone can shoot a 30-06 accurately because of fierce unmitigated recoil.

But when you talk to guys who travel and hunt animals such as cape buffalo, hippo, elephant, etc., they seem to like a lot more oomph. Recoil is a fact of life and they want to be able to get the job done. I have always leaned into the oomph crowd.

But there has to be a balance. You can’t hit well if you don’t shoot well. You won’t shoot well if you don’t practice. Bullet technology can only make up for so much, especially if you have to use solids.

I found out at an early age that I couldn’t be a fighter pilot. I still like airplane movies and aviation. Not enough to make a pair of wings and jump off a cliff just to say I flew. If you can’t, you shouldn’t.

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If you can't shoot a 30-06 because of the recoil, well......go......collect stamps or something. I being nice....