Which 6.5 Creed load for sable sized PG

sgt_zim said:

“Even with those, I'd limit my shots to no more than 150 yards on bigger/tougher animals like waterbuck, sable, or roan. And if I could sneak in to 100, I would”

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What is your reason for this? You would shoot an impala at 200 yards but not a sable at 200 yards? There is no difference in terminal performance? That just doesn’t make much sense to me.

dchum said:

What is your reason for this? You would shoot an impala at 200 yards but not a sable at 200 yards? There is no difference in terminal performance? That just doesn’t make much sense to me.

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@dchum
Agree no difference in terminal performance but a big difference in the size of the game.
One is 100# or less the other 500# plus.
Bob

I use 140gr S&B spire points (this is a cheap cup and core bullet) for warthogs on crop fields, with no issues out of the 6.5CM. Shots mostly under 300m. Also taken several large kudu bulls without issue. Understanding bullet construction and expected performance is useful.
In my opinion CM is an excellent choice for new shooters. I would take the advice from the PH and use monolithic bullets, will ensure good penetration for qautering too and away shots.
Most of SA is well above sea level, the thin air allow bullets to maintain good speed so impact energy at typical shot distances will be sufficient.

Just have your PH acquire a suppressor.....and raise your calibre.....

Matt Corbell said:

I will be taking my kids to SA for PG in 2027. The largest animal hunted will be Sable & Waterbuck. They have taken several Whitetail in TX with the 143 ELDX out of the 6.5 CM. I’m wanting a tougher bullet for the safari. I’m thinking the 120 CX, 130 Sirocco II, or the 140 Nosler Partition. Anyone have experience with any of these bullets out of the 6.5 Creed? Or something different that worked well?

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"Which 6.5 Creed load for sable sized PG?" Preferably none, but at least a tough 140 gr, and better yet 150 gr, at close range if a kid is doing the shooting.

dchum said:

What is your reason for this? You would shoot an impala at 200 yards but not a sable at 200 yards? There is no difference in terminal performance? That just doesn’t make much sense to me.

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Because a sable is a tough 600 lbs. and an Impala is a soft 150 lbs.

It takes a whole lot more terminal effect (characterize it as kinetic energy, momentum, frontal area, killing power, or whatever you care) to kill a Sable, than it takes to kill an Impala, and the 6.5 Creed with light 120 or 130 gr bullets simply does not carry it, especially at the ranges it tends to be used at by folks foolishly confusing punching paper and killing reliably and humanely large animals.

Just like, yes, I know, a .243 can kill an elk, and so can a .22 LR kill a buffalo (there is reliable recorded historical evidence of it) but common sense dictates that the 6.5 Creed is better kept to Impala, as the .243 is better kept to deer, and the .22 LR to rabbit.

And, yes, I know, any light 6.5 or .243 light pill that slips between two ribs will reach and fold both lungs, but real life tends to be that the inter-rib areas are separated by ribs...

Africa hills and Arizona mountains are getting littered with carcasses of Kudu, Wildebeest, or Elk shot at ridiculous distances with 6.5 Creed by folks who do not seem to realize that just because punching a hole in paper requires very exactly zero terminal energy, it is not the same for tough game...

I understand the need for light recoil for kids, but that may mean that kids may have to wait until the can handle proper calibers to take large game...

dchum said:

What is your reason for this? You would shoot an impala at 200 yards but not a sable at 200 yards? There is no difference in terminal performance? That just doesn’t make much sense to me.

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An impala is what? About 12" through the chest? And a sable? A bit over 2 feet would be my guess.

It doesn't take a lot of gas to make an exit wound on an impala or blesbok.

If taking my 6.5 CM, I’d use whatever shot the best of the following…. 140 Partition, A-Frame, or Accubond, 127 LRX, or 120 CX. Any of those should work well if placed in the right spot.

I find these kind of posts very annoying - I've bit my tongue 3 or 4 times now and everytime, this one keeps coming back ... so here goes.

I'm a firm believer in "use enough gun". To me that means leaving your 6.5's at home as soon as anything bigger than Impala enters the conversation. Sable is a long ways from a Texas Whitetail. Oh yah - it might/can get the job done on a Sable, in good conditions. But as we all know - sometimes in hunting, anything that can go - does go wrong. Times like that - I like to be carrying a bigger stick. My time and money are two things I don't like to gamble with on Safari. A long follow up, can chew up a lot of hunting time and a spec of blood or two eating up a trophy fee, would be super painful.

About now, you're all getting excited and saying - but it's all about the kids. I feel a bit qualified to chirp in here too. I mentored 3 of my own, youthful female hunters and a handful of neighbor kids. My kids went through exactly the same scenario. Started them with a 7mm-08. Low recoil - youth rifle - even started with reduced loads, and then worked up. In my opinion - the 7-08 is quite a step up from the creedmore. When the time came to head to Africa, knew we could step up to 160 or even 175grain bullets. We all know how much the 7X57 guys rant about their heavy for calibre bullets and their ability to take African game. The 7-08, can't tell me would be any different.

So back to my kids - safari times were approaching. I had it stuck in my head, "Oh those sensitive little girls" too bad they can't shoot a bigger gun but never really tried it. Then the year before we headed to Africa, my oldest drew a hard to draw tag for Elk in a big bull area. I wanted her to have a bigger stick - so we tried the 30-06. Yu know what - she loved it. The bigger frame, heavier gun, just worked for her. She carried a .300 Win Mag in Africa, one shot per animal - Gemsbok and wildebeest. Baby sister, who is even slighter - same scenario. Carried a .300 Win (premium 180 gr bullets) for plains game including kudu. Took a very impressive bull, with a less than desirable shot presentation (frontal angling), that I wouldn't have allowed her take with less rifle (especially a Creedmore or similar) It was probably that shot or nothing - happened to be tuff Kudu hunting on that trip - long story.

My third daughter - definitely a bit softer on the recoil. But with a lot of shooting and practice - she did work her way up to a 30-06, in a rifle that fit her very well. She actually embraced the challenge and enjoyed it - she did fine in Africa.

Not saying it'll work for your kids. But if yu have time (I think it would be well spent) Do some experimenting, practicing and see if yu can't up the anti a few calibres and add 30 , 40 or more grains to your bullets. Can be a lot of fun and a learning experience for every one.

Enjoy the African experience, and the time with your kids - cause the little buggers grow up all tooo quick

Miletic said:

Do you try .243 win? I mostly used 243 in Europe. (95gr SST for roe deer,muflon,goats,dama dama,fox,wolf,jackal and Eld-x 90gr,AccuBond 90 and Norma Oryx 100gr for hogs). Only red stags i dont shoot wit him. I'm interested in how it would working on larger antelopes and if it would lag behind the 6.5?
Thanks

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.243 Works great!

Matt Corbell said:

The limit is what cartridge my 10 year old can shoot well. I will have my 375.

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That’s all they will need then. If the PH has concern, and my guess is they won’t, then you can make a different plan. Otherwise, practice with your 10 year old and enjoy the process!

Kevin375 said:

I have never shot a sable with my 6.5 Creedmoor, but I killed a good number of waterbucks with this controversial caliber.

A big waterbuck bull is a tough animal and a premium bullet is definitely more suitable than a classic cup and core bullet.
Last year, I shot a big bull in South Africa with an ELD-X 143 gr. He was full broadside and I hit him in the shoulder.
Thanks to the slope, the animal ran 200 meters, jumped above a cattle fence and died in a thicket. With such a perfect shot, the animal was able to cover a good distance but I'm not really surprised because even with bigger calibers, like the .338 Lapua magnum and the .458 Lott, I saw how they can soak up these big bullets before going down.
When we carved it, I noticed the bullet didn't even reached the opposite shoulder and blew up in the vitals.
This ELD-X works well on kudus and nyalas, as well as smaller games, but it is too soft for being reliable on heavier games.
I had the oppotunity to shoot another big bull during this trip and this time, I switched the ELD-X against a TTSX 120 gr. It did a good job and went trough. The animal didn't go far and stopped quickly. I finished it off with another bullet just behind the ear.



View attachment 739126View attachment 739127
In the past, I had a good success on waterbucks with Swift Scirocco 130 gr, Barnes TTSX 120 gr and also the good old Hornady Interlock 160 gr.
The last bullet is not a bonded core, but it keeps a good weight retention and it provides a deeper penetration than the ELD-X. For sure, it's quite weird to see it loaded on a 6.5 Creedmoor case, but at 2500 f/s, it remains a good option for shots at short and medium ranges.

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Nice Waterbucks!

Elkeater said:

Well no experience with sable but my kids used a 6.5 creedmoor in Africa. Warthog, blesbok, impala, all fell. Watched my brother use the same gun to drop a gemsbok in its tracks. It was the outfitters gun and I’m pretty sure it was loaded with some sort of 140gr softpoint. No tracking was required. My buddy killed a really nice 330 class bull elk from 350 yards this year with his 6.5 creed shooting a 124gr hammer bullet. I think if you use a good monolithic bullet like the hammers or Barnes or Hornady Cx you should be good to go. Shot placement seems to be the best indicator of whether you will be tracking or not. Better a 127gr Barnes through the lungs than a 200gr .300 win mag round through the guts.

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Enough can’t be said about practice and shot placement. I appreciate firsthand knowledge and experience. It tells the real story…

I am a big believer in the 127LRX. I have killed a lot of deer and pigs with it. The pigs definitely prove how tough and deep penetrating that bullet is. Worked great on Axis as well with one of my daughters when she was in high school.

If you ever want to try some through one of your rifles let me know. I spend a lot of time between Arlington and Athens/Tyler.

Have fun with your kids!

My last recipe for the 6.5 Creedmoor.


Norma Bondstrike 143 gr pushed with Vihtavuori N160 at ~ 2700 f/s.
Half MOA at 100 meters with my Blaser R8.

I'm curious to see how they perform on games and their weight retention if we recover some bullets.

Kevin375 said:

My last recipe for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
View attachment 747651
View attachment 747652
Norma Bondstrike 143 gr pushed with Vihtavuori N160 at ~ 2700 f/s.
Half MOA at 100 meters with my Blaser R8.

I'm curious to see how they perform on games and their weight retention if we recover some bullets.

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Perfect!
Barrel is 60cm?
Do you have enough space in case for N160?

NDWoods said:

I am a big believer in the 127LRX. I have killed a lot of deer and pigs with it. The pigs definitely prove how tough and deep penetrating that bullet is. Worked great on Axis as well with one of my daughters when she was in high school.

If you ever want to try some through one of your rifles let me know. I spend a lot of time between Arlington and Athens/Tyler.

Have fun with your kids!

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Thanks for the offer! I live just south of Tyler.

One Day... said:

"Which 6.5 Creed load for sable sized PG?" Preferably none, but at least a tough 140 gr, and better yet 150 gr, at close range if a kid is doing the shooting.



Because a sable is a tough 600 lbs. and an Impala is a soft 150 lbs.

It takes a whole lot more terminal effect (characterize it as kinetic energy, momentum, frontal area, killing power, or whatever you care) to kill a Sable, than it takes to kill an Impala, and the 6.5 Creed with light 120 or 130 gr bullets simply does not carry it, especially at the ranges it tends to be used at by folks foolishly confusing punching paper and killing reliably and humanely large animals.

Just like, yes, I know, a .243 can kill an elk, and so can a .22 LR kill a buffalo (there is reliable recorded historical evidence of it) but common sense dictates that the 6.5 Creed is better kept to Impala, as the .243 is better kept to deer, and the .22 LR to rabbit.

And, yes, I know, any light 6.5 or .243 light pill that slips between two ribs will reach and fold both lungs, but real life tends to be that the inter-rib areas are separated by ribs...

Africa hills and Arizona mountains are getting littered with carcasses of Kudu, Wildebeest, or Elk shot at ridiculous distances with 6.5 Creed by folks who do not seem to realize that just because punching a hole in paper requires very exactly zero terminal energy, it is not the same for tough game...

I understand the need for light recoil for kids, but that may mean that kids may have to wait until the can handle proper calibers to take large game...

Click to expand...

One Day... said:

"Which 6.5 Creed load for sable sized PG?" Preferably none, but at least a tough 140 gr, and better yet 150 gr, at close range if a kid is doing the shooting.



Because a sable is a tough 600 lbs. and an Impala is a soft 150 lbs.

It takes a whole lot more terminal effect (characterize it as kinetic energy, momentum, frontal area, killing power, or whatever you care) to kill a Sable, than it takes to kill an Impala, and the 6.5 Creed with light 120 or 130 gr bullets simply does not carry it, especially at the ranges it tends to be used at by folks foolishly confusing punching paper and killing reliably and humanely large animals.

Just like, yes, I know, a .243 can kill an elk, and so can a .22 LR kill a buffalo (there is reliable recorded historical evidence of it) but common sense dictates that the 6.5 Creed is better kept to Impala, as the .243 is better kept to deer, and the .22 LR to rabbit.

And, yes, I know, any light 6.5 or .243 light pill that slips between two ribs will reach and fold both lungs, but real life tends to be that the inter-rib areas are separated by ribs...

Africa hills and Arizona mountains are getting littered with carcasses of Kudu, Wildebeest, or Elk shot at ridiculous distances with 6.5 Creed by folks who do not seem to realize that just because punching a hole in paper requires very exactly zero terminal energy, it is not the same for tough game...

I understand the need for light recoil for kids, but that may mean that kids may have to wait until the can handle proper calibers to take large game...

Click to expand...

If you wound an animal in South Africa, you pay the full price. It discourage most from taking marginal shots.

Miletic said:

Perfect!
Barrel is 60cm?
Do you have enough space in case for N160?

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The real lenght is 56 cm for a Blaser barrel in standard calibers.
Yes, I do ! The N160 is perfect for 143 gr bullets and I have excellent results with this powder in my rifle.
Before, I had the opportunity to try the N555 that is called "THE" powder designed for the 6.5 Creedmoor. However, it didn't give me results as I expected, at least with the heaviest bullets.
I would say my results with 120 gr bullets (like Nosler Ballistic-Tip and Barnes TTSX) were good but with 143 gr bullets, to reach good velocities, you need to compress too much for my liking the powder. So, I'm using this powder for my .375 H&H magnum now. And with 300 gr bullets, it's fine.

I’m late to the party, but concur that a premium bullet at moderate ranges will do the job in the 6.5 CM. LRX, TTSX, A frame, Scirroco, Partition, Terminal Ascent…. My 11 year old took his first deer with a 6.5 CM and 127 gr LRX in November. It’s a great versatile bullet for the 6.5 CM if your rifle shoots it well. For whatever reason, his Tikka shoots the 127 gr LRX much better than the 120 gr TTSX factory load so that’s what we went with.

My 9 and 11 year old are going to Namibia with me in June. They want a gemsbok, blue wildebeest and a springbok. They will be using a camp gun, but have been practicing with a 6.5 CM.

As far as terminal effectiveness, animals die from exsanguination or central nervous system destruction. The various metrics - energy, SD, momentum, retained mass, TKO… are surrogates and help us predict how a bullet will behave, but I find there is too many variables to be able to easily predict how quickly an animal will lay down and die. I do favor using enough gun and the 8 animals I took on my first African safari in Namibia didn’t seem overwhelmed by a 208 gr LRX at 2850 out of my 300 PRC. However, I hear over and over again stories where a 6.5 CM with a controlled expansion bullet worked well. I cannot discount the experience of people who have taken hundreds of animals with these combinations.

A final point, is that the state of the animal seems to have a dramatic effect. An unaware animal may well drop at a lethal shot, while a suspicious, agitated, or rutting animal may take multiple ‘killing shots’.

Have a great safari!

Give them a 7mm-08 as a gift...