Which 6.5 Creed load for sable sized PG

[Schüler Jumbo]

The 6.5 Creedmoor is basically a ballistic twin to the famous 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. The “Swede” has been used successfully by Scandinavian hunters for European moose for well over 100 years. Outstanding accuracy, established ballistics and mild recoil makes the 6.5 CR a perfectly sensible choice for the OP’s safari.

 

[C.W. Richter]

And how does that tissue damage occur? F=MA plus ballistic construction (SD, metallurgy, or other ad-induced magic) causing a bit of shock and a wound channel. "This tissue isn't gonna damage itself!" The needmore certainly doesn't have frontal area going for it. The V component just came along with the E component of that graph. I beg to differ that the E (that drives the bullet into the tissues), caused by V, with the proper bullet (M, SD+construction) doesn't result in that damage! Lower SD dumps its E more quickly (a la varmint bullets, short/light/thin-skinned) and high SD keeps the love going. A monometal bullet can make up for some of that lesser SD, but below a certain V, in my experience, they're not top terminal performers in slower rigs, and certainly not on larger PG in Africa. I agree a high velocity ping pong ball isn't going to kill (No E, SD, M and too large a caliber). It needs to penetrate well, for starters. I agree that the chart means nothing to game animals, as they have no ability to understand (some humans included. Animalia Chordata Mammalia Primates Hominidae Homo Sapiens.) To each, their own, including real-world experience and its resultant knowledge.

 

[txtrout75218]

I'm really not sure why there is so much postering about the question on a 6.5 CM load. For a kid. This is getting beat to death.This is for his kid. Not him. He has a bigger rifle.

Are there better cartridges, yes. Is this an option for his kid, no.

His kid already hunts deer so he is used to hunting .The PH won't let the kid shoot too far, beyond his and the carriages ability. The terminal ballistics will be fine.at 100 yards or in. If it wasn't ok the PH wouldn't have agreed to the 6.5 CM for his kid to use.

It seems like either people can't read the OP's original question and statement. Or, they want to saddle a kid with a cartridge that will cause a flinch and thus a bad shot. The PH I hunt with has repeatedly said that kids and women do better than men since they the kid isn't trying to prove something with a magnum cartridge and they listen to the PH. Per Jakes,.(PH) Most men can't shoot for shit, as he says.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

Interesting history is the .256 Mannlicher was a mainstay in Karamojo Bell’s Uganda rifle battery accounting for elephant and harvesting camp meat. The .256 Mannlicher is also known as the 6.5x53mmR and is also basically a ballistic twin to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Interesting history is the .256 Mannlicher was a mainstay in Karamojo Bell’s Uganda rifle battery accounting for elephant and harvesting camp meat. The .256 Mannlicher is also known as the 6.5x53mmR and is also basically a ballistic twin to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Ballistics of the .256 Mannlicher were identical to those of the 6.5X54 Mannlicher Schoenauer if same powder, primer, projectile are used as the latter is simply a rimless version of the former.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I will be taking my kids to SA for PG in 2027. The largest animal hunted will be Sable & Waterbuck. They have taken several Whitetail in TX with the 143 ELDX out of the 6.5 CM. I’m wanting a tougher bullet for the safari. I’m thinking the 120 CX, 130 Sirocco II, or the 140 Nosler Partition. Anyone have experience with any of these bullets out of the 6.5 Creed? Or something different that worked well?

@Matt Corbell
Personally I feel the kikes if the 6.5 creede and the 6.5x 55 to light for the game mentioned.
But
If loaded with a good bullet it should get the job done.
Personally I would go for a 169 gn Woodleigh PPSP or round nose. Those long skin round nose bit the big lead tip should drive deep and expand beautifully. To me the round nose dumps a lot of energy quickly and you can certainly see a viable difference to the way game reacts compared to a pointy bullets. They just seem to hit harder and do massive damage. The Woodleigh is a bonded core projectile.
That would be my personal choice.
@Rick HOlbert used the 225gn Woodleigh rnsp out of his 358 win at a leisurely 2,500 fps and it dropped his sables arse on the ground and punched clear out the other side. He noticed the way they seem to get games attention.
Round nose may not be the flavour of the month but out to 250 yards they speak with much authority.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

6.5 Creedmoor falls in the same category as a 243. I applaud you for taking your kids to Africa but Sable and Waterbuck are not Texas Whitetails and agree that something bigger for Africa. I built a
6.5-308 Ackley Imp for my daughter when she was 8yo (total loaded, scoped wt. 5#) Restocked it when she was 13 and she killed many deer, antelope and 5 elk with it. A properly built 7mm-308 or 308 with
a good break or suppressor would be a much better choice IMHO!

@Surgeon1
Personally I don't think 20 grains bullet weight at the most and and .5-1.12mm is going to make that much difference but what do I know
6.5 - 160gn
7mm-175gn
308 (7.62mm) -180gn
All launched at 2,500fps their would be diddly squat difference in killing ability.
Put any of these in the heart Lung area and you have one dead critter.
Just my opinion
To me the 243 doesn't fall into any category apart from paper punching or tomatoes stakes.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As a PH, I offer clients, who do not bring their own rifles, a choice of 4 calibers, a 6.5 Creedmoor, a .30-06, a 9.3x62 and a .375 H&H for plains game hunting. The 6.5 CM and the .30-06 are the most popular. Both are supressed, which probably has something to do with it. If a client shoots the .30-06 as well as he does the 6.5, I recommend the .30-06, otherwise the 6.5 CM.
6.5mm rifles have been killing plainsgame in Africa for more than a century, the 6.5x54, 6.5x55 and 6.5x57 all used to be popular. The 6.5CM can do what those calibers did without any problems. Added to that bullet construction have greatly improved.
My two personal 6.5CM's have accounted for 959 head of game, including 30 black wildebeest, 66 blue wildebeest, 57 eland, 31 gemsbok, 29 red hartebeest, 3 sable, 25 waterbuck and 8 zebra.
If it did not kill cleanly and reliably, I would have stopped using it long ago, nobody benefits from tracking wounded game, least of all a PH.
Before I started using the 6.5CM, I used a 6.5x55 as my light rifle, that rifle, in my own hands and those of clients accounted for more than 1200 head of game, before the barrel gave up the ghost and I had it re-barreled to 9.3x62.
I do enjoy using different calibers and regularly use, apart from the 6.5CM, a 6mm CM, 7x57, .30-06, 9.3x62, .375 H&H and .416 rem mag. Arguing about calibers is great fun, but honestly if most hunters spent less time worrying about calibers and spent more time actually practising their shooting skills there would be a lot fewer wounded animals.

@ThinusS
So you haven't shot much game with the 6.5 to be knowledge then
Ha Ha ha Ha ha ha Ha Ha.
It's an old calibre with a new dress. If the 6.5 has worked for 100+ years no reason it still won't. Just use it within its limits.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Matt Corbell another thing is practice! Like lots of practice. And then practice some more. My kids probably shot 2000 rounds or more of .22lr in the year leading up to our hunt and also practiced with a youth model 7-08rem. (Another good cartridge choice). And I don’t mean shooting off a bench. I set them up with a tripod to simulate shooting off of sticks. Paid off big time. 9 shots with 7 dead animals between my two kids and no tracking required for anything. The only animal that took more than one shot was my daughter’s zebra which stood there and soaked up 3 perfectly placed rounds before going down. The warthog, blesbok, impala, steenbok, blue wildebeest, and springbok my kids shot all dropped with single shots.

Practice and then practice some more. Also get a copy of “the perfect shot II” and show them the animals and shot placement. It really helps.

@Elkeater
And when they think they have done enough practice they have to do more, est field positions and sticks.
Bob

 

[sureshot375]

Any quality bullet would be fine. I would look at swift a frame, Barnes TSX, or Nosler accubond.

Nothing replaces shot placement. 6.5 creed is plenty enough to kill a sable.

My wife killed a sable with a borrowed 7 Mauser using some type generic soft point bullet.

The sable fell at the shot and ungracefully tried to exit the scene without ever really making it to his feet. (Bob Nelson and other .243 sensitive readers may want to stop at this point in the story. ) I put a couple fast shots in it with the .243 we had brought for the kids to hunt with using Norma whitetail loads just to make sure it didn’t get up, and it didn’t. All of the shots would have been independently fatal.

Preparation in the form of hunting and simulated hunting scenarios, along with taking a familiar trusted rifle, is far more important to success than taking a bigger gun.

Using a relatively light caliber didn’t hider my wife. Other pre trip decisions had a much larger impact on our hunting abilities. Morning sickness isn’t ideal for bumpy roads and kopie climbing. Here is my beautiful, pregnant, and very nauseous wife with her first African animal.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

My two personal 6.5CM's have accounted for 959 head of game, including 30 black wildebeest, 66 blue wildebeest, 57 eland, 31 gemsbok, 29 red hartebeest, 3 sable, 25 waterbuck and 8 zebra.

Hard to argue 57 Eland…

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Any quality bullet would be fine. I would look at swift a frame, Barnes TSX, or Nosler accubond.

Nothing replaces shot placement. 6.5 creed is plenty enough to kill a sable.

My wife killed a sable with a borrowed 7 Mauser using some type generic soft point bullet.

The sable fell at the shot and ungracefully tried to exit the scene without ever really making it to his feet. (Bob Nelson and other .243 sensitive readers may want to stop at this point in the story. ) I put a couple fast shots in it with the .243 we had brought for the kids to hunt with using Norma whitetail loads just to make sure it didn’t get up, and it didn’t. All of the shots would have been independently fatal.

Preparation in the form of hunting and simulated hunting scenarios, along with taking a familiar trusted rifle, is far more important to success than taking a bigger gun.

Using a relatively light caliber didn’t hider my wife. Other pre trip decisions had a much larger impact on our hunting abilities. Morning sickness isn’t ideal for bumpy roads and kopie climbing. Here is my beautiful, pregnant, and very nauseous wife with her first African animal.

View attachment 741137

@sureshot375
I notice you said you put a couple of shots from the 243 in. It was probably already dead from the 6.5 but didn't know it. But it still took 2x243s to do what one 6.5 had already done.
Just could help myself.
Bob

 

[ftothfadd]

I used 143 grain Norma bondstrike bullets with excellent outcome in Tajikistan on a mid Asian ibex hunt.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm really not sure why there is so much postering about the question on a 6.5 CM load. For a kid. This is getting beat to death.This is for his kid. Not him. He has a bigger rifle.

Are there better cartridges, yes. Is this an option for his kid, no.

His kid already hunts deer so he is used to hunting .The PH won't let the kid shoot too far, beyond his and the carriages ability. The terminal ballistics will be fine.at 100 yards or in. If it wasn't ok the PH wouldn't have agreed to the 6.5 CM for his kid to use.

It seems like either people can't read the OP's original question and statement. Or, they want to saddle a kid with a cartridge that will cause a flinch and thus a bad shot. The PH I hunt with has repeatedly said that kids and women do better than men since they the kid isn't trying to prove something with a magnum cartridge and they listen to the PH. Per Jakes,.(PH) Most men can't shoot for shit, as he says.

@txtrout75218
I continually ask the question why can our kids kill game with calibres we deem as inadequate
But daddy needs a big boomer to do the same job

That's right daddy used to kill game with the little gun he gave his kids with no problem.
Then Joe the gun writer convinced him he needed a big magnum to do the same job.

The beauty of this is we haven't brainwashed our kids with this idea YET.
The little gun Pappy used to kill game killed the sons game and now kills the grandkids game just as deed as it did two generations ago.
The game hasn't gotten any tougher
We have grown to believe the so called experts and gun comt advertising that bigger is better.
In some cases yes but in a lot of cases no.

A 257 Roberts will kill game just as dead as a 257 Weatherby out to 300 yards and if'n we are honest with ourselves how much game have we actually shot past 250 yards or even 200 yards.
Probably very little, in my case maybe 2%.
I'm not advocating using cartridges not suitable for the size game we hunt but look realistically at what we hunt, distance hunted and cartridge used. We could in all honesty step down a bit in our choices for hunting and still a bit the same results of yore. Dead animals and full freezers.
Bob

 

[sureshot375]

@sureshot375
I notice you said you put a couple of shots from the 243 in. It was probably already dead from the 6.5 but didn't know it. But it still took 2x243s to do what one 6.5 had already done.
Just could help myself.
Bob

Bob I would have been disappointed if you didn’t if you didn’t have a smart comeback!!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob I would have been disappointed if you didn’t if you didn’t have a smart comeback!!

@sureshot375
I just couldn't resist.
Anything 243 usually gets my attention and sometimes a nice comment.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Have had excellent results with another brand but as posted by experienced users, the 6.5 CM and 130 grain CXs will work fine on all of those animals. For shot placement, suggest the book, Perfect Shot II and see what type of sticks your PH uses, buy a set and practice with them.

Amazon.com

@Hogpatrol
I had a look at the book the perfect shot while in camp in Namibia.
I thought that's all well and good but did the animals read the book and asked myself what happens when the animal doesn't present the perfect shot.
Me personally have a different approach.
It's good to know the placement of the perfect shot and the anatomy but if it isn't nicely broadside where do I put my shot.
I do things in a bit of a backwards way. For example if the animal is quartering away I know where the vitals are so I work out where I want the bullet to exit first . This then gives me an imaginary line back to where I need to hit to achieve said result. I use this method for any angle the animal is in. If I don't think the projectiles will not reach the vitals I don't pull the trigger.
It takes a good bullet the hit the south end of north bound animal and penetrate from backside to breakfast. If I can't guarantee that will happen the animal walks free or I wait for a better shot.
The book was very useful in learning where to hit game but so was the PH telling you where to aim. They know the game better than I do.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

At that velocity be a total fkup here.....sorry but pissy little bullets going hyper...forget it....seen 300 ultra mag blow up ....absolutely not interested.... .....

@spike.t
A big 160gn round nose just dawdling along will work better than a light bullet a mach holy shit batman even a mono in my book.
The big round nose will drive deep and dump a lot of energy along the way.
Yes the mach holy Dooley bullet may expand but in a lot of cases it won't have the same immediate affect on game. I'm still old school in a lot of ways but do love the way my fast 25 kills especially at longer ranges 150+++ yards.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Sable are big, tough, and expensive, I took mine at 220 yards with a single frontal chest shot using a 35 Whelen. If I was using a 6.5CM that day I would have passed on that shot. I'm in a very similar situation with my daughter, I’m planning a family safari in 2027 and if she can’t handle our 7mm-08 I will probably look at a 6.5CM or a suppressed 308.

@Art Lambart II
Their ain't much a Whelen ain't good for.
Get a suppressor for your Whelen ( cheaper than a new rifle)and your daughter can shoot it without issue.
Problem solved
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

160 gr Woodleigh PPSN or Norma Oryx 156 gr, either at 2500 fps is more than plenty.

I don't know of anyone who'd opt for a 350 gr bullet (even if such were made in bonded premium) at 2600 fps out of a 458 Lott for cape buffalo.

You aren't taking a 400 yard shot on a sable bull anyway, probably more like 75 - 150.

@sgt_zim
Have you tried those big 160gn round nose Woodleigh in your 6.5 yet.
If so how did they go.
Bob