Ok question for PH ,outfitters and who ever would like to comment

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by billc, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Ole Bally sure we could work something out over a G&T or a cold beer... :) Not that he was is or ever will be but was there not a gentle men by the name of Alex Strauss operating on Nottingham about 8 - 13 years ago, I might be under the wrong impression but it does ring a bit of a bell.....

    You are 100% correct with the citrus trees, when I started hunting, I started in the eatern cape and specifically hunted Kudu on a big farm in the Sun lands area, the owner had a transport company and citrus is reasonably popular there and the Kudu were suckers for it... I have days that I believe that I was born 80 years to late or even 30 today is one of them especially when I read things like this.......

    My very best always,
     
  2. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    ja I used to hunt for Alec Strauss. He was quite a character to say the least - as you appear to know! Nicknamed the 'Highway Jackal' but that's another story!! I hung in there coz I loved the area! I also learned some hard lifes lessons there too! 'School fees' as we put it in the family! You gotta pay to learn!
    I was thinking of our darker shade of pale type partner!! :)
    I was definitely born too late! about a century or so! :)
    View attachment 10380
    This is around 1930 odd in Tanganyika! I wish!
     
  3. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    No other Ph going to comment on this.I thought more of you would have an idea on this.
     
  4. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

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    I am not so interested in the inches, but being educated in game management, I am fairly interested in how a kudu population are managed.
    Jaco, when you have 750 heads with reproductive rate at 25%, and shoot 1-1,5% as adult bulls every year, you still have to cull around 170 animals minus natural mortality every year to keep a stabil population. What are the composition on this culling with regards to sex ratio and age distribution?
     
  5. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    Hunt with Jaco Strauss Bill! If guys are charging you by the inch the caller of the trophy HAS to be right or you don't pay! But it just opens up grounds for conflict which I'd avoid...it is supposed to be a holiday not a scratching match!
     
  6. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Ole bally thats why I am asking the questions now and telling the outfitters I am looking at what my goal is.Looking to try and avoid any conflict with being upfront with what I am looking for.Was really thinking i would get my guide line from ph's what is ok in this matter.I am waiting on jaco to get back to me.
     
  7. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    Bill, The active PH's that aren't outfitters are getting busy right now with hunts so you may be stuck with us retired PH's and outfitters that have the time to get on the net more often!
    You're 100% right to ask ALL the questions before you get mired in something not well thought through!
    Hunting in Zimbabwe, NO ONE can tell you he'll guarantee a Kudu of X inches...the properties are unfenced (except for a handfull left now) and the populations are migratory to a large degree....or have a large Home range to be more accurate. Other forces such as poaching in general and with dogs also put a spanner in the works. So in Zim, you'd take your chances but no one charges by the inch. However, the PH could pretty much call the Kudu within an inch or two.
    Jaco could well correct me here, but in SA, a lot of properties are very small and the outfitters buy their game in for the season from the auctions. Thus they know what they've bought and can charge per inch. Those more fortunate with larger properties ( like Jaco) have their own home grown sustainable population and have historical average length records. He'll also know that there are bigger ones around on the property. Elsewhere in these threads is a gent offering hunts in the eastern cape stating that he has over 100 000 hectares of area. What he doesn't tell you is that they are most likely 3000 acre at the most each and they're spread through out the whole eastern cape and should you hunt with him, you spend a lot of time in transit moving from one hunting property to another across the province. So the hunt is not exactly relaxing in one camp as much as getting to see a whole lot of highways and small fenced properties.
    At the end of the day, your research needs to center on exactly where you'll hunt, the size of that property, speak to clients that have hunted Kudu there, if you are expected to pay by the inch, then the onus is on the PH to call it exactly. His 'under call' mistake should be to your benefit and not charged for. If he's 'ify' about a borderline call decide for yourself decide for yourself whether the animal is a wall hanger (and you can afford it) in YOUR trophy room and whether the story of that hunt will last in your memory when you gaze at your trophy. As a PH, I found that that huge trophy that just happened to be standing on the side of the road and got shot from the truck door amid the dust was an emotional disappointment versus that 'lesser' trophy that gave us a run around for hours ( that has a real story to the hunt!).
    That 'broomed off' wily old Kudu bull will be the challenge rather than the young inexperienced sharp pointed one! That is why, in my humble opinion, SCI scoring doesn't benefit the populations of African animals as it favours the longer horned younger 'prime breeding' aged animals over the old bulls which is exactly opposite to the antlered animals in the US.

    As an aside, I often wonder what people have to say to their friends when they have shot a caged Lion and had it mounted in their trophy rooms...my skin crawls at the thought of lying to my friends to justify what I've done! :)
     
  8. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Ole bally, you defenitly know your Kudu rather than migratory changing it to large home ranges...Nice... :) I like it....Everything what you have said is very true although there are some smaller farms that do not operate meat factories like some others but you are 100% correct. Ultimatly it is the PH's call and his responsibility as you have correctly stated, especially if the hunter has made it clear what he wants (keeping in mind that if it does not come around it won't) The latter I have seen is the biggest obstacle..... being impatient.

    Set a goal and work for it, it is all the sweat, blood and tears that make it worth it in the end of the day, this could not be more true.

    My very best always.
     
  9. Kowas Hunting Safaris

    Kowas Hunting Safaris AH Veteran

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    Not a fan of sliding schale price - no matter on which specy.
    The PH makes the call...and carries the consequences.
    My advise: No matter what you choose...
    - feel comfortable with your choise;
    - ensure that a written agreement is in place;
    - be in the posession of a calculation sheet / pro-forma invoice or quotation.
    Happy hunting...enjoy the planning process - it is part of the safari!
     
  10. Macs B

    Macs B AH Veteran

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    Germany certainly has a different take on who is responsible for making the final decision on trophies. Our 1x1 Red Deer trophy hunts are all priced on a sliding scale. I've briefed every hunter I've ever taken out that it is my responsibility as a guide to judge the trophy for him prior to the shot, but that is only an estimate. Ultimately it is the hunter's responsibility to take the shot or not. In fairness though we aren't dealing with a difference of inches but kilos green weight. It is a bit easier to make the guesstimate of trophy class. Unfortunately it has happened that a client takes a stag that we judged as close only to find out that he has gone over the limit for his expected price range. The standard response from the Chief Forester has always been, don't shoot if you don't want to pay for the trophy. With typical German efficiency he is billed for the trophy that was shot not the one he hoped for. When I think back on it I can't ever remember a situation where the hunter was upset about the larger trophy and price. Usually it is the penalty fees that cause people to complain.
     

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