I was wondering about how the animal populations are kept up on ranches

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by billc, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    The ranches after they got fenced in and animal pop. got to were the owner wanted.I guess some animals get bought and stocked on the ranches.When the ranch gets older and animals are hunted does the ranch just use the breeding that goes on to restock the ranch or do ranches need to add animals every year.I would like to think free range animals would happen on some ranches that have been around for years now and stocking animals raise in pens is not needed.I would like to hunt a place that the animals were not just stocked a month before I get there is why I ask.I realize some animals had to be sticked as they were not there when started.But hoping after years go on they reproduce on this ranches.Hope this makes sense.thanks Billc
  2. ikeda

    ikeda AH Veteran

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    That's why I will not hunt a high fenced "ranch", even a big one. They must be stocked/re-stocked at least periodically. I'm not criticizing those who do but I just prefer to hunt truly free range animals.
  3. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Hi Bill
    Very good question. Some animals was in these hunting areas long before we started ranching animals. So it was easy we did put up a fence and fenced them in, Limpopo had Kudu, Impala, Warthog, Duiker and many more species natural, so now you do have animals in there natural habitat just fenced in, but some landowners did bring more species to add to the property Sable, Rhino and more. Most of these hunting areas are 40 years and older yes new ones do pop up but it is very expensive and we can not move any animal without the permission from Nature conservation, they also do not allow animals that was not natural in the area to be introduce into a new area . This is what i do every year , we count the animals with helicopter, let say i count 20 trophy Kudu bulls on the property, then we work about how many we can hunt the next season, a Kudu bull will take anything from 6 to 9 years depending on genes to be a good trophy if ever. This now leave me with a number i can hunt every year, never more than 40 % of what trophy animals i do have, taking in consideration the number of young bulls that will be ready the next season, This leave us with the next question what about inbreeding remember we got them fenced in, i never add new bulls it just take to long for them to find a place in a breeding herd but if you introduce female or cows the first season you will have offspring from them and a new bloodline. I do not know of anybody buying a trophy Kudu and introduce it to a area just to hunt it in two weeks the risk of moving a big trophy animal is to high and it is to expensive . These old bulls will jump a fence or try to jump it. I have seen with my own eyes how a young Eland bull jumped a fence and i am talking 8 feet and a bit. If you hunt a area of good size ( o yes size does matter it is always about size ) you will find that the animals you hunt was born on the property and did grow up in the hunting area. So now we are back again to your first question what is a good size area to hunt?
    Johan
  4. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Hi Ikeda
    I see you advertise Black Wildebeest on your website, where do they come from?
    Johan
  5. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Ok so safe to say if the ranch has been around for awhile then you are hunting animals born on that ranch.I did not think of someome adding females to a place for breeding reasons but that makes sense if you all ready have good bulls there.So must animals in south africa reach so called trophy size when they are over what age then.
  6. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Bill Yes that is true and i am sure my other hunting friends on AH will back me up on this. Not each male animal will be a trophy one day even if it die of old age. Some have good genes some not , then different areas also play a big role. Lets take a Impala in some areas you will find them 23 to 26 inc but then you move to a other area and you will not get 24 inch so age does not play a role rather genes and areas.
    Johan
  7. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    You make a good point Johan, about the wildebeest (lol).

    And I agree with what you are saying about running a game ranch, keep up the great job!
  8. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Billc, it take a long time to grow trophy animals in Africa, It can take a kudu and red hartebeest 10+ years to get huge. Sure springbok and impala grow horns fast...but they breed at a faster rate.

    That's why if you stock game, you really are sitting on a investment...hoping it pays off. And that is why you see high buffalo, sable and roan prices...just to mention a few.
  9. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Hi Enysse
    Thank you very much , we as hunters and landowners must take care about our animals and our trophies if we hunt everything in our sights we will not have anything for our kids to hunt mine and yours.
    Keep well and enjoy your day.
    Johan
  10. Spiral Horn Safaris

    Spiral Horn Safaris AH Fanatic

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    I agree with what Johan said, we have had our Ranch for over 25 years now I did buy in some eland and gemsbuck for breeding stock but besides that I have never had a reason to buy in game.

    Billc it is all about game management at the end of the day I am extremely lucky to have neighbours that I have know from a very young age who give me unlimited access to their properties as well.

    We are fortunate enough in today’s world to have trail camera’s to help us determine numbers of trophy animals this all forms part of establishing a quota on each property, every concession that I hunt on including my own land (5 000 acres) has a quota that is how we ensure top quality animals. Total size of hunting area 30 000 acres.

    Johan we will never silence the anti fence guy's but then again they have most probably never tried it so….

    Best Regards
    Louis van Bergen
  11. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    Bill the only game ever raised in pens are animals raised for serious stock for game farmers not game farms there is a big difference. Yes sure depending on what the client is prepared to pay some outfitters will buy that pen raised trophy to be hunted but that is another issue called put and take.

    Anyway lest say after a season the farmer still has to many impalas and it's summer so instead of getting them all hunted he gets them caught and sold now in South Africa the methods of game capturing of wild animals is probarbly the best in the world and its quite an operation but to get back to stocking farmers need to stock game from time to time depending on droughts, introducing a new specie and new blood to avoid inbreeding as an example.

    Farmer could also have made a mistake with his quota and taken too many of of a certain species. But even when game gets dropped onto land they are not tame they might still be dozed a bit with some drugs to avoid stress in the truck but in a couple of hours they will already start to explore their new surroundings and a week later you will struggle to find them.

    Sorry for the longish post but I just needed to clear some of the wording you used. BTW only very expensive game gets pen raised as it does cost quite a bit to keep them fed.
  12. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Well these clears alot of things up for me.South africa may not be for everyone but I look at animals that are born and raised on a piece of land as fair chase.That is also with the fact most have thousands of acres to roam in.I think any animal that has years to mature as others around it get hunted get pretty smart quick.Way different then our game ranches that are like 300 to 500 acres that they put and take all season.The animal you hunt may have just been stocked a day before you got there.Plus now I can see you guys as outfitters just dont sit around when not hunting.LOL thats a joke as I do realize there is alot of time before us guys get there to have the fun.I think some of you should bring out all the work it takes to run a place.Give some people a idea of what there paying for other then what they see when there hunt is over.My problem is there are so many nice place and people on here hard to pick were to go with my son.Plus all this talk has me wishing I could go this year.LOL I will keep saving for now though and decide on my plans for 2012 real soon.
  13. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Billc nothing wrong by asking the more you know before the hunt the better. Louis i can not agree with you more.
  14. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    Nicely answered Johan, and I agree 100 percent with you. I sometimes wonder where some guys get the idea that animals get "put" into a game reserve to be hunted 2 weeks later. i dont doubt that it has happened, but personally, I dont know anybody like that. All the animals on my concessions, and I have no doubt yours and Louis' , are all self sustaining. They completely look after themselves against the elements of mother nature and predators.
  15. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Louis
    A very good friend of mine from TX told me this story, Now first i must tell you this, this friend is a animal collector and he shoots to collect his animals but anyway he booked himself a buffalo hunt ( Bison ) on one or another ranch via the internet the buffalo had a tag in his ear with a number and he book the animal by the tag number. He left his house the Saturday morning shot the buffalo i am not sure about the size of the ranch and was back home Saturday night with a trophy Buffalo now to all of us reading this we will say it is not hunting and to me it is not hunting but for him it is about getting something he wants, and who am i to say he can not do it the way he wants. If it is ok for him then let it be.
    Johan
    Ps i do not agree with something like that.
  16. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks Maruis
    In 2002 we lost 96 Kudu cows and a few young bulls because of the drought we had in Messina we did our best but still lost those numbers. I was very lucky we did not loose any big bulls because they stood there ground against the cows and young bulls but we did feel the lost of those 5 ,6 year old bulls 4 years later.
    Johan
  17. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Thats is why I say you guys should clear the air on the stocking of animals.The practice in the untied states on most fenced places are put and take.So we hear fence we think easy dumb animals.Plus most of the game farms in the states are run as many hunters as you can so keep stocking to make the money.Pure business only.From what I see about you guys from south africa this is more then just about money.Yes you make your living but you also look long term and doing the best for the client you have.In the states there already worried about the next guy.The man problem is the difference of the two are not spelled out clear.So many want to hunt africa but dont want to spend the money to hunt stocked animals.The internet is helping clear up something but remember the most any of us over here see is africa is at hunting shows and tv.Hard to figure everything out when your so far away from each other.Before i got answer on this post I would have said you stock your ranches each year.
  18. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    For our African friends here and to add to what billc is saying, we have operations here in the U.S. that are absolutely put and take. They are strictly managed breeding programs to ensure top quality antlers. I dont' know the exact details of when the animals are allowed out of corrals or just where they're even born, it could be in the field. But in the end this is an American version of a canned hunt. I can think immediately of two elk operations and two whitetail operations that are exactly that.

    The characteristics around these operations are high fences on what I would call relatively small pieces of ground (particularly with respect to elk) with guarantees of a monster bull or buck. The latter half of this is of course the tell tale sign. In my opinion this practice while legal is dumbing down and cheapening the hunting experience. But if a guy just wants to buy his "trophy," well what can you do? The guy who does this is in my opinion is cheating himself of the real experience.

    I think these American put and take operations that seem to be popping up more and more is why we're seeing so many threads concerning high fences and fair chase. But if you're comparing a fenced game farm in South Africa to these types of operations, well you're probably making an apples to oranges comparison.

    My hunt last year was indeed on fenced property. At first I kind of had questions about that. Those questions were removed quite quickly. The animals at least on the property I hunted had abundant cover and required only a leap or two to disappear from view. We did not corner any animals up against a fence or anyway somehow use the fences to our advantage. Granted the animals were contained, but one could not possibly compare them to being contained in a way that one could say you were just shooting fish in a barrel.

    If fences bother you that much, well then don't hunt there. But without having actually visited or at least researched a particular game ranch and to deem it as "unfair" chase because it is high fenced is a hasty conclusion
  19. Spiral Horn Safaris

    Spiral Horn Safaris AH Fanatic

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    Hi Johan

    Well I understand where your friend is coming from but would have to say that it is not hunting but as you said collecting, as most experienced hunters know to get a good trophy animal takes respect for ones quarry as well as patience in my opinion those two little virtues are what makes for a great hunt.

    Johan I am so happy that we have been getting so much rain in the last 5 years, I wish you all the best and may you never lose so many kudu cow again but they must be doing well with all the rain now.

    Billc I do understand were the confusion comes from but those hunting show don’t help either because they are usually action packed in to a 1 hour hunt that most probably took 10 days in the real world.

    Best Regards
    Louis van Bergen
  20. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I agree the tv shows do not help at all.Hurts the same way for hunting in the states to.Makes everything look to easy and people have no idea how long the hunt really is.Plus have heard more then one time how a outfitter gives the tv host a way better hunt that normal hunters to make him self look better on tv.I was worried about that in africa as I have heard some favor guys with money.I am going to spend alot of money but it has taken many years to save.I am not going to have thousands of extra dollars to throw around.I think as real hunters we can tell the difference between tv and real hunting just make your jobs as outfitters harder.I just think as hunters or outfitter we need to get more facts out that show the real facts.I have already learn alot on this site and enjoy how most of you back each other up.No one for the most part taking cheap shoots to just try and get business.Very refreshing as in the states they for the most part will cut each others heart out to get business.FOR YOU GUYS WITH YOUR OWN RANCH HOW MANY ANIMALS WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE ON YOUR RANCH.aLL TOTAL FEMALES AND MALES

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