My new Model 70 pre 64- 375 H&H "working" rifle- Have sight question

Pole Pole said:

Have your eye drilled and tapped for a new lens before you drill and tap an a pre 64 model 70!

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I agree....Been thinking about that "eyes drilled" I have no line tri-focals now and played volleyball with my daughter last week, talk about confusing as hell. I was better without my glasses. I wanted to get lazik or similar procedure. I still shoot without my glasses and with both eyes open.

EfRed said:

It sounds like what you love about this rifle is that the sights are on target when you shoulder it blindfolded. I don't know exactly what's wrong with the sights that are on it, but I wouldn't change anything until I'd run some rounds through it. It may be that what looks like a problem isn't a problem...

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Yes, there are. Sights worn out I have not hunted with yet, but have put 10 plus boxes through it. Front sight is slight bent and rear sight's spring need replacing or the whole thing needs tightening. These are the problems and finding replacing "OEM" rear has been impossible. So, put her to the side for awhile, however she is back on the top of list for maintenance along with an odd Mauser 404 I bought in 4 years ago.

EfRed said:

Velo - just a question from someone who wonders, this rifle looks to have been used for many years and the stock has not cracked. Wouldn't that indicate that it doesn't suffer from the weakness that many 70s do, and so isn't likely to crack? Nothing wrong with a little preventative maintenance, though...

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Velo Dog said:

I have noticed that with my own rifles and observations of other people’s rifles yes, wood stocked older well used ones that have not yet cracked are not as likely to crack any more.
This is especially true if said rifles have survived quite a lot of shots fired through them with full pressure / hard recoiling ammunition.

However, I will guess that over the decades as wood dries out, including but not limited to rifle stocks, a crack or cracks might develop, with or without recoil being involved.
And so, I totally agree with you that there is nothing wrong with a little preventative maintenance.
Regarding wooden stock reinforcement, it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

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I would agree. Velo, Funny thing, it came from Alaska. I did not mention on the original post, but the bluing is wore infront the foregrip from hand oils. It's was carried for many miles over the should by the original owner. I love this patina about it.

Traveler1 said:

I agree....Been thinking about that "eyes drilled" I have no line tri-focals now and played volleyball with my daughter last week, talk about confusing as hell. I was better without my glasses. I wanted to get lazik or similar procedure. I still shoot without my glasses and with both eyes open.

Yes, there are. Sights worn out I have not hunted with yet, but have put 10 plus boxes through it. Front sight is slight bent and rear sight's spring need replacing or the whole thing needs tightening. These are the problems and finding replacing "OEM" rear has been impossible. So, put her to the side for awhile, however she is back on the top of list for maintenance along with an odd Mauser 404 I bought in 4 years ago.



I would agree. Velo, Funny thing, it came from Alaska. I did not mention on the original post, but the bluing is wore infront the foregrip from hand oils. It's was carried for many miles over the should by the original owner. I love this patina about it.

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A couple of suggestions. You can remove the rear sight and should be leaf spring underneath for the sight leaves. You may be able to restore some tension for folding leaves by reshaping the spring. Williams Gun Sight Co sells replacement front sights. Check out their website catalog. I would advise obtaining a sight pusher to remove and replace front sight. Buy one of theirs or look for one on eBay. You might consider changing the rear sight to something more visible. Fortunately yours is screwed on and easily removed. Williams rear sights are mostly held on with one screw so you can simply pick one screw hole to attach new sight. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) Williams no longer offers generic rear iron leaf sight (dropping them was a recent development it seems). Only the fibre optic variety now. These are highly visible and you might want to give them a try. Of course, retain the original rear iron sight in case you want to sell the rifle down the road. Toss the bent front sight and look for another "original" one at gun show or any gunsmith usually has a drawer full of old sights. Williams still does sell brass bead front sights similar to your original one.

This is Williams generic Firesight set. Rear sight attaches with one hidden screw underneath the sliding leaf (I think). You can have them send you a dovetail front sight to fit your ramp.

Below is the 1990s Winchester Model 70 rear sight I have mounted on both my Springfield 03A3 PG rifle and 98 Mauser 404 DGR. Adjustable both windage and elevation. Attaches to barrel with one screw through the ramp hidden underneath the sight block. Rear sight flips down. Many are up on eBay right now. The ramp should be long enough to cover the second screw hole in your barrel.

Man, what a Necro-thread.

If this were mine, I’d replace the factory front sight with a fiber-optic sight that you can actually see. Then, I’d track down an old school Redfield or Lyman rear aperture sight that fits the factory-drilled screw holes on the left side of the receiver.

Somewhat like this rear aperture sight on my 1942 .30-06 M70, which had the same d&t-ed receiver holes:


Once I had that set up, I’d zero it +2” high @ 100-yds with one .375 load, like the “all-around” 270grn stuff, and just hunt with it that way.

Just thought I would chime in with my pre '64 model 70 custom from many years ago. It is the hands down best rifle for anything in Africa, fast, light, incredibly accurate. Don't choke on the price but check it out and let me know your opinions... sadly my days afield are nearly over for good at age 75... link

EfRed said:

It sounds like what you love about this rifle is that the sights are on target when you shoulder it blindfolded. I don't know exactly what's wrong with the sights that are on it, but I wouldn't change anything until I'd run some rounds through it. It may be that what looks like a problem isn't a problem...

There is a class of firearms which earn their keep by being perfect for inside 50 or 60 yards, the defensive arm. They're what you carry if you're not particularly hunting or in areas of short range visibility. That shouldering characteristic makes your gun the absolute best for that purpose. Then there's an argument that says not having to shoot at greater than 50 yards is the true test of the hunter.

I have an old 30-06 made by Husqvarna, essentially a '98 clone, that comes up for me as yours does for you. The gun is worn and stocked in something that looks like someone cut it out of a 2"x6", inletted it and got the side view pretty good but didn't care about the edges of the board being so evident. A bit ugly. But then I don't really need sights for close up as it works like a shotgun for me. I won't change this rifle.

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50-60 yards is plenty of range for hunting in my experience, though i may change my tune if i ever hunt pronghorn or sheep in the alpine. People today speak of 50 yards like the animal is right on top of you. It isn't - my last trophy shot two seasons ago was 19 yards and it was not right on top of me, i can't remember when i've shot anything that was over 50 yards away. Not that i wouldn't go for it, just that this is not the way it's gone.

On the perfect-handling characteristics you mention here, i've read and heard some old smiths discussing this. These characteristics come from something that seems to be generally dreaded today - drop at heel. Not many mention this - the straight-back stocks that are so good for scopes and recoil management come at the cost of birdgun-like handling. The birdgun-like handling comes at the cost of recoil and muzzle-jump. Nothing's perfect! I hunt with iron sights and prefer the older style stocks with some drop.

By the way, for the sake of the subject and not necessarily the original poster these years ago, i would not take advice that is founded on collector-value if you are not a collector. The only value i'm concerned with in my classic arms assuming it is a hunting arm is the value it has to me personally, whatever combination of characters that hinges upon. If modifying amplifies that value to you, then modify it. The whole collector value thing is odd to me, the whole culture is odd, like crazy cat ladies are odd. If you are concerned with the value of something when you sell it, how valuable was it to you in the first place that it was your plan to sell it? How valuable is it if it sits locked-away in a collection? It's only valuable in that case at time of sale. And once you sell it, you no longer have it. If it doesn't bother you that you no longer have it, then it wasn't very valuable to you, was it. If you are a gun-flipper - or museum curator - i get it. Though i'd recommend real estate in the first case.