A question to those who have had a "bad" hunt in Africa

[Bruinmaster]

This is what I want to hear - what questions didn't you ask that first time that you would now and what specifically did you learn? Can you please share? I'm planning now and want to make sure that I'm asking the right questions and not leaving it up to luck!

Well on my first trip I could not find out much about the outfitter other that what the booking agent told me as he had hunted with the PH a year earlier and had nothing but great reviews about him. He still to this day never got his trophies back. I would never purchase another hunt unless I could talk to several others who have hunted there and can share their experiences. I would exhaust the entire reference list to gather others opinions on the operation and not put the trust into just one or two people.

Secondly get everything agreed in writing as that will leave nothing to assumption when you are on the hunt Trophy fees, Accomodations, all other costs. Have it all put in writing, This will assist you later should the PH want to change anything mid trip and for me it definitely eased my mind to know that we had an agreement that we both understood and could follow well before the trip even started. Communication is key, make sure you ask the outfitter alot of questions and that you get the answers that you feel comfortable with and that they are responsive to all of your inquires. This will also show that they will be attentive to you during your stay as well. Do not be afraid to make special requests as I have found it better to ask for something than think that they can not do it or will not do it. I have found that most PH/Outfitters will go above and beyond to make your trip the trip of a lifetime.

Since my first trip I have spent a lot of time on this forum reading everything I could about safari planning, and hunting in Africa, reading about others misfortunes as well as their successes and I believe that is why I would feel very comfortable to use many of the outfitters who advertise on this website. This is a great site to become educated about African safari's in general. Become a sponge and soak it all in. I must also add that this site has some of the best price offers that I have seen anywhere including trade shows, Auctions, magazines, other sites etc.

Hope this helped you out a little bit and good luck with your planning.

 

[Cliffy]

Although a lot of this chatter is interesting I think we drifting from the original premise of my question-
"Where do you secure your hunt from if it went bad?" not "What makes a bad hunt?"

So, If you had a bad experience with a hunt in Africa, where did you purchase the hunt?

On the internet? At an auction? At the DSC or SCI shows? Other outdoors convention or show? Where?

 

[Royal27]

Very helpful Bruinmaster.

And you are right, Cliffy. I was helping to push this off topic. Sorry!

I will shut up and listen now.

 

[Grumulkin]

I've never had a bad hunt in Africa.

I have in Canada and the U.S.A. but that's a bit off the subject.

 

[adgunner]

Cliffy, never had a bad hunt in Africa, but did have one in Canada. It came through "word of mouth" from someone who had been there. That bad experience (not checking refs etc...) served me well for future hunts elsewhere.

 

[rnovi]

Part of what I've learned is about very clearly defining the exact nature of what I expected from the hunt and what I expected from the trophies.

For instance, I LOVE spot and stalk. I have absolutely ZERO desire to hunt fence lines. Sure, 65,000 hectares is a free-range environment?ut hunting a fence line in SA on a 65k property? Nope, that's not what I'm looking for.

Define the trophies closely. I'd rather shoot an ancient, battle scarred old Kudu with heavily worn tips and 40" of height than a 44" youngster. Defining a trophy is far more than inches to me - that's the real point I make with my PH. So, define the trophy in absolute detail. Talk about the hide conditions (my wife loves to make pillows from hides?attlescars may be a detraction), talk about color, talk about EVERYTHING. For darn sure make sure the PH knows what is NOT acceptable. Be clear, be concise. And be darn sure to ask "Does that type of trophy exist here?". You may well be hunting in a place that just plain doesn't support what you are looking for.

Ask the stupid questions! Seriously! "Do you have toilet paper on hand when we are stalking?" Seems stupid right? Yeah, and if you get hit with that bout of African Dysentery you may not think it's quite as funny. Talk about sleeping conditions, bed size (I need a king when I'm out with my wife?ouble on my own preferred), blankets, temperatures.

Be clear about your physical conditioning. Don't bullshit this. Your PH is likely going to be in GREAT shape. Theoretically he's walking for a living, right? Wait, you don't know? Better ask! Your physical condition is going to define a hunt. If your knees are shot, better be clear about it now. Or if your idea of exercise is watching football on the tele. Define what you can and cannot do.

Ask about the weather. Look it up on the Web. Pay attention to both min and max temps. Dress accordingly. If it rains, were you prepared?

Do you have medical conditions? I need a CPAP - which means I need electricity at night. Africa in the Bush is not the same as what you might find in the USA. I packed a spare LithIon battery to be safe Do you like hot showers? Umm, did you make sure to ask if the lodge has hot water?n the morning for a shower? And is soap/shampoo provided or are you bringing your own?

What is the food like? Allergies? Is beer/wine provided? What's the Cost of booze? Softdrinks?

On the hunt, do you pack your own water or does the PH or Tracker? What are YOUR personal responsibilities on the hunt?

The bottom line is this: if you don't ask, then you don't know. And you have to take responsibility for not asking in the first place. Your job as a Hunter is to define what you want.

Personally, I had a GREAT experience with Leopards Valley Safari's. Part of what made it great was that I did my best to ask Dave every stupid question I could possibly think of. He was patient and kind and was glad I was asking the questions. By defining everything I could think of I made sure my expectations were properly set.

In the end, after all the interrogations and questions I knew that my Outfitter & PH were legit, real and knew what they were talking about. There were no hidden agendas. No lies. No BS.

The time to break out the Bull-Shit-Ometer is before ANY money EVER changes hands.

And ask for references. And CALL THEM!

I recall I was looking at an Argali hunt last year and asked for a reference. What I learned was that the "mystique of the hunt" that I was so drawn to would have been more like a Death March and that true trophies were likely to be very, very hard to find. I also heard from the reference to "bring money for fixers".

YOU have a RESPONSIBILITY to ASK THE QUESTIONS. Remember, if the Outfitter balks or gets testy about it all it's also a clear indicator of what you can expect when it comes time to settle everything up.

 

[Grumulkin]

Your PH is likely going to be in GREAT shape. Theoretically he's walking for a living, right?

Not necessairly.

If you want a PH who isn't afraid of walking, get one that's not fat.

 

[rnovi]

Not necessairly.

If you want a PH who isn't afraid of walking, get one that's not fat.

You're right, of course. Not all PH's are in great shape. And likely less so at the beginning of the season than the end. Still, it is a question that should be asked.

 

[buchnerl]

This is a great thread! I am looking forward to what the hunters and AH members say, can be learning full for both us outfitters, PH's and Hunters.

 

[Uintaelkhunter]

I have not had a bad hunt in Africa yet. I would say the best advise is alway check the reference of past hunters preferably from the last year or more recent and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. The one below average hunt I guess I could say was in North America booked at a show. As a client I would say try to get to know your PH or outfitter a little bit before hand. It helps during your hunt to understand each other

 

[Diamondhitch]

Not necessairly.

If you want a PH who isn't afraid of walking, get one that's not fat.

That is not always the case. I am in good shape (sheep shape) and was outwalked by a 240lb landowner (who had recently lost 100lb). My PH and I could keep up but not while actually looking for game, he didn't miss a thing. Needless to say I was surprised and impressed. Don't judge that book by its cover.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Cliffy, you have lost the battle.
I think we will have to create a poll for you to get the info you want.

 

[blackdog001blackdog001]

I took my first away from home big game hunt in 1984, purchasing a anteleope/mule deer hunt at a DU auction and since then have taken 20+/- "away" hunts. These range from an Africa trip thru a booking agent to a couple of drop camp hunts in Alaska, to some pretty plush bird hunts in the US. I've had two bad trips - one to N. Dakota in the mid-1990's and one just over Xmas to Arkansas. Both of these were booked on my own - the former off an ad and the latter off a google search, because I wanted to hunt certain days. The ND hunt was just a plain bust - the "outfitter" and I use that term loosely, did not know how to run a hunt. We left early. The second, in Arkansas, the outfitter had limited access to land and when the birds were not in those spots, no shooting. Everything else was fine and I'd have said it was fine, except I've done this long enough to know when a guy doesn't have enough land to hunt on and too many guns. I put up a very short statement on two other forums devoted to duck hunting that the guy did not have the land he claimed and you would not believe the vitrol directed my way. I guess it is ok to post flowery comments, but not an honest appraisal if things are not as claimed.

That Internet is an amazing thing, and forums like this are a great resource where you should be able to get straight-forward advice. If you use a booking agent, you have a pretty good idea that the hunts are as advertised, although I have known some who "dolled things up" in exchange for the free hunt given over as "investigation" of the operation . . . . Make sure you check both sides of any review. I've called references and they say everything is great, except for such and such and that is the kind of reference you need. Rarely is anything perfect, particularly when you get into wilderness hunting, weather, etc.

Check around, get several references and give yourself enough time to review the options.

One man's opinion.

 

[bluebill]

Hopefully this is on topic, I've been to Africa twice and both times were wonderful (although trip 1 was "saved" - see below). The second trip I booked because of information received on this forum and I have zero complaints, I hunted with CT safaris and it was excellent from start to finish. The first trip, well it was a bit different.

I booked it at an auction, knowing nothing about the outfitter. I'll never do that again. I then had marginal communication with the outfitter (booking agent actually), as they were one to answer every other question. I was told that before my hunt, I'd be speaking with the PH that would work with me. That never happened, so I left the states wondering what I was walking in to. I arrived in Windhoek to be told that the PH I was told would hunt with me was not in the area, and that I'd be hunting with someone else. I was not happy, but as it turned out, this was literally the only thing that saved my safari. The PH was motivated, personable, and worked his tail off for us. I shot exceptional animals, and filled my wish list. He was the only saving grace in the entire experience. Everything else, literally, seemed to be a crap shoot. Food was marginal, a 12 pack of beer was the camp store for alcohol, we never ate until very late at night because truck driver was also cook, shower and water worked sometimes, etc, etc.

Looking back, I'll never book another trip without directly speaking with references, talking with the PH I will be hunting with, and more thoroughly understanding how my expectations mesh with those of the PH and/or outfitter. Knowing that before I booked my second trip allowed me to avoid these issues and end up with a truly relaxing experience. Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[Cliffy]

Even though it's drifting like a ship in the doldrums what I'm seeing is exactly what my postulations will be when a few more chime in.
Come on guys we need a few more posts on "bad" trips to Africa!

 

[joester]

I booked a hunt at one of the Africa-only shows ( held in Atlanta/ Edmonton/ Calgary) through a very well known African PH. Since I would not be hunting DG he would not be guiding me himself but assured me he had a good guide for me. It turned out to be an "appy" (Apprentince PH - not necessarily a bad thing), but this young fellow pretty much sucked. I've never seen his name advertised since, not sure if he ever got his PH license.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I booked a hunt at one of the Africa-only shows ( held in Atlanta/ Edmonton/ Calgary) through a very well known African PH. Since I would not be hunting DG he would not be guiding me himself but assured me he had a good guide for me. It turned out to be an "appy" (Apprentince PH - not necessarily a bad thing), but this young fellow pretty much sucked. I've never seen his name advertised since, not sure if he ever got his PH license.

That kind of bait and switch pretty well sets me off. Sad to hear that.
I would like to read your hunt report!!! Please....

 

[siml]

The only safaris I have had problems with, have been because of the AGENT not being truthful to the clients. There are plenty of good agents out there, can't put them all in the same basket, I have seen a lot of BS at several shows. Photo's on a website or magazine, don't always paint a true picture.

Word of mouth is one of the best forms of knowledge.