A question to those who have had a "bad" hunt in Africa

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Cliffy, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. Cliffy

    Cliffy AH Elite

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    39
    My Photos:
    7
    Hunted:
    Hunted Zim, RSA (2), Namib(2), going again, Calif, Oregon, Arizona, Texas, Virginia, Idaho, South Dakota, Montana, Nevada, MO
    Here's my question- Where did you find your outfitter for the bad hunt? Was it at a public hunting convention, on the internet or an auction?
    I'm wondering if a pattern can be developed to show where the highest chance of problems seems to occur?

    Has anyone ever had a "bad" hunt when it was purchased from an outfitter showing at DSC or SCI?

    Just looking for a pattern if there is one.
     
  2. Bos en Dal Safaris

    Bos en Dal Safaris SPONSOR AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    135
    My Photos:
    7
    Member of:
    PHASA, SA Hunter & Conservation
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Botswana
    I think this can become an intresting thread! Will surely be monitoring. As always i think the members will participate. Well done in advance Cliffy
     
  3. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,004
    Likes Received:
    521
    My Photos:
    75
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    Canada (AB, SK, NWT, BC) USA (NM, TX) South Africa (Limpopo, KZN, Free State, Eastern Cape, Northen Cape), Kyrgyzstan, Czech Republic
    Great topic, those who have experienced this don't want to repeat their mistake and those who haven't certainly don't want to experience it for themselves.
     
  4. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,301
    Likes Received:
    953
    My Photos:
    32
    Member of:
    Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
    One bad hunt was an internet: guy said one thing, did another in person, didn't keep to the terms of the contract.

    Another hunt was a auction hunt: PH was very pushy to shoot anything that had a pulse.:rolleyes:

    I may be pushy at times on AH, but try not to let people get involved with questionable hunts. I did a lot of my hunting before AH. And AH is heaven to learn about what is right and what is wrong in the world of African hunting.
     
  5. Wheels

    Wheels AH Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,390
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    My Photos:
    45
    Hunted:
    Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, Tanzania, Zimbabwe
    Good topic Cliff,

    Fortunately I can't participate in this thread and hope I never will be able to. I will be watching this topic to try to keep from making others mistakes. Thanks.
     
  6. Cliffy

    Cliffy AH Elite

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    39
    My Photos:
    7
    Hunted:
    Hunted Zim, RSA (2), Namib(2), going again, Calif, Oregon, Arizona, Texas, Virginia, Idaho, South Dakota, Montana, Nevada, MO
    I do hope we get a lot of participation on this because "unfortunately" I have never had a bad hunt in Africa but I want to see where all the concern comes from.
     
  7. gi jane

    gi jane AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    73
    My Photos:
    42
    I was very fortunate for all four of my hunts. My dad booked them through an agent at one of the shows. The first hunt was so great that we just stuck with his outfit from then on. We used the same travel agent as well. Never let down
     
  8. James.Grage

    James.Grage GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,350
    Likes Received:
    412
    My Photos:
    73
    Member of:
    NRA, ATA, PITA, NAHC, NAFC, DU, TU, DSC, SCI, RMEF
    Hunted:
    USA - Canada -Tanzania, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Hi Cliffy,

    A bad hunt could be broken up into many areas.

    1. Lodging - Food
    2. Game - or lack of.
    3. Trophy Quality
    4. PH -
    5. Booking agent or Outfitter.
    6. Travel -

    enysse - the one on PH's pushing to shoot anything moving is easy. If you have went over your priority and the PH continues to guide you to animals off your list. You have options.
    You either do not shoot or you shoot to miss.
     
  9. Cliffy

    Cliffy AH Elite

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    39
    My Photos:
    7
    Hunted:
    Hunted Zim, RSA (2), Namib(2), going again, Calif, Oregon, Arizona, Texas, Virginia, Idaho, South Dakota, Montana, Nevada, MO
    True James, but I am just trying to get a handle on where guys find the outfitter/PH when they do have something go wrong, no matter what the issue was. Looking first at that direction to see if there is any correlation. I have a hypothesis but don't want to share it right now.
    I'd just like to get some first person accounts here on this thread first.
     
  10. Grady

    Grady AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    49
    My Photos:
    6
    Member of:
    SCI, NRA, IHEA
    Hunted:
    US, Germany, RSA
    Cliffy, sorry I can't help you out. My safari was a great hunt purchased at auction and an SCI event. We, my father and I, are already planning on our next one.
     
  11. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,301
    Likes Received:
    953
    My Photos:
    32
    Member of:
    Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
    Well James, it was not quite that nice and easy. When I bought the hunt everything was good, then in March a nature preserve offered the guy a ridiculous amount of money for his whole property. He sold it and moved to town, bought a new property that was just a project at best. So he lined up hunts all over the East Cape to cover his ass. Then because he was spread too thin, he hired someone to guide me and we didn't get along. I was looking for the right animal and his PH just wanted to collect his 20% of the trophy fees...he did not get a tip per se (it was more like some advice). Still James, it was no vacation half the time...it was dealing with BS. And i didn't know he had changed plans until I landed in Port Elizabeth....he also got no tip. Food was good, lodging was fine...but I don't like be lied to at all. If you hang me out to dry...believe me I get angry!
     
  12. Cliffy

    Cliffy AH Elite

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    39
    My Photos:
    7
    Hunted:
    Hunted Zim, RSA (2), Namib(2), going again, Calif, Oregon, Arizona, Texas, Virginia, Idaho, South Dakota, Montana, Nevada, MO
    " If you hang me out to dry...believe me I get angry!"
    As I would also!

    enysse- I enjoy your posts. Sometimes we think alike:) :)
     
  13. Paw Print

    Paw Print SPONSOR AH Elite

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    538
    My Photos:
    3
    Member of:
    PHASA HSC
    Hunted:
    South Africa,Zimbabwe,Mozambique
    I am going to keep an eye on this,sure there will be points off widom for all of us outfitters.
     
  14. LeopardsValleySafaris

    LeopardsValleySafaris AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    65
    Location:
    South Africa
    Member of:
    SCI , PHASA
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe
    +1 Pieter
    You can never stop improving.
     
  15. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Location:
    Pa.
    My Photos:
    63
    Hunted:
    united states canada mexico south africa
    I only have two trips under my belt and both were great.Going on two this year and spent alot time looking for who I feel is right for me so hoping all goes well.But doing my search I have talk with people who have had bad trips.The most common thing that came up was pressure to shoot animals that maybe they did not want or animals that were not the size they wanted.Going with a hunting budget sometimes means you may not be able to take even a great animal trophy size wise that may not be on your list.They felt pressure to change say from a kudu to an eland becuase the eland was so big but they went with the dream of getting a kudu.Taking the eland would have meant no kudu on that trip.Sometimes the client does not want the option or feel forced to even think of taking the other animal.I would not say that would ruin a trip for me but maybe make for alittle rough patch in the trip.But I also understand the ph/guide is trying his best and hates passing up that once an a lifetime chance as they come along.
     
  16. Bruinmaster

    Bruinmaster AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    17
    My Photos:
    7
    Member of:
    SCI,NRA,RMEF
    Hunted:
    United States, Canada, South Africa x3
    My first trip was an auction actually purchased from a booking agent. Everything fine with the trip. Had a wonderful time. No complaints until trying to get trophies handled and all hell broke loose when I found out how big of a crook my PH really was after my return home from the trip. (several threads on AH ref this matter and PH) Was able to get trophies back with the help from a friend here on AH.

    Second trip was from an outfitter here on AH (Koedoeberg) Excellent trip in every way. I certainly have learned from my first trip experience on what to look for and the proper questions to ask when planning a safari, mostly with the assistance from the fine folks who post here on AH. I see that there are many reputable outfitters right here on AH and that's where I plan on finding my future outfitters.
     
  17. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,301
    Likes Received:
    953
    My Photos:
    32
    Member of:
    Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
    I'd be fine with options, but not shooting a immature zebra or small impala. Hell I'm open to reduced price worn down impala or something like that but I don't like the pressure to shoot the first animal we see. To me that is shooting, not hunting. Having option of shooting a 30" waterbuck or HUGE eland or 55" kudu...I'll take those options every day of the week.

    I must admit most PH's hate me, they think they're talking in a language I don't understand. And they will be telling everyone this guy can judge a animal on the foot better that guys with 20+ years of experience. You can't fool him. He will shoot a very good animal or nothing.
     
  18. Royal27

    Royal27 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    3,811
    Likes Received:
    2,713
    My Photos:
    33
    Member of:
    DSC, NRA
    Hunted:
    USA - TX, CO, GA. Africa - Zimbabwe and South Africa
    This is what I want to hear - what questions didn't you ask that first time that you would now and what specifically did you learn? Can you please share? I'm planning now and want to make sure that I'm asking the right questions and not leaving it up to luck!
     
  19. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,004
    Likes Received:
    521
    My Photos:
    75
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    Canada (AB, SK, NWT, BC) USA (NM, TX) South Africa (Limpopo, KZN, Free State, Eastern Cape, Northen Cape), Kyrgyzstan, Czech Republic
    Add bad dip/pack/ship or not shipped at all and bad taxidermy to that list.
     
  20. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,004
    Likes Received:
    521
    My Photos:
    75
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    Canada (AB, SK, NWT, BC) USA (NM, TX) South Africa (Limpopo, KZN, Free State, Eastern Cape, Northen Cape), Kyrgyzstan, Czech Republic
    Shoot em all would not go over well with me either.
     

Share This Page