Soft Points & Solids in a hot .375

[Jim Golden]

Hi Everyone,

My apologies in advance if this has been discussed 10,000 times already. I did my best to search the forums and found a little bit of info....but seemed to hijack another thread so thought it best to create a new one.

So I have managed to build a variation of an A-Square Hannibal in .375 Weatherby with a long barrel and I chrono'd two 300's (I've shot several hundred out of it...but only chrono'd two) at 2885 and 2889 ft/s with a 300gr Sierra. I'm very happy with my rifle and wish to take it to Africa for a Dagga Boy. And maybe some other stuff.

At any rate, I have seen a lot of discussion on here on Soft Points vs. Solids. I hand load, and have loads for Swift A-Frame, Barnes TSX, Woodleigh Weldcore, Nosler Partition, and Sierra Gameking. I know the Sierra's aren't the greatest on game....but I've used them for target testing. I've also ordered just today some Cutting Edge Bullets Safari Solids and some of their Raptors, based upon what I've read on here.

My main question was: How many soft points do you use vs. how many solids? Like.....Do you do two Swift A-Frames or Barnes TSX and then three solids? Do you do one soft point and the rest solids?

I saw a few replies on the other fellow's thread (that I didn't mean to hijack....) and most said forget solids and just do all controlled expansion. But, some folks said do the old tried and true "First one a soft point and the rest solids."

So, I wanted to see what the consensus was.

I've been looking at 350 grain bullets, and I had my rifle throated for them. But, it really seems to slam home the 300 grainers very accurately. So, I've honestly been leaning to developing basically one/two loads around a 300gr and that's it. Use it for everything. Be it a Cape Buff, a Hippo, or a crocodile or smaller deer. I'm getting enough speed with the 300's that I don't see much need to go to a smaller bullet. Just wondering about the Solid vs. Controlled Expansion debate. I realize this may be like asking if you like Red or Blue or Ford or Chevy

Thank you,
Jim

 

[gillettehunter]

Use the TSX’s at those speeds and it’ll kill everything you want to hunt.
Bruce

 

[USMA84DAB]

You might want to read some of Kevin Robertson's works. He is quite set AGAINST 2800 ft-sec .375 rounds - they over penetrate leading to hitting another buff behind the one you're shooting at - in fact he has given an account where a Client hit 3 with one shot from a "typical American chasing way too much velocity" cartridge. Now, instead of following up one buff, the one you didn't know you wounded ambushes and kills someone in the hunting party.

Another way to research this is to read up on Nathan Foster's terminal effects field discoveries. He probably has the exact bracket of velocity at impact that each manufacturer's bullet works best at.

Basically, if you are breaking 2400'/sec., you are putting the PH & tracker at risk due to over-penetration. Exact velocity varies with bullet/cartridge/manufacturer. Apparently, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

 

[TucsonFX4]

I would avoid solids unless stepping up to elephant. That’s just my opinions based on terminal ballistic research/understanding and information from others. I have not tested your proposed questions, so I do not have real world experience with it.

 

[Scott CWO]

Good question and should be discussed with your PH. The PH may or may not hunt herds in addition to small groups of dagga boys only. Some PHs that allow hunting of herds do not want solids used due to the higher possibility of a pass through into another animal in the herd. I think I would be prepared with both options and do what each PH recommends when with him.

I’m guessing most PHs hunting dagga boys only with clients shooting a .375 would recommend a soft and the rest all solids but as I said, follow your PHs advice since situations such as terrain and thickness of the bush can vary.

Or, just take a .458 Lott with 500gr softs and don’t worry about it. Lol.

 

[Nevada Mike]

For buffalo with a 375 (of any type) I would go with the 300 grain Swift A Frame. Sure, bring along a handful of solids (maybe Barnes Banded Solids - flat nosed) if you like. Doubt you'll shoot them.

Download your hot 375 to 2400 or 2450 fps or so. Your shots will probably be at 40 to 100 yards and bullet placement is way more important than velocity. In fact, velocity may bring other problems, especially if you are shooting solids.

 

[zephyr]

CEB Raptors live for Velocity

 

[colorado]

Either A-Frames or TSX's I too have a 375 Weatherby that shoots 300g bullets at 2800 fps. Another option is the Woodleigh 350g HD SP at 2550 fps.

46BHD

HEAVY DUTY

350gr RN SN

50

.356

.323

1900-2500

1.378

coloured black for ID

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

If we're talking buffalo: A-Frames, North Fork Bonded Cores, TSX, CEB Raptors (sort of a soft).

I'm a fan of the Nosler Partition, but there are better choices for buffalo and that velocity I'd be concerned with on the Partition. The Sierra I would not entertain either.

Woodleigh certainly has a very good reputation as a whole, but they typically don't like high velocity. They would not be my choice for a 375 WBY.

As for solids, the CEBs you've ordered will do the trick just fine and then some. I'd second the advice on the soft/solid combo in checking with your PH. Anymore with bullets like the A-Frames, NFs, TSX, CEB and the deep penetration, some PHs don't want you to even bother with solids.

EDIT: Just saw the post from @colorado after I posted mine. If the Woodleigh's in 350gr can be obtained, that would be a good choice I think.

 

[TOBY458]

In my experience, the 300 gr TSX needs a little more than 2400 fps to expand to it's full potential. I've shot 5 buffalo with them and they don't open up a lot at lower velocities. I shot 3 Australian buffalo with a load running 2450 out of my 21" Sako rifle, and although they did kill very well, some of the recovered bullets didn't expand as much as I'd prefer. I'd say you would do well to push the TSX to 2550 or more. As for Swifts, I'd say 2450 would work just fine. Not much need to push them faster.

 

[colorado]

In my experience, the 300 gr TSX needs a little more than 2400 fps to expand to it's full potential. I've shot 5 buffalo with them and they don't open up a lot at lower velocities. I shot 3 Australian buffalo with a load running 2450 out of my 21" Sako rifle, and although they did kill very well, some of the recovered bullets didn't expand as much as I'd prefer. I'd say you would do well to push the TSX to 2550 or more. As for Swifts, I'd say 2450 would work just fine. Not much need to push them faster.

Agree though both bullets will stand up to the extra velocity. Nothing magical here. A 300g A-Frame or TSX will shoot at little flatter and hit a little harder at 2750 fps then they will at 2550 fps. They may penetrate a bit more but not enough to suddenly kill an animal behind it. As Toby said so well, the TSX likes a bit more velocity. I shoot 570g TSX's at 2300 fps from my 500 Jeffery. I have a very accurate load at 2510 fps but my shoulder doesn't like it much.

 

[IvW]

Load a heavier bullet and bring the speed down....it is way too high for buffalo hunting.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

With today bullets softs for everything except elephant. The exception to this solids are o.k. on some of the smaller non herd animals, but remember you will pass thru and hit?

 

[Luvthunt]

My preference 300 gr AFrame and 300 gr sledgehammers in the sequence your PH wants. 2500 fps worked (s) for me.

 

[375Fox]

I think the added velocity over a standard 375 H&H is unnecessary, but I don’t think you will get a pass through on a buffalo with a swift A Frame or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. TSX you might. The other soft bullet choices aren’t suited to the velocity. Federal High Energy safari loads have accounted for a lot of successful buffalo hunts and are 2600 ft/s. Listening to Kevin Robertson’s podcast on bullets, a lot of his reasoning for slower bullets is recoil and flinching. I do believe in energy. If you can shoot your rifle accurately and are shooting premium bullets that hold up to velocity, I think you’ll get a cleaner kill. Kevin Robertson’s books/podcast etc are great resources but it’s just his opinion. Most of our rifles are way too light based on his opinion as well. Most PHs aren’t recommending solids anymore when using premium softs.

 

[zephyr]

You WILL get "pass through" with CEB bullets which is a concern if shooting in herd situations The only Buff I have shot with a CEB bullet where I did not get a pass through was a frontal shot and base of bullet was found in the rumen... Whether shooting my Double Rifle or Bolt guns "My" first shot has always been a CEB Raptor than a Solid unless I'm chasing Ellies than of course Solids only

 

[Jim Golden]

I think the added velocity over a standard 375 H&H is unnecessary, but I don’t think you will get a pass through on a buffalo with a swift A Frame or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. TSX you might. The other soft bullet choices aren’t suited to the velocity. Federal High Energy safari loads have accounted for a lot of successful buffalo hunts and are 2600 ft/s. Listening to Kevin Robertson’s podcast on bullets, a lot of his reasoning for slower bullets is recoil and flinching. I do believe in energy. If you can shoot your rifle accurately and are shooting premium bullets that hold up to velocity, I think you’ll get a cleaner kill. Kevin Robertson’s books/podcast etc are great resources but it’s just his opinion. Most of our rifles are way too light based on his opinion as well. Most PHs aren’t recommending solids anymore when using premium softs.

Fox, I put a lot of time and effort into this rifle and am rather proud of it. I shoot it without flinching, and can normally hit a 1" square rock at 80 yards without too much trouble off a standup rest. I've not tried sticks yet, and that will be my next thing. But with the coil check stock, and the mercury recoil reducer, I can shoot the gun without flinching and actually don't do too bad at hitting the target. I'm "knocking on the door" of the .378 Weatherby with this rig and I've read a lot about those being very effective with the right bullets. I'd also read about a fellow who bought a .375 Weatherby in a MKV DGR and was absolutely thrilled with its performance on bears and african game. So, I'd rather keep the speed and use proper bullets. My rifle is a bit heavy...12 lbs. But, I try to train by going on miles long walks and carrying it. I'm not a World Cup soccer player, but I'm in half decent shape, and try to stay that way. The extra heft does help tame it down. All this being said, I do have a .375 H&H as well, with a 24" barrel. It would do well for the lower velocities. Believe it or not, it kicks much harder than my big rifle. When I ran the numbers, it generated 64 ft-lbs of free recoil (it's very light). I've done thirty rounds out of it off the bench before, but my neck hurt for three days afterward. I have no scope on that rifle, only open sights....and it weighs about 7.5 lbs loaded. On my current one, however, with the coil check stock, I've never had the scope get close to my head. Watching videos of me shooting it, I can see the distance from eye to scope never changes under recoil. Yes, the A-Square stock looks like a boat paddle...but it does work. I appreciate all you guys' advice and will look into getting some 350gr Woodleigh's.

 

[Andrew62]

Completely load your gun with Swift A-frame, Barnes TSX or Hornady DGX and go hunting!! I've taken 10 buffalo, 8 with Barnes, 1 with Hornady DGX and 1 with solids. 9 of the kills were pretty much 1 shot kills, the only problem buffalo kill I had was with solids, took 7 shots to take it. And I used solids because my luggage did not arrive and all the outfitter had was solids. From my experience, there is no way I'd ever load a solid in my gun when hunting buffalo. Heck, I was on one hunt in Zimbabwe for buffalo, the outfitter asked if I wanted to shoot a tuskless cow elephant. I loaded up my .375H&H with Barnes TSX, shot her right above the eye line, knocked her on her butt, dumped 3 more shots in her chest, she never walked one step. No, I do not recommend Barnes TSX for elephant, but a situation came up and that ammo worked great!

 

[Scott CWO]

Fox, I put a lot of time and effort into this rifle and am rather proud of it. I shoot it without flinching, and can normally hit a 1" square rock at 80 yards without too much trouble off a standup rest. I've not tried sticks yet, and that will be my next thing. But with the coil check stock, and the mercury recoil reducer, I can shoot the gun without flinching and actually don't do too bad at hitting the target. I'm "knocking on the door" of the .378 Weatherby with this rig and I've read a lot about those being very effective with the right bullets. I'd also read about a fellow who bought a .375 Weatherby in a MKV DGR and was absolutely thrilled with its performance on bears and african game. So, I'd rather keep the speed and use proper bullets. My rifle is a bit heavy...12 lbs. But, I try to train by going on miles long walks and carrying it. I'm not a World Cup soccer player, but I'm in half decent shape, and try to stay that way. The extra heft does help tame it down. All this being said, I do have a .375 H&H as well, with a 24" barrel. It would do well for the lower velocities. Believe it or not, it kicks much harder than my big rifle. When I ran the numbers, it generated 64 ft-lbs of free recoil (it's very light). I've done thirty rounds out of it off the bench before, but my neck hurt for three days afterward. I have no scope on that rifle, only open sights....and it weighs about 7.5 lbs loaded. On my current one, however, with the coil check stock, I've never had the scope get close to my head. Watching videos of me shooting it, I can see the distance from eye to scope never changes under recoil. Yes, the A-Square stock looks like a boat paddle...but it does work. I appreciate all you guys' advice and will look into getting some 350gr Woodleigh's.

@Jim Golden go ahead and keep the speed. With an A-Frame or a TSX it will create a lot of hydrostatic shock and that, a mushrooming bullet and penetration are what kills.

One of our other brown bear guides uses a .375 RUM and it’s fast and crazy effective. Let us know how your hunt goes. Good luck! Looking forward to reading about it.

 

[Nyati]

For buff, either Swift AFrame or TBBC.