Recommendations for a range revolver in .38 Special

[Trogon]

You can also get a second cylinder dedicated to or even cut for 38 for the 686

I've read about that somewhere and never even gave it a thought. I have a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in .45 Colt with a separate .45 ACP cylinder, always thinking of this with single action vs double action. Is it simpler to swap out a fitted cylinder versus a complete assembly with a new fitted yoke?

 

[Ridge Runner]

I've considered a couple options with this topic before posing my question.
I think I have a 5 gallon bucket of fired .38 Special brass. I've considered selling or scrapping but honestly would like to utilize it as I have plenty of small pistol primers. I previously owned a Ruger Security 6 and Blackhawk, just didn't like how they fit in my hand. I really like the S&W 686 but would like a lighter revolver (not a fully lugged barrel).
I have considered a Taurus revolver, there seems to be plenty of varying opinions on those.

Understandably on the fit of the Rugers. But for me and my hands, few factory grips are tolerable. A set of bigger after market or custom set of grips helps. I make my own customize grips.

NOTE: And NO! I plan on staying retired, or at a minimum, and very locally any ways, a semi retired gunsmith! With NO SUCH INTENTIONS of coming out of retirement! Damn, retooling cost a bigger fortune now a days.

As for Taurus, they are the "obsolete", reproduction S&W revolvers. The S&W 686 is nothing more, nothing less than the S&W Model 19 with a different profile and made of Lighter alloy. Personally, IMPO, I would choose the Model 19 over the Model 686.

IMHPO, Buy a Taurus, reload your brass, cull your brass when needed, and have fun knowing WSHTF you have a reliable firearm and plenty of ammo to protect yourself and your family.

OR

As for your bucket full of brass, and I have a lot, a whole lot, of odd ball brass that I have collected/ policed up at a local range. Almost 100% all of the brass I collected is once fired.

As such, with availability and brass costs today, deprime the brass, run it through a tumbler, bag it in 50 and 100 count bags, take it to a gun show and sell it for twice the price per pound that the scrape yard will pay.

I cannot swear under oath in a court of law, BUT, My understanding as to the sale of S&W parents to Taurus and Charter Arms, the stipulation is that Taurus and Charter Arms have to produce firearms to S&W standards.

The only reason that Taurus and Charter Arms firearms are less expensive than S&W, they are not highly polished. Meaning Taurus and Charter Arms firearms parts have severe amounts of micro burrs on all or at least most of the parts and the rifling/ barrels might not meet S&W guidelines for quality. IMPO, S&W relies more on their name than their QC to sell firearms.

Speaking on personal experiences: Have a Taurus or Charter Arms "polished" they will be of equal or better quality than an S&W at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost. Providing you keep your reloads within factory ammo specs. Do not use "hot loads" in these firearms, as they are not meant for consistent use in firing "hot loads " / max loads.

 

[Saul]

Needing to polish up the burrs is also a good excuse to get in your dry fire practice.

 

[Challer]

Takes a couple minutes

 

[skydiver386]

Have you considered a model 10?

If it's something that family members will shoot often, the smaller grip might be a good idea.

In any case, a good revolver just isn't really mine until I've found a nice set of cocobolo grips for it.

 

[dchamp]

I have two King Cobras, 3”&4.25” and a Ruger GP100 Match. All shoot well and have really good triggers. But they’re not .38 Spl. only.

I think your best bet is to order a S&W Model 10. It is a .38 Spl in a K frame.

 

[Trogon]

I have two King Cobras, 3”&4.25” and a Ruger GP100 Match. All shoot well and have really good triggers. But they’re not .38 Spl. only.

I think your best bet is to order a S&W Model 10. It is a .38 Spl in a K frame.

Considering the Model 10. You could call me fairly stupid for passing on a very nice one 10 years ago (would like that opportunity back) that was nearly pristine.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Needing to polish up the burrs is also a good excuse to get in your dry fire practice.

Dry firing helps, BUT....

Being able to dry fire Taurus and Charter Arms (and Ruger) firearms without worrying about damaging them is a major benefit vs S&W and especially Colt firearms. I say especially Colt because where my gunsmith shop was located I had to replace (~5 to 3.4 maybe) more damaged Colt than S&W firing pins due to dry firing on empty cylinders.

However, there is no real substitute for having an experienced, factory qualified gunsmith to polish any firearm. When I say polish, I mean a thorough polishing of all parts.; a real PITA. The better gunsmiths will do it and they do it for multiple reasons, improved accuracy, improved overall functions, etc.! And Yes, (even back then) for a few, it was for the money; Long digression.

 

[Trogon]

Understandably on the fit of the Rugers. But for me and my hands, few factory grips are tolerable. A set of bigger after market or custom set of grips helps. I make my own customize grips.

NOTE: And NO! I plan on staying retired, or at a minimum, and very locally any ways, a semi retired gunsmith! With NO SUCH INTENTIONS of coming out of retirement! Damn, retooling cost a bigger fortune now a days.

As for Taurus, they are the "obsolete", reproduction S&W revolvers. The S&W 686 is nothing more, nothing less than the S&W Model 19 with a different profile and made of Lighter alloy. Personally, IMPO, I would choose the Model 19 over the Model 686.

IMHPO, Buy a Taurus, reload your brass, cull your brass when needed, and have fun knowing WSHTF you have a reliable firearm and plenty of ammo to protect yourself and your family.

OR

As for your bucket full of brass, and I have a lot, a whole lot, of odd ball brass that I have collected/ policed up at a local range. Almost 100% all of the brass I collected is once fired.

As such, with availability and brass costs today, deprime the brass, run it through a tumbler, bag it in 50 and 100 count bags, take it to a gun show and sell it for twice the price per pound that the scrape yard will pay.

I cannot swear under oath in a court of law, BUT, My understanding as to the sale of S&W parents to Taurus and Charter Arms, the stipulation is that Taurus and Charter Arms have to produce firearms to S&W standards.

The only reason that Taurus and Charter Arms firearms are less expensive than S&W, they are not highly polished. Meaning Taurus and Charter Arms firearms parts have severe amounts of micro burrs on all or at least most of the parts and the rifling/ barrels might not meet S&W guidelines for quality. IMPO, S&W relies more on their name than their QC to sell firearms.

Speaking on personal experiences: Have a Taurus or Charter Arms "polished" they will be of equal or better quality than an S&W at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost. Providing you keep your reloads within factory ammo specs. Do not use "hot loads" in these firearms, as they are not meant for consistent use in firing "hot loads " / max loads.

@Ridge Runner I appreciate your comments and experiences on the Taurus revolvers. I haven't had the opportunity to try a Charter Arms.

 

[dchamp]

Considering the Model 10. You could call me fairly stupid for passing on a very nice one 10 years ago (would like that opportunity back) that was nearly pristin

e.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The S&W 686 is nothing more, nothing less than the S&W Model 19 with a different profile and made of Lighter alloy.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the 686 was the L frame and 19 is the K frame. If I recall the 19 and 66 had trouble with forcing cones cracking after extensive use of 357 magnum ammo.
This lead Smith and Wesson to develop the heavier L frame to handle a steady diet of full power ammunition.
The French had the same trouble with the M19 and developed the MR73.
Smith builds a 5 shot 44 magnum on the L frame so it must be heavier.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I've read about that somewhere and never even gave it a thought. I have a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in .45 Colt with a separate .45 ACP cylinder, always thinking of this with single action vs double action. Is it simpler to swap out a fitted cylinder versus a complete assembly with a new fitted yoke?

....NO.....WTF...OHN!

"Stop Right There...." as the song(?) goes....

Single Actions and Double Actions; when swapping out cylinders, cylinder assemblies are way beyond 2 different animals; not apples to oranges! Actually more like cabbage to coconuts.

Let The Factory Do It!!....

Yes it is very simple. Either way SA or DA. It basically is a "one screw change" (I do expect to catch flack, but please here me out.)

Conversations cylinders started with converting 22 lr to 22 mag. And then " Factory: Why the Hell not" 45 Colt / 45 ACP, 38/357 and 9mm, etc.

As a retired and unwilling semi retired gunsmith. Especially under warranty!

So...Yes...It's a "1 screw" "conversion", normally.

 

[Trogon]

....NO.....WTF...OHN!

"Stop Right There...." as the song(?) goes....

Single Actions and Double Actions; when swapping out cylinders, cylinder assemblies are way beyond 2 different animals; not apples to oranges! Actually more like cabbage to coconuts.

Let The Factory Do It!!....

Yes it is very simple. Either way SA or DA. It basically is a "one screw change" (I do expect to catch flack, but please here me out.)

Conversations cylinders started with converting 22 lr to 22 mag. And then " Factory: Why the Hell not" 45 Colt / 45 ACP, 38/357 and 9mm, etc.

As a retired and unwilling semi retired gunsmith. Especially under warranty!

So...Yes...It's a "1 screw" "conversion", normally.

This would definitely involve a factory job for fitting, not by myself.

 

[Ridge Runner]

@Ridge Runner I appreciate your comments and experiences on the Taurus revolvers. I haven't had the opportunity to try a Charter Arms.

If you compare the overall similar appearance and functionality of a Taurus and Charter Arms to S&W they are identical!!

Between Taurus and Charter Arms,...I would choice the Taurus 55 - 45 over Charter Arms, But....That's just IMPO. I like both and prefer both over S&W.

Then again S&W Really F**ked Up when they discontinued the Model 19. IMOPO the Mod 19 is twice the gun of the Mod 686. I prefer a solid gun over an alloy piece of crap!! at half times former and respectively 3 to 4 times the current market value.

As for Charter Arms, I would go with a Taurus. But I just love the Pre "Tracker" designated firearms. Before Charter Arms came gave thier firearms the "Tracker" name the firearms were/are a much better firearm IMPO. After Charter Arms gave the firearm the "Tracker " name they became a distinct 3 rate firearm, IMPO&E! having to accept a Tracker over the original reproduction version S&W Model 66, aka Model 19 in 357. And the 22 mag again IMPO, was the best in a 3+ inch barrel "pack" / hiking "gun".

For the quality and My Purpose...Hell Yeah!...I'll take a Taurus or a Charter Arms for the price of a S&W any day. And spend the remainder on ammo or in my case reloading supplies.

 

[Ridge Runner]

This would definitely involve a factory job for fitting, not by myself.

They both, whether a single action or a double action, require a factory fitting job; Cylinder timing and alignment, etc.. I know and would/did send customers firearms back to the factory for work when a customer wanted a conversion cylinder.

Plain and simple It would be stupid not to! Whether your the best of the best gunsmith or "Joe Shmo". If nothing else but for the very least liability reasons.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Considering the Model 10. You could call me fairly stupid for passing on a very nice one 10 years ago (would like that opportunity back) that was nearly pristine.

I had model 10, model 13 or 14, a Colt Cobra or Python, any way; Why just have a firearm designated for 38 special when one can have a .357 and shoot 38 spl and .357?

All honesty I should have kept the Colt. Because another gunsmith we had a working relationship long story, but we would periodically send/give each other work he preferred working on certain handguns and I preferred certain long guns. I'd like to think we made gunsmithing more interesting than just a job for each other before hie untimely passing.

Any way, I had him look at my Colt. A week later he presented me my Colt. It was smooth as silk, and the functionality was unbelievable with a trigger that fitted me/ my style of shooting, about 1.5 to 1.75 pound trigger for competition shooting. He surprised me by "ball bearing" the revolver; SWEET! is an understatement to understatement. I can honestly say if that firearm had been a .357 mag I would still own it now. I absolutely, kicking myself in the ass, down graded that revolver to a S&W 4 inch Model 19 .357 mag. then upgraded to a LLAMA .45 ACP for bowling pin and combat competition shooting.

Yeah....the 38 special and the true 38 Colt (?) are a part of "nostalgia" history much like the true Derringer in .41 cal rim fire. However for me personally these calibers are more for gazing at than owning.

Keep in mind a .357/38 spl has a much better resale potential than just a 38 spl.

 

[Finprof]

Smith and Wesson Model 15 Combat Masterpiece. It is the target version of the model 10.
Adjustable sights, target trigger and target hammer. Mine has the best trigger on any revolver that I ever shot. It is used for US Revolver Assn competition.
It was originally for Police Positive competition. Back in the 60s there were action pistol competitions for police revolvers.

 

[One Day...]

I currently have an early model 686 S&W .357 Magnum 6" ,and would like to have another revolver for shooting just .38 Special cartridges. More so a range revolver for mild shooting practice. The 686 I'd like to keep to .357 Mag cartridges to not have to scrub carbon rings out of the cylinder. I have a good supply of .38 Special cases, primers and lead bullets for reloading. I'm interested in thoughts/opinions on some good revolver choices that members here like. I appreciate hearing from you. Thanks in advance!
I'm thinking along the lines of a K-frame S&W revolver, 6" barrel. Something to share with family when shooting without noticeable recoil.

A little 'out of the box thinking' but have you considered a pistol ?

If what you want is to burn .38 at the range, a quality .38 Special Wadcutter pistol is also an incredibly rewarding option.

Mine is a Caspian 1911, but the S&W 52 is an outstanding pistol, and you occasionally find truly incredible deals on them. For example, there is this one right now on Gun Broker.

And for 1911 lovers:

No one can predict were the bidding will go, but if they go at their current bid, these are steals...

Just saying...

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Does anyone know anything about the 38 AMU. It looks a lot like a 38 special but with a smaller rim. Probably to be used in auto pistol. I have several pieces of brass for one but don’t know what they’re for.

 

[One Day...]

Does anyone know anything about the 38 AMU. It looks a lot like a 38 special but with a smaller rim. Probably to be used in auto pistol. I have several pieces of brass for one but don’t know what they’re for.

All I know about AMU is that Colt produced in the 1960's .38 AMU pistols for the Army Marksmanship Unit. About 100 pistols were produced. The .38 AMU has a semi-rimmed cartridge case.

Copy/paste from a certain John Moss on another site:


"There was a Forum thread c. December 2016 on this cartridge entitled “Colt Model 1911 pistols and the .38 cartridge.” I don’t know how to provide a direct link to it.

That was 3 years ago, so it probably won’t hurt to go over it again.

The .38 AMU cartridge was designed by the Army Marksmanship Unit at Fort Benning, Georgia, the date of the development generally being given as 1960. Wikipedia, last time I looked, gave a date of 1964 for it, but that is incorrect, as an article appeared in the August 1963 issue of “The American Rifleman,” Pages 42-43, and the opening line of the article refers to the beginning of the development as "Several years ago,…, making the 1960 date completely feasible.

The first cartridges were likely made by Remington-UMC, using .38 cases with the head (rim) altered prior to the plating of the cases. These are headstamp REM-UMC 38, with the “38” being off-center, since a “38 SPL” bunter, with “SPL” removed, was used. For serial production, a new bunter was made, “REM-UMC 38 AMU” headstamp. Remington rounds, with the exception of a black-case dummy, are usually in nickeled-brass cases, although at least one lot was made with plain, unplated brass.

The .38 AMU was made by three companies, Remington-UMC, Federal, and Western, with the latter calling the cartridge, for whatever reason, the .38 Special Super-Match Mid-Range semi-Rimmed cartridge. You were very perceptive about the rim configuration. The .38 AMU is a semi-rimmed cartridge, not truly rimless.

The headstamps & variations I have are:

FEDERAL 38 AMU - plain brass case.
REM-UMC 38 - nickeled-brass case
REM-UMC 38 - Backened case, one hole in the center of the primer cup
REM-UMC 38 AMU - nickeled brass case
REM-UMC 38 AMU - brass case
REM-UMC 38 AMU - Proof load, full RN Lead bullet which would have required direct insertion into the barrel, as it is too long for the magazines of the .38 AMU Colt pistols
WESTERN 38 SPL SR - plain-brass case, red primer seal

There is also a REM-UMC 38 with a cast-lead wadcutter bullet seated slight out beyond the case mouth, and with the base colored green. I actually have a full box of those. They may just be reloads, but I put one in my collection since the case shows no signs of every being fired. These could be simply someone’s reloads, or perhaps a “first effort” by Remington. I personally believe it is the former, but kept it anyway, just in case.

All of the others, except for the proof load, have a button-nose lead wadcutter bullet seated with the bullet flush with the case mouth. All have nickel primer cups and all have two cannelures on the case. The proof load has a purple base and purple bullet for ID.

Below are three different box labels for this round. I do not have a Federal box, but they are with the Monarch Brand normal art work. I have a picture of the box for the dummy rounds, and it has a wrap-around label lengthwise on the box with no art work other than the Remington and Peters trademarks, one on each side of the printing.

Here are the box labels I have:

Here is a black and white photo of the Federal box, courtesy of my dear, departed friend (RIP) and mentor Otto Witt:

John Moss"