Process You Follow Selecting Your Hunting Destination And Outfitter

[Kowas Adventure Safaris]

Dear fellow Hunter and Huntress
Kindly share with us the PROCESS you follow selecting your hunting destination and outfitter.
What aspects / factors play a major role in the decision taking process.
It would be interesting by shedding light on this subject...

 

[cpr0312]

Research, research, research. Speaking with the outfitter, numerous hunter references, hunt reports etc. Try to watch some hunt tv shows that are in the same or general area the outfitter is in to get a feel of if that's the type of terrain/hunt you will be happy with. To be taken into account are: size(s) of property, total number of species available, what species you are after, which of those species thrive in the area or are more prevalent based on which ones are most important to the hunter, and costs. Also options given by the outfitter for all inclusive or not, extra fees or not, rifles available in camp if not wanting to travel with one.

 

[gillettehunter]

So that is a great question that will be somewhat different for each of us especially as our levels of experience change. Brickburn researches it to death. Down to google earth of the area he is going to be hunting. VERY detailed. Maybe I'll just tell you how my 4 trips have come about.
First trip was perhaps 10 yrs ago and a friend and I decided to go and take our wives. I had a recommendation and he came up with one from somewhere. So we booked his. Complete virgins..... Farm was in Namibia and was in the 30-40,000 acre range. Overall the trip was good. Research ahead of time was almost nil. My PH had never hunted to farm were on and my rifle didn't arrive until day 3, but it all worked out. Dip/pack/import/taxidermy all went fairly smoothly . All through dumb luck I guess...
2nd trip I had gotten involved here on AH and had a place for 4 of us to go in mind. My taxidermist at the time directed me to Thorndale in the East Cape. Again I had a reasonably good trip. Some of my friends and son not so much. Some issues with cape care/dip/pack/taxidermy still has some bitter about how that worked out.....
3rd trip was May 2015. I had been here a while and had talked to KMG and others. Again my taxidermist at the time talked me into going with a PH he had hunted with the summer before. I had some thought and research, but not a lot before being swayed by him. That hunt had some good and bad. Cape care/export permits/shipping were new lows for me on a trip. I went again in Oct/Nov 2016. That one I had been here a long time and had some thoughts of who I wanted to hunt with. I actually hunted with 3 different outfits. One was a SCI auction hunt. There were some difficulties with that. Again lack of research..... The other 2 were my 2 best ever African hunts. One was this is my last Sable on quota deal and the other was a cancellation deal. Made for a great trip.
Right now I'm looking at something for 2018. So my thought process has been whether to do something totally different( maybe Uganda, Zim or Moz) or whether to try and upgrade some of my favorite trophies in Botswana, Namibia or RSA. I had hoped to bring my 2 sons, but quite frankly they are not in a position to go. Both owe too much and I'll pay about half of the cost, but not all.... So they will have to wait a few more yrs. I have been invited to join a group in RSA. Still waiting on them for dates. IF I hunt some with them I will likely make a 4-5 day swing down to the East Cape for a Vaal Rhebuck and maybe some other animals. I have many of the plains game animals and now am looking for some of the more unusual.
Your question involved research and how too. I'll likely talk to 5-7 different outfits on the Rhebuck. I'll look closely at hunt reports here and on the other network to see who to talk to. I may even ask a booking agent or two who they would suggest. I'll search this site for reports on Rhebuck. When I go I'll be reasonably sure of there being a good chance at a better than average trophy and a good experience where I don't get jacked around.
Not sure how well this answers your question. Maybe some can learn from my mistakes. Bruce

 

[mark-hunter]

For me:
1. Word of mouth, direct recommendation of a friend who knows my preferences and way of hunting.

2, In the lack of this, then:
- first touch is good web page with all info, and full price list
- it the web page is good, then next step correct email communication, which in my view means an honest answers within 24 hours after sending an email. I understand that some people in an outfit may be busy in the field but part of good organisation should include someone answering emails.
- references, Good feedbacks are welcome to confirm, but honest approach of an outfitter would be listing even the references of clients less then happy. Not all the hunts are successful, and probably not all the clients are happy. In less the 1%, probably, and it usually will be due to some personal issues, but by not hiding occasional problems gives impression of honest outfitter. Basically, we speak about first contacts, in order to make starting mutual trust.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Research, research, research. ...........

What he said.

....... Brickburn researches it to death. Down to google earth of the area he is going to be hunting. VERY detailed. .............

What Bruce said is so true.

Species availability - I want to hunt the stuff where it evolved, not where it was just shipped.
I'll have a hunting focus and if you have the species available I'll have a look.
Trophy Quality - How is the place managed. I am looking for Rowland Ward trophies when I'm in Africa.
Method of hunting - Can you bow hunt? Do you know how to bow hunt? Can I stalk?
Property size - If it even smells of put and take - by by. Self sustaining properties. Fences matter less than management, size and quality of the property. If I can shoot from one corner to the other, I am shooting, not hunting.
I have hunted small open cattle farms, wide open concessions and large fenced properties and small fenced properties. The disappointment happened on the small properties.

GPS Coordinates: Lodge, properties, etc. I have all the farm names in RSA and Namibia in my software, thus every boundary. I want to know where I am.

Google Earth is my friend. It's even better when you can "street view" the road and see what Google actually has vs a nice picture from a flattering angle.
You can't hide the school half a mile away behind the trees or the sunset from Google Earth!
I also need to know how to get there by driving myself.

Who owns the property - what's the agreement. It is the law in most places.

Competitive pricing - Is the offering (lodging/TF's/day rates/transport, etc) commensurate with the price. Apple to Apples. I have stayed in everything.
The number of websites I reviewed is beyond - As many others do, I created a spread sheet and listed everything. Including all the little details of whats included/excluded: Transfers, skinning, licenses, taxes, fees, etc., etc. If I get any sense of being "nickel and dimed" I will walk away.
Value for money.

Food - I know I will be fed. Sometimes it has been beyond expectation, most times adequate. .
I want to eat what I hunt.

Exclusivity - Having the place to myself/my party. If I wanted to compete with other hunters I can stay home for that.

Laws in the country
Licenses, Qualification, experience.
Charges, convictions.

Professional association
Are they members, have they been suspended or kicked out?

PH Outfitter background
Home, family, other Outfits they may own or have owned. Other businesses.
If there is something out there I will find it.

PH's - I have enjoyed rookies and old hands. Some intensity, with calmness and determination. A good sense of humor is always required.

Community involvement
What do they actually do in the community. Currently, historically.

Website, up to date, informative, transparent, honest.
Up to date trophy pictures. Three year old pictures are the kiss of death.
Did they steal someone else's pictures. (Mine have been misappropriated by an Outfitter.)

Communication: Email; answer every last question I send. Avoid one or overlook it at your peril. Copies of CAE's, I want the concession/property map, etc.
Being "oversold" or BS'd will terminate my interest.

How does the Outfitter handle problems?
This site provides excellent examples. The guys that hope it all goes away by ignoring it will have me ignoring them. Why would you do business with someone who demonstrates they can not manage a problem?

References: Ya I ask for them and email them. They are useful to an extent. If I get a bad feeling from a reference I pay attention. Too good always concerns me.
I have run into some "shills" in my research. Pretend Clients that are actually in cahoots. (I check references out as well, when I get serious about going to a place)

Hunt reports: Good, bad or indifferent, they provide information.

 

[sierraone]

AH reviews, comments and hunt reports were probably 80 percent of the reason I chose Pawprint Safaris on my first hunt. I talked to a few other outfitters while attending DSC each year. Face to face discussions with other AH members that have become friends during the last 3-4 years can count for a lot also since I highly value their opinions. Many things that are important to some hunters are not to me. For example, I don't dip and pack and have freight and taxidermy charges, since I don't have animals mounted, just pictures. That also means measurements for an animal are not important for me as long as the PH decides it is a mature representative of the species. This directly translates into more hunting time for me, whether it is in Africa or a U.S. hunt. And two other reasons I have chosen South Africa, are direct flights and less overall cost. I will not go into debt for a hunt, and many other things in life for that matter. When I arrive home, with the exception of the final trophy fee charges placed on a credit card the last day, which may only be a few hundred dollars, since I pay some up front, the hunt has been paid in full.

Will be hunting with Pieter and Pawprints once again in July 2018 for buffalo! After that who knows? May try something in Canada which an old guy can still manage!

 

[Red Leg]

I am just old fashioned enough not to be particularly impressed with a website. In the defense industry, I had nearly six hundred software engineers working for me, and we could "virtually" build anything. But, the best leopard man that I know in Africa rarely answers email, and hasn't had a working website in three or four years. But what he can do is find cats and get them on bait. He and his lovely bride are also terrific at caring for clients. He is filled every year because of his reputation and his representation by a couple of first class consultants. Back to that in a moment.

Like some others here, I am uninterested in hunting a Texas game ranch in Africa. That doesn't mean I refuse to hunt a fenced property, but it does mean that I insist on an environment large enough for the game to be self-sustaining and larger than their typical wild environment. I want nothing to do with a put-and-take operation (caught a Sportsman Channel program yesterday where two bubbas were "hunting" a hippo in a dammed half-acre tank in the East Cape.) Don't try to sell me that something is the same or better than a free-range environment when it isn't.

I obviously appreciate input from someone who has been to the property in question, but if it is the only place they have been on the continent, then that recommendation is of somewhat limited value.

For my first trip to Africa, I used a well-established hunting consultant - In my case, Jack Atcheson Jr. His father founded both the business and the business model. Jack's success or failure is based upon matching my budget and goals with the outfit that can best fulfill them. And because, he represents multiple destinations he is not trying to "sell" me on a particular choice. Rather he and I work through the options until I make the what I believe is the best decision. I have used him for about 60% of my bookings and all but one of my large investment African trips. In a decade, he has never failed to steer me to a great destination.

I strongly recommend a hunting consultant to new African hunters. He will have done something like the research Brickburn describes - well maybe not that OC - but will have a number of vetted options against which to apply the new client's resources and goals.

A number of colleagues push back on the use of a consultant - much the same as those who avoid travel agents. Never understood deliberately ignoring free experience - particularly with such a large investment - rather like buying into the stock market without financial advice.

 

[cls]

Exclusivity - Having the place to myself/my party. If I wanted to compete with other hunters I can stay home for that.

I like this, my wife not so much. I'm there to hunt not socialize, her on the other hand..... So if your wife is tagging along and is a non-hunter you might want to look into other activities that are offered.

 

[Nyati]

Until now I have kept it very simple.

Direct recommendation from a friend, and meeting the outfitter at the hunting fair afterwards.

 

[sierraone]

I had nearly six hundred software engineers working for me, and we could "virtually" build anything

Now that is scary!

 

[sierraone]

Until now I have kept it very simple.

Direct recommendation from a friend, and meeting the outfitter at the hunting fair afterwards.

Meeting with the outfitter face to face to talk can account for a lot of research. Fortunately I was able to meet with Pieter Erasmus in Kansas City six months before my first hunt!

 

[BRICKBURN]

............ He will have done something like the research Brickburn describes - well maybe not that OC - but will have a number of vetted options against which to apply the new client's resources and goals.
.............

Oh sure, pick on me. You hurt my feelings!

 

[BRICKBURN]

All depends on your comfort level with various methods. I agree, find what works for you and go for it.

Meeting with the outfitter face to face to talk can account for a lot of research. .......

Interestingly, a typical conversation does not offer many opportunities to witness behavioral patterns (imho). I can interact for a year or more on the internet and learn a lot about the person.

Most Outfitters don't get @Red Leg opportunity to use resources of that magnitude. They have to attend to the website themselves and if they do not, it tells me something.
Sure, there are folks who operate off the internet grid and I may miss out or I will have to use more traditional sources for research.

 

[jeff]

I like to have correspondence for sometime and see how they respond and how quickly, how well my questions are answered, what is their reputation and I still like to talk to others who have hunted with them. Sometimes on short notice hunts that is not possible and you just have to trust your gut feeling! I also like to meet face to face if possible to discuss the hunt. But there are paces that I wouldn't hesitate to book with just on their reputation alone.

 

[gillettehunter]

If you have any real qualms or just want to know for sure then "hire" Brickburn. If he can't find it then no body can.
Bruce

 

[firehuntfish]

Informative and useful commentary provided by all who replied for the most part. The only thought I would add would be that in the vetting process, it is important to remember that the goals and expectations for selecting an outfitter will vary from one hunting client to another. Experienced safari clients will generally have some different goals for the type of experience that they are seeking in a return safari compared to a first-timer. Conversely, first-time safari clients may actually enjoy some of the aspects that an experienced safari hunter will avoid. Exclusivity is a prime example of this... While some clients may not want to share camp with others, my wife and I regard the evenings spent around the camp fire with a sundowner in hand provided us with some of our best safari memories. We feel that socializing with the other guests and PHs at the fire or the dinner table is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the total safari experience. For us, the camaraderie and the culture is just as important as fantastic hunting in the overall experience. We've made many new friends over the years that we would have never met if we were in camp by ourselves.

In regard to references, there has been a lot said on this forum in particular as to the actual value of contacting references. The most common argument against contacting references that I have seen is the notion that they are of limited value because an outfitter is only going to provide references from select guests who are guaranteed to only provide glowing praise. This is true to an limited extent, but there is much more hidden value in a reference than simply contacting them to ask only obvious, open-ended questions. If you ask the right questions, references will often help you eliminate outfitters just as much as aid in selecting them.

I strongly encourage all of my prospective hunting guests to contact as many references as possible from all of the outfits they are considering. I tell them to assume it will be a given that the individuals they reference will collectively state that they had a great time.... What is of key importance, and what they need to ask specifically of the reference is if the experience they actually had matched their goals and expectations that sold them in the first place.

An additional reason of equal value in contacting references is the opportunity to ask very specific questions regarding any aspect of the safari. For example, if trophy quality & property size are high priorities on your list, you can ask these individuals very pointed questions in that regard. Furthermore, contacting as many references as possible will give you many different views from all kinds of clientele including couples, families, rifle hunters, bow hunters, DG hunters, etc,. The more varied perspectives you can get the better... Each type of client will have something unique to add.

Bottom line, if you contact a reference and your inquiry begins and ends with an obvious question such as, "Did you have a good time?", then you are really missing out on the true value of using references as research tools in the vetting process.

 

[Tim Blackwell]

1. Work out which animals I'd like to hunt
2. This determines the country I'd be hunting in - a country that has the target species, preferably endemic, self-populating in a low-fenced area where possible.
3. Then research, research, research! Websites and forums like this are great places to do this. References are secondary but I have contacted them in the past.

At this stage of the process I'm looking for an outfitter with good, prompt communication, and full details and answers to my questions....not short replies that leave me with even more questions!
Preferably an outfit who owns their own land or at least has long-term sole access to it.
Overwhelmingly positive online feedback, and when problems arise how they are dealt with.
Overall, the outfit/PH must be one that feels like it 'fits' with my personal hunting ethos and methods. This is more of a gut feel than anything I reckon but so far it's worked pretty well!

Cheers
Tim

 

[BRICKBURN]

............. We feel that socializing with the other guests and PHs at the fire or the dinner table is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the total safari experience. For us, the camaraderie and the culture is just as important as fantastic hunting in the overall experience. We've made many new friends over the years that we would have never met if we were in camp by ourselves. ..........

Dan, you also have a different role than most hunters, as an "agent" and are likely acting as a host role when you are in a Limcroma camp. So, that will likely moderate your willingness to have other folks sharing the camp with you. No issue, just makes your experience different. Perhaps, you are just an Extrovert.

It is true, there are plenty of folks who enjoy visiting with fellow hunter in camp. You need to know yourself and clarify that before you book a hunt.
I have enjoyed visiting with new folks on those occasions where it happens, although it is not my personal goal when I book a hunting trip.

I also don't drink as much as some, by personal choice. So, it never even hits my radar to ask about alcohol. Some guys show up to party and will be making certain there is enough alcohol in camp to sate their drinking desires. To each there own.

You make some excellent points about asking pointed questions to references. Figure out what is important to you and seek the information. It's just one more method of gathering information to base your decision on.

 

[AZDAVE]

I do a good bit of research. Plus sit down and determine what we are looking to hunt and map that to the countries that can fill the interest. I also laid out the min size contiguous property size we were interested in (45,000 acres or larger). Determine the budget. Look at non-hunting activities. (Next years safari we are taking 10 first timers with us)

Before going to SCI or DSC look at who will be there and kinda lay out a plan to visit the booths that are in the country/countries I am interested in. Then my wife and I and my buddy and his wife spend the first day separately walking the isles and just talking to outfitters that we have planned on stopping by and those that catch our eye. (Both our wifes hunt and are interested in who treats them as a hunter vs just the lady coming along with her husband that might shoot something) At dinner that night we talk about who and what we were impressed with and see which outfitter brochures we all have in common (It takes two days at SCI) then the next day we go back to those in common outfitters as a couple and ask more detailed questions compare our wish lists etc. at lunch we all get together and compare impressions and make sure we are getting the same offer/treatment from the outfitters. At dinner that night we look at notes and reduce the number of outfitters down to 10. The 3rd day we all 4 go as a group and get quotes and ask even more detailed questions. at the end of the day we reduce the number to 3-4 and try and talk to any references that are at the show. day 4 the ladies go shopping and we go look at all the guns, and gear. We head home and do internet searches or good and bad reviews. Look here on AH, call or email the references we haven't spoke with. About a week later we all do a conference call and compare what we learned. We email or text (If the outfitter is still in the states) the top 3 outfitters and see how prompt a response we get back. We then give a couple weeks and follow up with each other and send a email to the outfitter when they returned to home looking for a response in a week or so. Then we do a last and final call to make a decision on who to hunt with. We then confirm the booking, pay a deposit and start working the travel, contact the taxidermist and importer so everyone is on the same page. Then comes to what rifles do we take drill, and sort through the gear, etc

The final decision on who to book with is sometime a gut feeling of who would we like to sit around the fire with based on the human connection developed, impressions on the outfitters organization.

 

[sierraone]

I do a good bit of research. Plus sit down and determine what we are looking to hunt and map that to the countries that can fill the interest. I also laid out the min size contiguous property size we were interested in (45,000 acres or larger). Determine the budget. Look at non-hunting activities. (Next years safari we are taking 10 first timers with us)

Before going to SCI or DSC look at who will be there and kinda lay out a plan to visit the booths that are in the country/countries I am interested in. Then my wife and I and my buddy and his wife spend the first day separately walking the isles and just talking to outfitters that we have planned on stopping by and those that catch our eye. (Both our wifes hunt and are interested in who treats them as a hunter vs just the lady coming along with her husband that might shoot something) At dinner that night we talk about who and what we were impressed with and see which outfitter brochures we all have in common (It takes two days at SCI) then the next day we go back to those in common outfitters as a couple and ask more detailed questions compare our wish lists etc. at lunch we all get together and compare impressions and make sure we are getting the same offer/treatment from the outfitters. At dinner that night we look at notes and reduce the number of outfitters down to 10. The 3rd day we all 4 go as a group and get quotes and ask even more detailed questions. at the end of the day we reduce the number to 3-4 and try and talk to any references that are at the show. day 4 the ladies go shopping and we go look at all the guns, and gear. We head home and do internet searches or good and bad reviews. Look here on AH, call or email the references we haven't spoke with. About a week later we all do a conference call and compare what we learned. We email or text (If the outfitter is still in the states) the top 3 outfitters and see how prompt a response we get back. We then give a couple weeks and follow up with each other and send a email to the outfitter when they returned to home looking for a response in a week or so. Then we do a last and final call to make a decision on who to hunt with. We then confirm the booking, pay a deposit and start working the travel, contact the taxidermist and importer so everyone is on the same page. Then comes to what rifles do we take drill, and sort through the gear, etc

The final decision on who to book with is sometime a gut feeling of who would we like to sit around the fire with based on the human connection developed, impressions on the outfitters organization.

So much detail! Bet you can't say all of that again!!!