505 Gibbs

[CTDolan]

For some reason or another (most likely due its to sheer size, and thoughtful design), the 505 Gibbs has found a place in my heart. Those of you who have experience with the cartridge, loading and/or hunting, what's your take? Thank you.

 

[matt85]

love it!

its a real pig of a cartridge but man can you wring some power out of it! in its basic loading you've got a 525gr bullet at 2300fps or a 600gr bullet at 2100fps. but those are just VERY low pressure factory loads, this cartridge truly becomes a monster in the hands of a knowledgeable hand loader. a hand loader can easily load a 570/600 grain bullet to 2300/2250 fps while maintaining low pressures. the heaviest load ive seen yet was a 600gr bullet at 2500fps and according to the developer it still wasn't showing pressure signs. assuming your using the right powders, the recoil will probably beat you to death before you actually reach the power limit of the 505 Gibbs cartridge.

even if you decide to keep power limits within standard levels this cartridge is a hammer on game and has been proven time and time again over the last century. im sure @ActionBob will come along shortly to tell you about his experience taking his last cape buffalo with the 505 Gibbs.

ill be working on 505 Gibbs loads over the next couple of months so if your looking for data feel free to keep in touch.

-matt

 

[CTDolan]

In other words...squeeze trigger, eat meat!!!

Love the cartridge! Would definitely appreciate some data/guidance. Will keep in touch.

Thank you!

 

[CAustin]

I would think the shoulder pain from this monster to be real BIG!

 

[ActionBob]

I would think the shoulder pain from this monster to be real BIG!

Not necessarily. It actually gets me in the back! LOL I have the two guns in it, a CZ that was on the shelf, used, at one of the bigger gun shops and called out to me. This was right after I got reading @matt85 postings of this cartridge. Heck I did not even know it existed! The gun was the best looking CZ I've ever seen and had all the CZ Custom shop upgrades except jeweled bolt. So made a deal and bought it and at that time Corbon had ammo on sale for only $5/round so took what I could get (not enough).

I have taken this gun hunting and did shoot my second buffalo with it. The first was with my M70 416 rem mag and took 6 shots before he was done. The first going just behind the shoulder and getting a reaction like a mosquito bite!

Seriously, nothing wrong with a 416 for anything walking the Earth. But I wanted to hunt with the 505!

The buffalo I took with it was in a herd and a real old boy all smoothed off and caked in mud. The herd was moving off and when he finally cleared enough for a shot, he was quartering away looking over his left shoulder back towards us. You should avoid a left side quartering away shot on a ruminant because that is where the barrel sized rumen sits and is typically full of a bullet stopping matt of forages and rumen fluid!

Having the 505 loaded with Corbon DPX bullets, which are TSX's.. I took the shot and the bullet traveled through about 8-10 inches of rumen and make a huge channel well up into the front of the chest cavity. By the time we made our way over to him he was laying up against a tree giving his death bellow... My wife was with and hates any death sounds, and is was a buffalo! So I put another through the chest, and then a 3rd one because it looked like he moved and it was time for lunch, but he was dead and it was just his head flopping down, and my blood was up and there was the third cartridge in the gun anyway! Perfect mushrooms, I'll re-post the picture of 6.5 mm, the 375 H&H Trophy Bonded Bear Claw out of my lion, and the 505 from the buffalo. That wound channel was massive and had a couple feet of green slime carried through the chest. The first shot killed him.

Now, I have a customized Ruger RSM that started life as a 416 Rigby and was converted into a 505 Gibbs.. after all it would be a terrible sin to convert any Rigby into anything less! Well that think does kick like a mule! But it does not have a scope on it and as it was re-bored, it is lighter than the gun in a Rigby or Lott.

The CZ in a 505 (or 500 Jeffrey) comes standard with a mercury tube recoil reducer in the stock. And it has a big stock that fills your hands and a nice check piece I can get my head down onto firmly, even with the Trijicon 1-4x24 30mm scope I have on it. It is really a nice gun to shoot! It got my attention first time I shot it without a scope but not all that much more so than my M70 416 (which is a light gun).

I took seriously the detailed instruction from @matt85 on how to shoot these big bores and it works for me. No cheek or shoulder slap and never any bruises. Like I said earlier, it makes my back ache. It rocks my whole body and I have 3 smashed vertebrae so that acts up after a few shots. When I shot that buffalo there was zero felt recoil... In fact a few days later when I shot a lion with my M70 375, there was not even a report from the gun

Below is the 505 Gibbs on both sides, with 223, 30-06, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, and 458 Lott in between. The TSX on the right is the same as the one used on the buff. A solid on the left.

 

[Velo Dog]

For some reason or another (most likely due its to sheer size, and thoughtful design), the 505 Gibbs has found a place in my heart. Those of you who have experience with the cartridge, loading and/or hunting, what's your take? Thank you.

HI CTDolan,

Dr. Kevin "Doctari" Robertson is a confirmed .505 Gibbs man.
He writes much about his experiences in shooting many elephants and buffaloes with this cartridge, from his Dumoulin Mauser / express sights, etc. in at least two of his excellent books.
Actually they are "must read" books for anyone interested in African DG (or PG hunting as well).

These are:
"The Perfect Shot" and "Africa's Most Dangerous".
Also, he writes in this forum sporadically, under the screen name of:
"Doctari505".
Perhaps a PM to him here on the AH forum might yield some great .505 information ?

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Hank2211]

I love the caliber. Just can't shoot it!

 

[CTDolan]

Thank you all for the wonderful contributions (Velo, I am going to be looking for those books)!

 

[CTDolan]

By the way, @matt85 and @ActionBob, I'd love to hear of your shooting technique for the heavy hitters. I've got a fair bit of experience with most, up to 460 Weatherby, and generally haven't suffered too much (except with the 378 Weatherby...wicked recoil, due to light weight (8.5 lbs, without scope, a little under 9.5 lbs, with) and frequent work from the bench (300 grains at 2900 fps really deserves to be shot from the bench as it's capable of some serious reach), but as I get older (nearing 50), it'll become a bit more demanding, a bit less forgiving (got some crushed vertebrae just like you, Bob, mid-back...hoping it doesn't become too much of an issue, as time drags on).

 

[AZDAVE]

@ActionBob who did the reboring for you?

 

[ActionBob]

@AZDAVE I bought it this way... However I am told the following.....
<Your .505 began life as a .416 Rigby.
GNG bought 5 of them and sent them to Cliff LaBounty in Maple Plain Washington for re-boring/re-rifling / re-chambering to .505 Gibbs.>

I'm also told he sold his equipment and is not longer doing it.

 

[ActionBob]

@CTDolan it is best if @matt85 replies but basicly get the rifle snugged up and pulled into the "pocket" of your shoulder solidly, pulling it with your right or trigger hand, and either just supporting or even pushing away with the support hand.

And don't be afraid of it or it will hurt you. I feel the most confident if I have my cheek right down hard so my head, neck, shoulders all rock and roll with the gun together so no slap or hit. Now of course there is some.. In fact where I get hurt is the trigger guard hitting the top of my middle finger which of course is firmly wrapped behind it. My elephant PH was shooting a 500 NE Double and would wrap his fingers with black electrical tape for the same reason.

Matt suggested NOT wearing gloves as I was shooting in very cold weather and wearing light cloth gloves. Now leather or rubberized gloves that are a bit sticky work.. But I took to wrapping my fingers for practice and it helped. Fingers did not hurt on the buffalo hunt, until that night

Another thing is to have a long enough LOP, big handful of a stock and pistol grip (like CZ has), and although I like a good recoil pad, not too thick of clothing. I actually feel like I get hit harder in winter with multiple layers and a thicker coat on than with a T shirt... I do like the TAG padded shirt I'm wearing in the above picture with the buffalo. A little thickness but not too much.

Bob

 

[CTDolan]

Thank you, sir!

 

[matt85]

i have never hit my finger on the trigger guard of any rifle up to 600 NE. i figure if your hitting your finger then your rear hand must be slipping under recoil. if your hitting your finger then i recommend either making sure you have a firmer grip with your trigger hand or possibly getting better checkering on your rifles wrist. avoid gloves or anything that would get between your hand and the checkering. also, be sure to wipe the sweat off your hand before shouldering the rifle.

-matt

 

[ActionBob]

Yea broke my right hand a couple years ago and don't have the grip I used to have with it

 

[CTDolan]

The only time I've ever hit my finger on the trigger guard is while shooting one of these (475 Linebaugh from Freedom Arms...420 grains at 1350 fps in a 3 pound revolver). Two shots is enough to draw blood.

 

[Velo Dog]

Bob (ActionBob),

Day before yesterday I fired your CZ .505 Gibbs.
If I'm not mistaken it was with 525 gr Woodleigh at about 2330 fps.
Just moments before that I had fired Larry4831's Model 70 .458 Winchester that only weighed somewhere around 8 pounds, with 480 gr hand load at full pressure (whatever velocity that yielded - perhaps about 2125 fps ?)
Larry is definitely a tough guy like Matt85 when it comes to recoil.

Anywhooo, your Gibbs was almost comfortable to shoot compared to that too light .458 Model-70.
And, although I was nervous about the possibility of being punched in the eye with the scoped .505, it did not happen (Matt admonished me to get my face further back as I was about to touch one off so, I repositioned and it didn't get me).
This was my first try with the huge Gibbs cartridge and I was pleasantly surprised at how manageable 2300 fps was (I admittedly load my .500 Jeffery down a bit).
All in all, you have a very fine rifle there.

I just cannot imagine a finer combination elephant main focus plus a bit of PG hunting type of rifle, that not only is well proven on elephant but in your case, the scoped CZ should serve well on lesser species during any one rifle mixed bag Safari.
After your next elephant is drying in strips on the local village clotheslines and tree branches, you can just switch to softs and be able to take antelopes and oinkers presumably out to about 200 yds (2330 fps / scoped).

I have sent your Kynoch cartridges with Matt85 and he plans to get them to you when he returns your rifle (we resisted the urge to fire them off for you but, it was not easy to resist temptation - LOL).

Thank you for sending your .505 up here for us to try, it was a hoot.
One of these times, you shall have to join us here during one of these informal events.
Not many times will you see so many double rifles in one place as there are at these gatherings and most of them are Pre-War London and Birmingham maker museum grade pieces of Africa and India history.

Cheers,
Paul (Velo Dog).

 

[Pondoro]

Hmmm...all this .505 Gibbs talk is fueling my interest...

Me thinks this is a real elephant thumper in a bolt gun..

Come to think of it...when old farts like Velo Dog can shoot a .500 jeffery then I bloody well should be able to shoot a .505.....

 

[ActionBob]

Paul thanks for the kind words and bits of wisdom. I am thrilled you took the opportunity to shoot my gun

I did have that scope focused on some PG including one real decent kudu while hunting buff this past April, but never pulled the trigger as I did not want to blow the buffalo out of the area.

Yeas I would love to make the trip up for a shoot but do think I would feel inclined to get some hunting in on the same trip... Or at least some fishing!

I love that gun for buffalo but not so sure about it for elephant...

I could easily be talked into taking it along for opportunities that come up... However when going for some of those little ten mile long strolls through the brush and briars of Africa, up hills that feel more like mountains and through energy sapping sand where every step seems to accomplish that bit less actual traveled distance that the effort should deserve... I'll stick to a lighter gun and suffer the extra thump... Which take my words of experience, is really not noticeable when an elephant is a mere handful of yards in front of you!

I was actually thinking of taking that Ruger RSM in 505 Gibbs as it is a lot lighter (but kicks like a mule from hell!).... That is WHEN I go on another elephant hunt! (not if

I've never been so exhausted on a buffalo hunt as I was hunting elephant.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hmmm...all this .505 Gibbs talk is fueling my interest...

Me thinks this is a real elephant thumper in a bolt gun..

Come to think of it...when old farts like Velo Dog can shoot a .500 jeffery then I bloody well should be able to shoot a .505.....

Hi Pondoro,

RE: Old Fart's & Cannon Recoil,
ActionBob's CZ .505 is of proper weight and has a mercury cylinder in the stock plus, I admittedly load my Jeffery down a bit (it too weighs in properly and has the mercury cylinder / same make & model, other than slightly different yet very comparable cartridge).
Nonetheless, those truly large bore nitro rifles are not for the faint of heart, even around at least 11 pounds and loaded down slightly.
I am however living jumping proof that even a sissy can work up to their heavy recoil level, if you really put your mind to it.

Also - do not start out with a jump from the .270 or .30-06 suddenly to full power .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs, etc.
A .375 H&H is the perfect avenue toward these true "elephant guns" such as the .505 Gibbs and other very hard kickers.
It seems to me that you really do need a .505 there Pondoro because I really did need a .500 Jeffery so, what's fair is fair and you had better get one, just to be fair to yourself, heh heh.

With today's true magnum size CRF actions so widely available, there is no particular advantage to the Jeffery cartridge except that .510 diameter jacketed bullets and molds for pouring various shapes and various weight lead ones, are more common and more diversified than they are in .505 diameter (due to many original .510 to .511 caliber black powder cartridges as well as the popular .500 Nitro Flanged so common now in double rifles, being hand loaded for).
But the Gibbs diameter projectiles are becoming more diversified and more common slowly but surely, thankfully.
The .505 Gibbs is experiencing a huge upswing in popularity lately.

The Jeffery was designed to fit in a somewhat modified military surplus Model 98 Mauser action, (the rebated rim just barely fits onto a fully opened up Model 98 bolt face and the over all length of the loaded round will just fit through the action after machining it open as far as you can go without weakening it too much.
Back in the day, true magnum actions were horiibly expensive, even when you could find one - that's partly what kept the Gibbs in the less than popular category back then.

Because of its full size rim, longer neck and very low chamber pressure (compared to the .500 Jeffery and some other true large bore cartridges), and because of today's relatively affordable / plentiful CZ Magnum Actions, the Gibbs is actually somewhat superior by design.
Its only real flaw is as Matt85 pointed out, the case is actually too large for anything except the old Cordite, Axite and Rifelite bulky stick powders.

So, one must use spacer material when hand loading for it in order to avoid hang-fires (same goes for the .416 Rigby in my personal experiences with it).
And, conversely the .500 Jeffery brass is less voluminous, thereby requiring slightly less of today's powders to reach the desired ballistics.

Blah, blah, blah,
Velo Dog.