Politics

[Kevin Peacocke]

Negotiated ends to wars happen when nobody really gets what they want, but all are satisfied that they will be secure in the outcome they get.

 

[Red Leg]

I made this exact suggestion as the foreseeable result two weeks after the start of the invasion of Ukraine. Then, your answer was not to start to negotiate to that effect (or rather push Zelensky to the negotiating table) but to send more arms.

From your above response, I understand that you still do not see a possibility to push for these negotiations now, but only a year from now.

But why not? Why could this not have been possible at the start, or now, but only in one years time in your estimation? What has changed?

Because there is still insufficient leverage on the battlefield to either force or entice Putin to agree to any such conclusion to the war. There was infinitely less leverage two years ago. Over the last six-months, his faltering position was bolstered by the cut-off of US support. That will now be reevaluated.

Assuming the Russian Army will continue to fail to achieve a breakthrough, over the next six Putin will have to deal with an ever strengthening UA, the arrival of aircraft truly capable of challenging his own fighters, a new wave of refurbished Leopards and additional M2 Bradley IFVs (which seem to be the most popular and capable platform on the battlefield), along with new counter jamming technologies.

However logical a conclusion to a conflict may seem, it can only be reached once the conditions on the battlefield and in the respective capitals dictate it.

 

[Tanks]

...

However logical a conclusion to a conflict may seem, it can only be reached once the conditions on the battlefield and in the respective capitals dictate it.

Yep, Clausewitz succinctly put it when he said:
""War is simply the continuation of political intercourse with the addition of other means. "
The two parties are not quite ready for the subsequent step in politics for peace.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Red Leg said; “They are the ones who have taken what they can get while employing art of war changing new technologies to fight the full might of Russian Army to a standstill “

Livingthedream, if you watch the Ukrainian tactics. They have been very successful baiting, and luring untrained or incompetent Russian soldiers into traps.

The battlefield awareness and visibility that the Ukrainian front line leadership is showing is impressive.

They lure them in and drop the hammer. Over and over again. If NATO and the US would allow Ukraine offensive weapons with the capability To strike deeper into Russia this would end sooner. Or would be over already.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Brent I had Sierra Leone. Two more steps

 

[WAB]

I made this exact suggestion as the foreseeable result two weeks after the start of the invasion of Ukraine. Then, your answer was not to start to negotiate to that effect (or rather push Zelensky to the negotiating table) but to send more arms.

From your above response, I understand that you still do not see a possibility to push for these negotiations now, but only a year from now.

But why not? Why could this not have been possible at the start, or now, but only in one years time in your estimation? What has changed?

Russia’s need to negotiate has changed, and possibly Ukraine’s as well.

 

[BSO Dave]

You are contradicting yourself.

LOL... No contradiction whatsoever... My point could not be more concise or clear... Your application of liberal ideology is likely causing your confusion...

Most of the time different race , religion etc. won’t share the same morals and values with you. Heck even within the same religion sects morals are different.

I completely disagree... The most current and obvious example of this the erosion and decline of this country we have experienced beginning around Obama's first term when the concept of wokeism was created and victimization and racism were reintroduced into our society as excuses for failure...

If the purpose of your claim that "I want everyone to be like me" was to suggest that I want every American to share my sense of civic duty, personal & moral responsibility, and follow the rule of law, you are absolutely correct! You are obviously confusing or denying the reality that diversity only works when there is assimilation and allegiance to a common form of governance which is founded upon basic morals and principles such as a commonality of language, patriotism, and respect and adherence to the rule of common laws that we all must respect and obey...

Jews and Christians are a classic example of how two different religions can not only coexist but thrive under a Constitutional Republic when they are committed to the same basic morality, and values. It's only when those groups or individuals refuse to accept common goals and principles, while others are forced to accept ideologies different from their own, that we fail in this experiment of self-governance. This terribly flawed ideology is the currently the platform of the democratic party in America, and the destructive and divisive consequences are on full display...

But what you don’t understand is we went to same schools, share the same experiences and stood up for pledge of allegiance with future drag queens, gays, lesbians or women who had or will have abortions.
You already coexisted with them either you like it or not.
I served with gays, muslims, atheists, lesbians but it did not matter everyone bled the same and Arlington is full of them.
What binds as a country is not the morals, it’s religious freedom, individual rights, diversity and our democracy.

Nice try at baiting me by painting drag queens and gays/lesbians with the same brush... My ability to "coexist" with a gay person who works hard, pays their bills, obeys the laws, and is a good citizen in general is absolutely NOT THE SAME as a "coexisting" with a drag queen telling a 5-year-old that their gender is a personal choice, and that this ideology is completely normal... Just as a Jewish person who believes in a different God, yet is also completely capable of respecting my God, is not the same as a person of another faith claiming that their God is the only God who has instructed them to conduct genocide on any race and religion that is not their own... I realize liberal thought clouds common sense, but these are not nuanced distinctions... They are pretty oblivious to anyone capable of rational thought.

You last sentence suggests to me that you are confused... It is quite possible to derive from a different culture and still share a common morality that binds us as a country... Basic respect for others, and the sense of what is right and wrong are not a racial or religious concepts... These are human concepts... Diversified people cannot coexist without these basic shared commonalities. Examples of this have never been more clear or evident as to what we are currently witnessing with the rise of antisemitism and racism in this country and even more troubling, the tolerance for it by so many...

When our leaders and government cannot make the distinction between a group of religious fanatics who are publicly supporting racism, and terrorism, from the true concept and purpose of free speech, we have lost control as a country... This is a prime example of what occurs when a group refuses to assimilate.... It has nothing to do with freedom of religion or diversity, and only more chaos can happen from there...

 

[Red Leg]

LOL... No contradiction whatsoever... My point could not be more concise or clear... Your application of liberal ideology is likely causing your confusion...



I completely disagree... The most current and obvious example of this the erosion and decline of this country we have experienced beginning around Obama's first term when the concept of wokeism was created and victimization and racism were reintroduced into our society as excuses for failure...

If the purpose of your claim that "I want everyone to be like me" was to suggest that I want every American to share my sense of civic duty, personal & moral responsibility, and follow the rule of law, you are absolutely correct! You are obviously confusing or denying the reality that diversity only works when there is assimilation and allegiance to a common form of governance which is founded upon basic morals and principles such as a commonality of language, patriotism, and respect and adherence to the rule of common laws that we all must respect and obey...

Jews and Christians are a classic example of how two different religions can not only coexist but thrive under a Constitutional Republic when they are committed to the same basic morality, and values. It's only when those groups or individuals refuse to accept common goals and principles, while others are forced to accept ideologies different from their own, that we fail in this experiment of self-governance. This terribly flawed ideology is the currently the platform of the democratic party in America, and the destructive and divisive consequences are on full display...



Nice try at baiting me by painting drag queens and gays/lesbians with the same brush... My ability to "coexist" with a gay person who works hard, pays their bills, obeys the laws, and is a good citizen in general is absolutely NOT THE SAME as a "coexisting" with a drag queen telling A 5-year-old that their gender is a personal choice, and that this ideology is completely normal... Just as a Jewish person who believes in a different God, yet is also completely capable of respecting my God, is not the same as a person of another faith claiming that their God is the only God who has instructed them to conduct genocide on any race and religion that is not their own... I realize liberal thought clouds common sense, but these are not nuanced distinctions... They are pretty oblivious to anyone capable of rational thought.

You last sentence suggests to me that you are confused... It is quite possible to derive from a different culture and still share a common morality that binds us as a country... Basic respect for others, and the sense of what is right and wrong are not a racial or religious concepts... These are human concepts... Diversified people cannot coexist without these basic shared commonalities. Examples of this have never been more clear or evident as to what we are currently witnessing with the rise of antisemitism and racism in this country and even more troubling, the tolerance for it by so many...

When our leaders and government cannot make the distinction between a group of religious fanatics who are publicly supporting racism, and terrorism, from the true concept and purpose of free speech, we have lost control as a country... This is a prime example of what occurs when a group refuses to assimilate.... It has nothing to do with freedom of religion or diversity, and only more chaos can happen from there...

I agree whole heartedly with the belief that acceptance of a common culture is critical to the very concept of national identity. That is the very essence of assimilation. We are after all expecting assimilation into something. I think it is instructive that one of the targets of the woke left is the very concept of and even the term "assimilation." For a nation without a unifying race, religion, or ethnicity, that culture, firmly anchored to an economic and political system is particularly critical. The alternative is ever increasing Balkanization of the country.

One interesting aspect of our collective religious beliefs, at least so far as the three great monotheistic religions are concerned, is that we all actually believe in the same God. From a cultural perspective, Judaism and Islam are very similar. Even the languages, Arabic and Hebrew, are very closely related. Ethnically, both Islamic Arabs and Jews claim the same Semitic roots. Dogmatically, Christianity and Islam share many common beliefs. The terms Allah and God refer to exactly the same deity. Sadly, as the Crusades, the Holocaust, and modern radical Islam have demonstrated, we are far more comfortable reaching for our differences rather than our commonality.

Wokeism, with its focus on differences, is in many ways a new added accelerant to the embers that mark those differences. Those differences are further acerbated by what I call a new Paganism where people have chosen to worship everything from environmentalism to genderism rather than what most would understand as traditional religion. That too is dangerous because it will gradually rode the moral basis of our society.

We have a lot of work to do.

 

[BSO Dave]

I agree whole heartedly with the belief that acceptance of a common culture is critical to the very concept of national identity. That is the very essence of assimilation. We are after all expecting assimilation into something. I think it is instructive that one of the targets of the woke left is the very concept of and even the term "assimilation." For a nation without a unifying race, religion, or ethnicity, that culture, firmly anchored to an economic and political system is particularly critical. The alternative is ever increasing Balkanization of the country.

Well stated and excellent points!

 

[Brent in Az]

Brent I had Sierra Leone. Two more steps View attachment 603688View attachment 603689

It was the first 3 horse photo finish since 1947.
Mystik Dan was an 18-1 underdog, followed by Sierra Leone 3-1, with Forever Young 10-1 sandwiched between those 2 horses for 3rd.

I'm not a gambling man, but I do like watching the Triple Crown races.

 

[Tanks]

Speaking of assimilation, I ran across this. Unfortunately, so true...

 

[Doubleplay]

Just as a Jewish person who believes in a different God, yet is also completely capable of respecting my God, is not the same as a person of another faith claiming that their God is the only God who has instructed them to conduct genocide on any race and religion that is not their own... I realize liberal thought clouds common sense, but these are not nuanced distinctions... They are pretty oblivious to anyone capable of rational though

You last sentence suggests to me that you are confused... It is quite possible to derive from a different culture and still share a common morality that binds us as a country... Basic respect for others, and the sense of what is right and wrong are not a racial or religious concepts... These are human concepts...

You are pitting one religion against the other and then telling me basic sense of what's right or wrong are not religious concepts?

Yes, I'm confused and I'm glad we're leaving in a secular country and people can believe in whatever they want.

 

[rookhawk]

https://www.facebook.com/100059614204865/posts/826531666010633

 

[flatwater bill]

News Flash
You may not have heard this yet, so let me be the first to post.
This morning Joe Biden called me and asked me to stop the war in Ukraine. Find a solution that everyone was happy with (almost)
So it's done....it's over. Here's what I did. I took the $61 billion dollars and gave half of it to Putin. I also promised him that Ukraine would never join NATO and that the Donbas region could again use their language, vote, open their radio stations and that they would not be bombed. He got guaranteed use of warm water ports (two) for ever, as long as Ukraine border was sacrosanct. The West agreed to closer ties to Russia and to incorporate them into the World and stop the continuous sanction/villain model.
Zalendkyy got the other half of the money to help build Ukraine, pay off some debt, pacify some oligarchs. He got a return to original Ukraine boundaries including Crimea. He was required to allow political opposition, kick out the CIA, and work on the rampant corruption. He agreed to never join NATO but could pursue EU membership.
Now Vlad is happy, and told the Motherland that he won, we paid of him to leave, and he got his ports.
Pres Z is happy, he got his Country back. The US is happy, it is done funding the forever war. Ukraine can rebuild.
Europe has to admit that the threat of Russian invasion and reestablishment of the Soviet Union is BS. Russia has an economy EXACTLY the same size as Mexico. They couldn't even defeat Ukraine, let alone Europe. Ya, Europe WILL be invaded. It will come from North Africa and the Middle East.
No more families and boys need to die.
Oh, Ya.....and I ended the threat of imminent nuclear war.
No need the thank me. Just send a couple of free safari coupons. Maybe a deer tag. Stay safe, think for yourself.

FWB

 

[Altitude sickness]

Flatwater, Come on Man!! What about the DC shuffle. Kicking a little back upstairs to the Party for your next election.

If You’re going to get involved in politics . Do it right

 

[Scott CWO]

Speaking of assimilation, I ran across this. Unfortunately, so true...

View attachment 603704

The open border globalists in the Biden administration are following Europe’s lead. Just look at what’s occurring on the college campuses right now. Even US cities have changed dramatically in demographics in my lifetime. Globalists are trying to erase white Judeo-Christian societies.

 

[Scott CWO]

News Flash
You may not have heard this yet, so let me be the first to post.
This morning Joe Biden called me and asked me to stop the war in Ukraine. Find a solution that everyone was happy with (almost)
So it's done....it's over. Here's what I did. I took the $61 billion dollars and gave half of it to Putin. I also promised him that Ukraine would never join NATO and that the Donbas region could again use their language, vote, open their radio stations and that they would not be bombed. He got guaranteed use of warm water ports (two) for ever, as long as Ukraine border was sacrosanct. The West agreed to closer ties to Russia and to incorporate them into the World and stop the continuous sanction/villain model.
Zalendkyy got the other half of the money to help build Ukraine, pay off some debt, pacify some oligarchs. He got a return to original Ukraine boundaries including Crimea. He was required to allow political opposition, kick out the CIA, and work on the rampant corruption. He agreed to never join NATO but could pursue EU membership.
Now Vlad is happy, and told the Motherland that he won, we paid of him to leave, and he got his ports.
Pres Z is happy, he got his Country back. The US is happy, it is done funding the forever war. Ukraine can rebuild.
Europe has to admit that the threat of Russian invasion and reestablishment of the Soviet Union is BS. Russia has an economy EXACTLY the same size as Mexico. They couldn't even defeat Ukraine, let alone Europe. Ya, Europe WILL be invaded. It will come from North Africa and the Middle East.
No more families and boys need to die.
Oh, Ya.....and I ended the threat of imminent nuclear war.
No need the thank me. Just send a couple of free safari coupons. Maybe a deer tag. Stay safe, think for yourself.

FWB

You’ve drank a lot of Kool-Aid. What’s your favorite flavor? Cherry?

 

[mdwest]

There are flavors?

I always thought kool aid only came in colors..

When we were kids we were just asked red, purple, or orange (tang) ? lol…

 

[BSO Dave]

You are pitting one religion against the other and then telling me basic sense of what's right or wrong are not religious concepts?

Who's is pitting one religion against the other? And yes, morality and religion can certainly be mutually exclusive... One can absolutely be a good person and a good citizen without being religious... Neither secularism, nor divine faith are prerequisites for setting moral or cultural standards... However, sharing moral and cultural standards is absolutely essential in maintaining a Constitutional republic.

The basic sense of what is right and what is wrong may indeed be preached and practiced within many religions, but it's not an exclusively religious concept to have morals, or understand the difference between right and wrong... I'm quite certain that there are tens of thousands of Americans who are atheist, agnostic, or not regularly devout in their faith who are all quite capable of being moral human beings who can assimilate into a shared culture that adheres to basic morality... I honestly don't think this is debatable by any reasonable measure.... So which part of that confuses you?

Diversity of thought is a wonderful thing protected by the Constitution right up to the point of when that "diversity" creates anarchy, lawlessness, and an assault on the freedoms of the people. Then, it becomes terrorism and treason which are two concepts the democrats cannot seem to recognize presently...

 

[BSO Dave]

Some Ronald Reagan wisdom befitting of the times...