Major construction projects, being built with wood

[thriller]

@thriller,



The correlation is simple economics. Loggers supply the lumber mills want/ require more money for the timber they harvest. Lumber mills supply the building industry, furniture manufacturers, etc.with lumber want/ require more money for the lumber they produce. Building supply stores; ie Lowe's, Home Depot, etc., furniture companies, want/ require more money from housing contractors and the general public consumer.

Those in the supply chain needs to be able to meet expenses and make a profit to stay in business. Leaving the general public consumer to pay higher costs.



Brick, concrete and steel can be recycled and be renewable.

I'm not knocking the timber industry as I like the beauty of wood and working with wood. But at the sametime how many houses could have been built with the amount of lumber it is taking to build this one airport terminal,or these proposed high rises.




As an example according to the video construction of these maga buildings involves the use of a lot of beams using standard dimensional lumber not chips as in OSB board or laminates as in plywood.

As for reforestation after clear cutting:
I can only attest to what I have seen across North Carolina and Tennessee when, if any, reforestation is done; only pine and/or cedar saplings are replanted. No quality hardwoods are replanted. Only in one area in North Carolina did I see scrub oaks replanted.

The majority of the land is left barren to erode or recover on its own. Which usually means very few trees grow back. Mostly a variety of weed grasses, briars, kudzu, and scrub brush.

I have a masters degree in forestry with a focus in forest economics I am well aware of timber vs lumber prices and let me tell you the price of logs is way lower than it used to be compared to lumber on a board foot basis and the mills are much more efficient, the money stops at the mill and they are making a lot more these days then they used to. That is simply a fact.

As to brick and steel being renewable, recyclable and renewable are different things. I also work in commercial real estate development Bricks and Steel have their place but on a production basis if it is mined it is not renewable its extraction.

Look at the beam Dimensions in the construction 2X6 is a whole lot easier to produce cheaper and faster than a 12x12 its also available in laminate in lengths that cannot be achieved in standard lumber. Some of those beams look like they are even larger than that, not to mention standard dimensional lumber is next to impossible to find in lengths greater than 24ft. Also most beams of this type are of the laminated plywood type not 2x6 thats just whats being showcased in this video.

As to the replanting that is such a common misconception that the green movement has pushed it is sickening. On a pine rotation in the southeast a site must rest for a whole year so ips beetles don't kill the new seedlings. Since the year means over 1 full winter this can actually mean almost 2 calendar years based on the time of the harvest. In a hardwood rotation this can look different since replanting of seedlings can be an inefficient means of reproduction depending on species. for this you use what is called a coppice sprouting system leaving slightly taller stumps and letting the existing roots grow more boles. This system will speed the regrowth of the hardwood stand by up to 10 years when done correctly. Commonly people don't know what they are seeing without doing a species survey and just see "clearcut bad", but I can tell you that the deer don't see it that way. They just went from only getting food from acorns to year around browse.

"The majority of the land is left barren to erode or recover on its own. Which usually means very few trees grow back. Mostly a variety of weed grasses, briars, kudzu, and scrub brush."

As to your statement above I would encourage you to look closer at the species that were present and their most efficient means of regeneration might not be what you think it should be. I would much prefer to coppice sprout and shave 10 years off my rotation as opposed killing 40-80k worth of seedlings when the current root stock is a more efficient choice. An additional factor that makes hardwood regeneration difficult to see is that it can be up to 10 years or more before a individual hardwood sprout reaches the breakout phase and you can actually see it driving by without doing a seedling survey of the site. I have been contracted to survey over 100 hardwood stands that are "dead" so far only 2 of them have actually not had proper stocking in order to regrow successfully..... just goes to show if you don't know what your looking at you may not be seeing the whole picture.

 

[cwpayton]

Has been my experience that those who whine the most about clear cuts have no problem with buying a home or shopping at a big mall that just wiped out 100 acres of winter mule deer habitat. while not realizing as has been stated a clearcut provides a literal smorgasbord for some years for bear ,elk, deer, owls, fox ,etc. while select and thinning cuts ,at least out west leave alot of damage to trees inviting disease and prone to wind fall.

 

[WAB]

I have a masters degree in forestry with a focus in forest economics I am well aware of timber vs lumber prices and let me tell you the price of logs is way lower than it used to be compared to lumber on a board foot basis and the mills are much more efficient, the money stops at the mill and they are making a lot more these days then they used to. That is simply a fact.

As to brick and steel being renewable, recyclable and renewable are different things. I also work in commercial real estate development Bricks and Steel have their place but on a production basis if it is mined it is not renewable its extraction.

Look at the beam Dimensions in the construction 2X6 is a whole lot easier to produce cheaper and faster than a 12x12 its also available in laminate in lengths that cannot be achieved in standard lumber. Some of those beams look like they are even larger than that, not to mention standard dimensional lumber is next to impossible to find in lengths greater than 24ft. Also most beams of this type are of the laminated plywood type not 2x6 thats just whats being showcased in this video.

As to the replanting that is such a common misconception that the green movement has pushed it is sickening. On a pine rotation in the southeast a site must rest for a whole year so ips beetles don't kill the new seedlings. Since the year means over 1 full winter this can actually mean almost 2 calendar years based on the time of the harvest. In a hardwood rotation this can look different since replanting of seedlings can be an inefficient means of reproduction depending on species. for this you use what is called a coppice sprouting system leaving slightly taller stumps and letting the existing roots grow more boles. This system will speed the regrowth of the hardwood stand by up to 10 years when done correctly. Commonly people don't know what they are seeing without doing a species survey and just see "clearcut bad", but I can tell you that the deer don't see it that way. They just went from only getting food from acorns to year around browse.

"The majority of the land is left barren to erode or recover on its own. Which usually means very few trees grow back. Mostly a variety of weed grasses, briars, kudzu, and scrub brush."

As to your statement above I would encourage you to look closer at the species that were present and their most efficient means of regeneration might not be what you think it should be. I would much prefer to coppice sprout and shave 10 years off my rotation as opposed killing 40-80k worth of seedlings when the current root stock is a more efficient choice. An additional factor that makes hardwood regeneration difficult to see is that it can be up to 10 years or more before a individual hardwood sprout reaches the breakout phase and you can actually see it driving by without doing a seedling survey of the site. I have been contracted to survey over 100 hardwood stands that are "dead" so far only 2 of them have actually not had proper stocking in order to regrow successfully..... just goes to show if you don't know what your looking at you may not be seeing the whole picture.

The new mega mills have created concentration in dimensional lumber production. This has concentrated buying power and shifted profits from production to processing. However, the zone of influence of these mills may be too large, I.e. they will eat themselves out of limber before resupoly can be grown. At that point the equation will shift back to the grower. At least that’s what I’m hoping with the 40,000 longleafs I’ve planted!

 

[Hammergun]

As a retired firefighter, large structures built of small dimension lumber make me very uncomfortable. While they may have a sprinkler system in the occupied spaces to allow people to escape, they rarely are designed to protect the structure. With steel and concrete it's a contents fire, with wood it's a structure fire.

 

[WAB]

As a retired firefighter, large structures built of small dimension lumber make me very uncomfortable. While they may have a sprinkler system in the occupied spaces to allow people to escape, they rarely are designed to protect the structure. With steel and concrete it's a contents fire, with wood it's a structure fire.

Agreed. I have fought too many fires in oil refineries, but I have never had to go into a burning structure. Always seemed insane to me. Then again, the city FD’s thought we were nuts fighting oil fires and would only operate in a support function for us. I guess it’s what you’re used to.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Has been my experience that those who whine the most about clear cuts have no problem with buying a home or shopping at a big mall that just wiped out 100 acres of winter mule deer habitat. while not realizing as has been stated a clearcut provides a literal smorgasbord for some years for bear ,elk, deer, owls, fox ,etc. while select and thinning cuts ,at least out west leave alot of damage to trees inviting disease and prone to wind fall.

I was with you up until you stated that select cutting left a lot of damage to trees causing disease and windfall. That has not been our experience. As far as "out West" you can see the Pacific ocean from the ranch. Select cutting and thinning also leads to much new regrowth with.feed and shelter for wildlife.

 

[WAB]

I was with you up until you stated that select cutting left a lot of damage to trees causing disease and windfall. That has not been our experience. As far as "out West" you can see the Pacific ocean from the ranch. Select cutting and thinning also leads to much new regrowth with.feed and shelter for wildlife.

A pre commercial thin is SOP on the loblolly stands in our area. Personally I hate loblollies but the pre commercial cut does seem to help maturation.

 

[cwpayton]

I was with you up until you stated that select cutting left a lot of damage to trees causing disease and windfall. That has not been our experience. As far as "out West" you can see the Pacific ocean from the ranch. Select cutting and thinning also leads to much new regrowth with.feed and shelter for wildlife.

not that Im against that method of harvest , was just comparing them for their ascetic ' view value to the public. on steeper hillsides they can look like a war zone, Im talking about fallers and yarders, not feller bunchers or the likes. v

 

[thriller]

A pre commercial thin is SOP on the loblolly stands in our area. Personally I hate loblollies but the pre commercial cut does seem to help maturation.

commercial size is usually only about 6-8 inch diameter at 3.5 ft from ground for pulp and paper. Have to create toilet paper and fiber board somehow. When I worked the Birmingham area we were doing first thins at 12-14 years old. Not too pretty but sure boosts growth rates.