Chinese interest regarding hunting in Africa

[A. Austin]

Hello everyone, I posted a thread way back in 2019 about possibly becoming a hunter in Africa. If you read the thread, you would know that I have no experience in stalking-based hunting (ie. most of African hunts), but rather a "waiting for target" based form of hunting (ie. go in the bush, which is basically thick jungle, and wait around in an area known for small game animals, such as agoutis). Rarely do we hunt deer (I hunted deer for seven times in my entire life), and in our country hunting for everyone (so no "PH" business even for the most experienced hunters) is largely limited to a few months (September to January last time I checked). I began university beginning in 2020, and will complete my BA this year God willing. I got a few replies telling me that it's quite difficult to become a PH, as there are many locally born fellows that would obviously be more competent for the job than someone who is not from there and even worse, an inexperienced hunter. However, someone did tell me that learning Mandarin or Cantonese would be a possible asset for an otherwise inexperienced person, but I don't know if Chinese interest in Africa has evaporated due to that event which lasted for two years (and is still currently talked about by the WHO). Is there Chinese interest in big game hunting in Africa as of 2024?

To summarize my real question:

I have little skills in tracking animals (other than some basic scent-trailing and a LITTLE BIT of environment-based trailing such as observing animal dwellings in a supposed empty area due to the nature of the animals found in my country and circumstances). We've used hounds most of the time as well.

I wouldn't call myself an experienced hunter due to the point above and also because I have only hunted around 20 times in my life, again due to circumstances. Hunted 20 times in a relatively relaxed manner - there's no dangerous and true big game animals in my part of the globe!

I am 24 years old (23 years at the moment but my birthyear is the beginning of the 21st century)

I currently still cannot speak Mandarin or Cantonese, but I have the opportunity to learn it from both part-time courses (not related to my BA degree) and a friend of mine who speaks the language (Cantonese). I can still "network" with Mandarin speakers, however. I have a limited grasp of Spanish from Venezuelan friends, but I don't speak the language too fluently because I don't see them too often anymore (I'd argue that they're my cousin's friends and I socialized with them due to proximity). Do PH's speak AND write the non-native languages that they use such as the local African dialect and clients' languages like Spanish and whatnot? Or do they just speak the language? How fluent is fluent? What level of language proficiency is required for a PH?

I am aiming to enter the trade before age 31 (if it is even possible) - but I likely won't consider joining it now even if I already had the three qualities mentioned above since I intend to save some money and basically live by myself (I live in an extended family). I want to establish myself financially regardless of dreams, as I know money is important whether one moves to Africa or Europe or any other area of the world. I live frugally relatively speaking, so a PH's salary is not a problem. If by some miracle God told me that I can become a PH somehow, I still have to spend some time learning Chinese and Spanish (the two closest accessible languages that is not my mother tongue), and I can't delay my age. If I end up at least on the conversation stage of speaking these languages, would that be enough to become a PH?

Manual labour is not a problem as I've worked with a friend in construction (no pay, voluntary work). Lifting bags of cement is fine, and mixing it is also fine by me. Sore arms, but satisfied mind after the work! Farm labour is not a problem but I don't have much experience there. I did not end up choosing an agriculture based degree as well. I did help a friend plant his crops for a while, and I don't mind manure and other literal crap jobs. I prefer manual work even if my degree is suited for an office job, but I digress.

Is it still feasible for me to enter the PH business in the future? Or are the stakes too high here? Do the Chinese still have an interest in African hunting, or was that a fad? How many hunters in Africa speak Mandarin and Cantonese?

 

[Philip Glass]

Many just wanted a rhino horn and then headed back home. This is why there is now a stringent application system to hunt a rhino. I don't know of many Chinese hunters but I am sure there are some. Maybe someone like yourself, instead of becoming a PH, can become a Chinese booking agent and bring more folks to Africa! There are a billion reasons to try.

 

[A. Austin]

Thanks for responding Philip! I certainly don't mind a career either as a booking agent or PH. Regarding "wanting a rhino horn," are you saying that they weren't hunting for the sheer pleasure of it, but rather just for the rhino horn's supposed properties such as those seen in traditional Chinese "medicine?"

 

[Jason Miller]

I work all over Africa and starting March every year spend as much time in Africa as home. I have met and befriended many Chinese in Namibia, Kenya and Malawi working on large projects (highways, buildings etc) and agree with Phillip, they are not hunters for the sport or the conservation efforts, they are after "medicine" I know I am painting with a broad brush and maybe a few so like the aspect of the hunt.

Two years ago we were doing a solar project on a prison in Malawi, we had full access to the prison and had guards with us. I was working amongst the inmates not paying close attention when out of a sea of black faces a white one was making eye contact with me, it was so out of place it shocked me. I asked the guard what his story was (a Chinese young man) and he explained they were poachers (his wife was in the womans prison) Caught multiple times smuggling Pangolins, rhino horn, and other endangered animals. When I expressed my surprise he told me the prison in Lilongwe is filled with Chinese who come to Malawi on these big projects and wind up arrested for poaching and smuggling. It was actually a big problem.

Sad.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Hi @A. Austin .
There would be a degree of interest in safari hunting among Chinese nationals. A couple of years ago there was a "international Hunting Convention" held in Shanghai. However I suspect numbers are low. Basically the level of interest will depend on the state of the Chinese economy and the size of the middle-upper middle class. Also don't expect the same value system. A sport hunting culture has had time to be established.

At one of my local ranges, there is a huge amount of interest in shooting by groups of Chinese students. Much of this is largely driven by the ability to experience something which is out of reach in their home country.

In terms of learning the language. If you want to study the language because of an interest in the language then go ahead. However don't expect to become proficient at any level after doing a part time course. Its just not going to happen.

When we as westerners speak of dialects, we tend to think of regional variations in pronunciations or idioms. Not so for the Chinese. The various spoken dialects are effectively separate and mutually incomprehensible languages. The spoken dialects are tonal languages. each dialect has a different number of tones. The same order of sounds, but with different tones generally mean different words. The Chinese written system consists of characters which are ideographic, not alphabetical. Each character represents an idea. All Chinese dialects share the one written system and can communicate in writing. Also note that over the years there have been many Western systems of representing Chinese in Western alphabets. Modern China uses the Pinyin system to represent Chinese words in a western alphabet (for use when dealing with us round eyes). There are numerous other systems which can be encountered.

Cantonese is the main dialect of the Hong Kong region and of the diaspora who migrated from that region. It is just one of hundreds of regionals dialects. Mandarin is the national dialect, its is the language of government and a mandatory language for all people of China irrespective of their local dialect.

If you were to study a Chinese language, Mandarin would probably the most useful option.

 

[A. Austin]

I work all over Africa and starting March every year spend as much time in Africa as home. I have met and befriended many Chinese in Namibia, Kenya and Malawi working on large projects (highways, buildings etc) and agree with Phillip, they are not hunters for the sport or the conservation efforts, they are after "medicine" I know I am painting with a broad brush and maybe a few so like the aspect of the hunt.

Two years ago we were doing a solar project on a prison in Malawi, we had full access to the prison and had guards with us. I was working amongst the inmates not paying close attention when out of a sea of black faces a white one was making eye contact with me, it was so out of place it shocked me. I asked the guard what his story was (a Chinese young man) and he explained they were poachers (his wife was in the womans prison) Caught multiple times smuggling Pangolins, rhino horn, and other endangered animals. When I expressed my surprise he told me the prison in Lilongwe is filled with Chinese who come to Malawi on these big projects and wind up arrested for poaching and smuggling. It was actually a big problem.

Sad.

That's indeed disappointing to hear. I'd imagine most of us here (PH and client/recreational hunters) hunt for the simple enjoyment of the sport, as well as the added benefits of helping the local economy (and community!). I'd also say it's a good thing that the Malawians take their animals seriously!

 

[A. Austin]

Hi @A. Austin .
There would be a degree of interest in safari hunting among Chinese nationals. A couple of years ago there was a "international Hunting Convention" held in Shanghai. However I suspect numbers are low. Basically the level of interest will depend on the state of the Chinese economy and the size of the middle-upper middle class. Also don't expect the same value system. A sport hunting culture has had time to be established.

At one of my local ranges, there is a huge amount of interest in shooting by groups of Chinese students. Much of this is largely driven by the ability to experience something which is out of reach in their home country.

In terms of learning the language. If you want to study the language because of an interest in the language then go ahead. However don't expect to become proficient at any level after doing a part time course. Its just not going to happen.

When we as westerners speak of dialects, we tend to think of regional variations in pronunciations or idioms. Not so for the Chinese. The various spoken dialects are effectively separate and mutually incomprehensible languages. The spoken dialects are tonal languages. each dialect has a different number of tones. The same order of sounds, but with different tones generally mean different words. The Chinese written system consists of characters which are ideographic, not alphabetical. Each character represents an idea. All Chinese dialects share the one written system and can communicate in writing. Also note that over the years there have been many Western systems of representing Chinese in Western alphabets. Modern China uses the Pinyin system to represent Chinese words in a western alphabet (for use when dealing with us round eyes). There are numerous other systems which can be encountered.

Cantonese is the main dialect of the Hong Kong region and of the diaspora who migrated from that region. It is just one of hundreds of regionals dialects. Mandarin is the national dialect, its is the language of government and a mandatory language for all people of China irrespective of their local dialect.

If you were to study a Chinese language, Mandarin would probably the most useful option.

Thank you for the info! With regards to other languages spoken by PH's (eg. an English-speaking hunter speaking the local African dialect, along with Spanish and French and German for European clients), do most speak and write all of these proficiently? Or do they speak (and possibly write) these on a lower level?

 

[Finprof]

Be warned that Mandarin is extremely difficult to learn. I am fluent in French and Spanish but have a lot of difficulty in Mandarin, which I consider to be multiple times more difficult than French or Spanish. The couple of westerners I know who are fluent in Mandarin immersed themselves in it for years. One lived in Taiwan for five years while doing his dissertation at Columbia in Chinese history.

We have a large number of mainland Chinese students at my University. Most are appalled that Americans can own guns and have no interest in anything outdoors beyond hiking.
You would probably be much better off learning German or Spanish than Mandarin.

 

[ofbiro]

A. Austin, before looking for customers I suggest you pass the exams to become a PH and get acquainted with that world. In this way you will learn which language is more useful to communicate with customers as well as local people (trackers, skinners, cooks a.s.o.).
It is probable that Matabele, Swahili, Spanish and Russian are more needed than Chinese.

 

[A. Austin]

Be warned that Mandarin is extremely difficult to learn. I am fluent in French and Spanish but have a lot of difficulty in Mandarin, which I consider to be multiple times more difficult than French or Spanish. The couple of westerners I know who are fluent in Mandarin immersed themselves in it for years. One lived in Taiwan for five years while doing his dissertation at Columbia in Chinese history.

We have a large number of mainland Chinese students at my University. Most are appalled that Americans can own guns and have no interest in anything outdoors beyond hiking.
You would probably be much better off learning German or Spanish than Mandarin.

Thanks for responding. I'm aware that it takes a good bit of time (as in five years and over minimum) to become good (not fluent even!) at Mandarin, but I'd thought that Chinese interest in hunting would've increased, even if small relative to the rest of the world. I'd imagine learning German and Spanish would be beneficial as there are always clients from Europe (unless the EU changes rules because tokens).

 

[A. Austin]

A. Austin, before looking for customers I suggest you pass the exams to become a PH and get acquainted with that world. In this way you will learn which language is more useful to communicate with customers as well as local people (trackers, skinners, cooks a.s.o.).
It is probable that Matabele, Swahili, Spanish and Russian are more needed than Chinese.

Thanks for responding. I will definitely do all of those, but I'm looking at the probability of becoming a PH in the first place. I would say that I am not at all familiar with the type of hunting prevalent in Africa, and even North America. I did remember reading about someone in a similar situation (and also a responding user on my first thread back in 2019) who ended up becoming an apprentice with an outfitter, so I see myself having a very small chance to become a PH. I created this thread to see if learning Mandarin or Cantonese would've been relevant, as I'd heard that Chinese clients were on the rise, at least back in 2019.

 

[sureshot375]

There is some interest from the Chinese. I know of a Canadian guy that was booking hunts for Chinese and then acting as interpreter on the trips.

It’s probably a hard market to break into. Also, very difficult language to learn.

Clients were very different than western hunters. Usually no real hunting experience. Wanted to blast their animal and bolt for the whore houses.

Given your geographical location, have you thought about getting in the sport fishing industry??

 

[A. Austin]

There is some interest from the Chinese. I know of a Canadian guy that was booking hunts for Chinese and then acting as interpreter on the trips.

It’s probably a hard market to break into. Also, very difficult language to learn.

Clients were very different than western hunters. Usually no real hunting experience. Wanted to blast their animal and bolt for the whore houses.

Given your geographical location, have you thought about getting in the sport fishing industry??

I haven't thought about it, but it would certainly sounds a bit more viable than moving to Africa and learning the trade. I believe both would be hard to get into, even if sport fishing is closer to me. Are there any articles or threads about being involved in sport fishing here?

 

[TheGrayRider]

Informative 2018 book written by a non-hunter who traveled extensively in China and Vietnam to research the illegal trade of wildlife. She discusses your question above, at length.

A few of the interesting chapters are “Rhino Horn in the Cookie Jar”, “The CITES Circus”, & “Of Prostitutes, Poachers, and Politicians.”

Happy hunting, TheGrayRider.

 

[A. Austin]

View attachment 587785

Informative 2018 book written by a non-hunter who traveled extensively in China and Vietnam to research the illegal trade of wildlife. She discusses your question above, at length.

A few of the interesting chapters are “Rhino Horn in the Cookie Jar”, “The CITES Circus”, & “Of Prostitutes, Poachers, and Politicians.”

Happy hunting, TheGrayRider.

Thanks for the recommendation. It looks to be an interesting read.