458 Flat Nosed Solids For Elephant

[michael458]

What would you recommend for the 600 Overkill in light fast destructive explosive

Hey Kid....... good to hear of you, yeah your light bullet from CEB is 825 gr Raptors, which are wicked things....... My buddy Sam shoots a 577 NE and had Dan make some 650 Solids and 600 Raptors, which he has used on elephant, and multiple buffalo, hippo and such with incredible success...... I think if I was a .620 Kid, such as yourself, then I would get a special run done of close to the same thing. Lighten your load, you might say......... When I was doing the test work with the .620s the 825 Raptor at a mere 2201 fps was devastating to say the least..... A 600 gr Raptor or so at 2400+ would just be incredible....... match it with a 650 or so Solid and you are set to jet..........

 

[SAFARIKIDD]

That sounds like FUN! ...If I end up shooting it alot I may just do that...
Thanks and "That's a RAP"tor!

 

[Twisted]

FYI...... I have rather extensive load and pressure data on the 450 #13 Solid in 458 Winchester if you need some assistance, used and tested 20+ different Powders, so chances are I tested a suitable powder that you may have on hand.....

I noticed you come up a lot in conversations. I’m new and just bought a 458 win mag and 450 grain cutting edge solids. I have H322, 3031, 4064, 748, and others. Could you share some load data.

 

[ldmay375]

I noticed you come up a lot in conversations. I’m new and just bought a 458 win mag and 450 grain cutting edge solids. I have H322, 3031, 4064, 748, and others. Could you share some load data.

You are definitely going to make a great contact in @michael458. I am sure he will help you out, when he sees the post.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

450Gr Cutting Edge monolithic brass flat nosed Safari Solids travelling at 2200+ FPS out of a .45i8 Winchester Magnum is more than adequate for any shot on even the largest bull elephant.

The flat nosed monolithic brass solids manufactured by DZOMBO & Rhino (in South Africa) or Northfork (in Sweden) are also very good value for the money.

As were the old style flat nosed Barnes Banded Solids, but those aren't manufactured anymore.

 

[michael458]

I noticed you come up a lot in conversations. I’m new and just bought a 458 win mag and 450 grain cutting edge solids. I have H322, 3031, 4064, 748, and others. Could you share some load data.

Hi Twisted, congrats on your 458 WInchester, it is hard to beat, regardless of what the "So Called" experts might say.......... I addressed this in more detail in your PM to me. Keep in mind, a 450 CEB #13 Solid .458 will do the job required on elephant, hippo, buffalo with ease at 2150 fps, I have shot and taken all at this velocity, and up to 2300 fps in other 458s......... you can easy attain 2250 fps in a 24 inch barrel with the right powders, in my current 20 inch 458 Winchester I can get to 2250 without issue and stay under max pressures. I sent this data to you via PM........... The best powders to do this with is AA 2230, IMR 8208, X-Terminator, and probably H-4895 and V-N530. As always, proceed with caution, my powder is very likely not exactly the same as your powder, regardless of Lot#s, so start low, work up as always....... Brass and other components also have a tremendous effect.........

 

[michael458]

Damn, our last post on this thread was with "The Kid".......... shortly after this he was gone....... we never know, live every single day to the fullest guys.

 

[ACM]

This thread was an extremely interesting read! Thanks all.
@michael458 Just for clarification…
I know this thread is geared towards the 458WM that much favors the added case capacity of the 450gr (thus it being better).
My question is really regarding the 458 Lott, that does not have the case capacity/OAL predicament. All things equal regarding chamber pressure. Did you find the 450gr (at higher velocity) out-penetrated the 500gr (at its proper velocity)?
It sounds like regardless, the 450gr would handle anything asked of it, I’m just curious…
I know Tim Sundles is also of the opinion that the 450gr IS the best .458 option (even in the Lott)

 

[michael458]

I know Tim Sundles is also of the opinion that the 450gr IS the best .458 option (even in the Lott)

I don't know Tim Sundles, but I 100% Concur with that assessment of the 450s, they are so good, there is no reason at all for a 500 in .458 caliber....... and yes, I not only recommend this for 458 Lott but any other larger capacity 458 caliber........ I have a good friend that has taken his 458 Lotts to Africa for Buffalo, I load him the 450 Solids and 420 Raptors, just at some more velocity, 2400 fps with the 450 for the lott and I think the 420 Raptors are running 2450 or so, hammers the hell out of buffalo, and the 450s will go from end to end on buffalo. I used the 450 mostly in my 458 B&Ms, and have taken elephant, buffalo, hippo no issues at all, last elephant broadside heart, exited and kept on going at 2200 fps......... at 2400 fps it hits harder up front, and will dive deeper as well........ Some folks can't get over the fact that they don't require a 500 gr in .458, so I suppose that is why CEB makes one, I have told Dan it is not required, but some folks........ well............ I have never had any to even test, I just see no reason for a 500 at all.......

This would be a case that SD would indeed have effect, IF all other Factors were EQUAL, including velocity....... of course the 500 with all other Factors equal would penetrate deeper, but with added velocity of the 450, this has an effect, and makes it unequal at that point, while I cannot 100% verify this, I suspect the 450 would be close with the added velocity............ This would only count as a race and not as anything practical....... my opinion.........

Make mine a 450 #13......... and lets not leave out the North Fork 450s, if you notice the similarity to the CEB?........ Hmmm.............

 

[Twisted]

Love the stories Mike! Hope your doing well pal! "Brain matter squirting out his ears for 6 ft"...man thats Awesome!!
I got 2 land Hippos and what a hoot! At the time a mere .505 Gibbs but no issues and one Solid came out the other side and a mud/water geyser erupted as he raced for the river and slid to a stop at the edge! ...With those loads all one need is a mild lil 458 of sorts! Makes me feel a tad over gunned with my 600s! lol
I will we had some T-Rex around still! lol
What would you recommend for the 600 Overkill in light fast destructive explosive ? Check out THOR below...16" at 8.75pds w/rear peep (should have Fluted it for 8.25!) With a Big Zeiss coming it may go 10.5ish
*You and I both have an affection for light lil cannons!View attachment 548633View attachment 548636

Bro did you break that things neck or shoot it? What are they feeding you?

 

[Twisted]

Hi Twisted, congrats on your 458 WInchester, it is hard to beat, regardless of what the "So Called" experts might say.......... I addressed this in more detail in your PM to me. Keep in mind, a 450 CEB #13 Solid .458 will do the job required on elephant, hippo, buffalo with ease at 2150 fps, I have shot and taken all at this velocity, and up to 2300 fps in other 458s......... you can easy attain 2250 fps in a 24 inch barrel with the right powders, in my current 20 inch 458 Winchester I can get to 2250 without issue and stay under max pressures. I sent this data to you via PM........... The best powders to do this with is AA 2230, IMR 8208, X-Terminator, and probably H-4895 and V-N530. As always, proceed with caution, my powder is very likely not exactly the same as your powder, regardless of Lot#s, so start low, work up as always....... Brass and other components also have a tremendous effect.........

I wasn’t able to locate any of the powders you recommended locally but did get some H335 that is shown in the Barnes manual with 450 grain banded solid fn. Can I use that data or could you give me the min/max for it? I will order better powders but I wanted to shoot something in the mean time. Thank you

 

[Daisy]

Bro did you break that things neck or shoot it? What are they feeding you?

I think that poster passed away my man.

 

[Twisted]

I’m new to the forum. That guy was a beast!

 

[michael458]

I wasn’t able to locate any of the powders you recommended locally but did get some H335 that is shown in the Barnes manual with 450 grain banded solid fn. Can I use that data or could you give me the min/max for it? I will order better powders but I wanted to shoot something in the mean time. Thank you

I have never cared for H335, what little I have used in other cartridges it just seems a bit volatile to me, but lots of folks love it.......... Use same data in the Barnes book, should be fine.........

AA 2230 and X-Terminator are available at Midway......................

AA 2230, X-Terminator, V-N530 available at Graf & Sons

 

[Hunting Hitman]

So that is an interesting question. Which powder uses the least amount of grains to achieve the fastest speed? Myself I’m still shooting cutting edge 500 grain safari solids and want to get 2300 fps. My intention is to get performance with less recoil if possible.

Any suggestions from the group?

HH

 

[Twisted]

I have never cared for H335, what little I have used in other cartridges it just seems a bit volatile to me, but lots of folks love it.......... Use same data in the Barnes book, should be fine.........

AA 2230 and X-Terminator are available at Midway......................

AA 2230, X-Terminator, V-N530 available at Graf & Sons

Volatile might be an understatement. I shot one round at book minimum and made case mouth looks wavy and irregular. You sir are wise beyond your years. I’ll order some AA 2230 this morning

 

[Philip Glass]

I am considering taking my Winchester 70 458 Win Mag with 450 gr Cutting Edge solids for my tuskless ele/ Buffalo hunt next year. Do any of you have experience with this bullet and bullet weight in the 458? I will also most likely use the same rifle with 450 gr TSX on Cape Buffalo on the same hunt. Both of these bullets should yield around 2250 fps in the 458 WM. I would think this should be plenty of punch for both animals. Opinions?

The 500g Barnes worked pretty well for me on our safari.

 

[TOBY458]

The 500g Barnes worked pretty well for me on our safari.

I used 450 gr CEB Raptors and Solids last year, and they worked great as well. Looking forward to shooting a bulk elephant in 2025! Will use either a 458 or 416 with CEB solids.

 

[Philip Glass]

I used 450 gr CEB Raptors and Solids last year, and they worked great as well. Looking forward to shooting a bulk elephant in 2025! Will use either a 458 or 416 with CEB solids.

Jealous. I need to book a bull hunt.

 

[TOBY458]

Jealous. I need to book a bull hunt.

Ask Dalton if they have another bull in 2025!