New to me 6.5x54 Mauser small ring 98

[Red Leg]

Be sure and check the headspace and take a chamber cast, it could easily be a 6.5x54 Mauser as opposed to a 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schonauer, a confusing issue that few are aware of, two different calibers with the same number .I know of no other such cluster and its ruined a gun or so Im told..I have a 1903 Manlicher Shonauer I have that info from Reloader ,magazine

This rifle is actually marked 6.5x54 M. Schoenauer so I suspect it is exactly that. However, a chamber cast is never a bad idea with any classic rifle. There is no telling what some previous idiot may have done with it. I once purchased a magnificent little 7x57R drilling with all the correct markings. At the range I fired it and out came a fireformed straight wall case! Some criminal with a death wish had bored out the chamber into some wildcat 7mm considerably longer than the case of a 7x57R. The chamber had to have been left paper thin at the shoulder.

 

[93marlin]

So far it seems to be exactly what it says it is. So far! Picked up the rifle last evening. FANTASTIC fiddleback all the way up the stock! Very lightweight, under 7lbs. It appears to have been shot very little. Bright and clean chamber and bore without any signs of wear. Feeds and chambers factory(Dominion)loads with no issues.
Will test fire later today and then remove the stock and check any proof marks....

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Will test fire later today and then remove the stock and check any proof marks....

Bangity, bang.

 

[rigbymauser]

I'm not sure exactly what I've gotten myself into with this one. It was on GB and I couldn't pass it up. I've not seen a 6.5x54MS on a '98 action before.

View attachment 574642View attachment 574643View attachment 574644View attachment 574645

Its not a smallring Mauser for one thing. But its a nice rifle for sure. There were a few gunmakers that made the 6,5mm Schönauer in M98 action in that period. The proof codes can usually tell whether this rifle was a commercial or a military action to begin with. For me it is a commercial gun just by looking at it but my recognition pattern could be fooled. Many of these rifles was made to be a cheaper alternative to the Oberndorf produced Mausers. Thanks for sharing. Happy Newyear.

 

[93marlin]

Its not a smallring Mauser for one thing. But its a nice rifle for sure. There were a few gunmakers that made the 6,5mm Schönauer in M98 action in that period. The proof codes can usually tell whether this rifle was a commercial or a military action to begin with. For me it is a commercial gun just by looking at it but my recognition pattern could be fooled. Many of these rifles was made to be a cheaper alternative to the Oberndorf produced Mausers. Thanks for sharing. Happy Newyear.

You are correct, it is not a small ring as it was sold to me. Not an issue with me, but still it would have been nice to be a true small ring.

 

[93marlin]

This AM I was finally able to pull the barreled action from the stock. The forestock has been shortened couple of inches at some point in time.
I've attached photos of

all of the proofs and other markings, both under the wood and on the barrel.

 

[93marlin]

There's a couple more photos, however, for some reason they will not upload....

 

[Hunter4752001]

First, let advise you to take my view with a grain of salt. I have next to no expertise, just too much time and access to Google!

The top mark is a German proof mark from between 1939 -1945 There should be a couple of letters below it to indicate exactly what it means. I can't make them out in your picture.

The mark that looks like a heart with a pine tree is the mark for the proof house at Zella-Mellis. Again possibly 1939-1945.

Best guess, but the numbers 341 probably represent the month and year of proof which would be March 1941.


Hopefully someone with actual knowledge will chip in with a more definitive opinion. I don't have any info on whether Germania Waffenwerk made their own 98 actions, whether they built rifles on commercial Mauser actions or whether they built rifles on ex-military actions. I would suggest that in 1941 their rifles were well built rifles as distinct from hastily assembled rifles put together by starving gun makers in either the immediate post WW1 or WW2 periods.

 

[cpr0312]

Congrats on the new addition!

 

[Dewald]

Wonderful rifle. Congratulations

 

[RayAtkinson]

Be aware tthat the 6,5x54 Mauser and the 6,5 x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer are two completely different calibers. Most folks are not aware of this I might add, andget in a Jam.

I have a 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer 6.5x54 dies and brass..cute gun on par with a 250-3000, 257 Robts or there abouts. stay clear of the 6;5x54 MAUSER its somewhat of a headache. In fact they both are!!

 

[93marlin]

Be aware tthat the 6,5x54 Mauser and the 6,5 x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer are two completely different calibers. Most folks are not aware of this I might add, andget in a Jam.

I have a 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer 6.5x54 dies and brass..cute gun on par with a 250-3000, 257 Robts or there abouts. stay clear of the 6;5x54 MAUSER its somewhat of a headache. In fact they both are!!

This rifle is definitely a 6.5 MS. So far I have fired one round of Dominion ammunition. I have dies, about 100 empty brass and 200 bullets arrived a few days ago.
I'm aware of the 6.5 Mauser. A friend has one. Both rounds are cute little guys!

 

[93marlin]

This will give you more than you ever wanted to know about the various members of the Anschutz family involvement in German gunmaking, but very little with respect to Germania.

Anschütz family- Suhl & Zella Mehlis – German Hunting Guns

The little I know is that Germania Waffenwerk did not survive the war, and the modern Anschutz business was created in 1950. The Germania Waffenwerk name can be found on handguns (usually target guns), rifles and SxS shotguns. They also supplied .22 training rifles to the Wehrmacht. Some firearms were produced in house, but many were acquired from individual gunmakers in the trade.

Without seeing the proof marks, I would suspect this rifle dates from just before or just after WWI. Much later and it would almost certainly would have been built in 6.5x57 which was a much better solution for a Mauser action and gained popularity between the wars.

Their production and sales must have been pretty extensive, because they pop up at gun shows in the US fairly regularly. I have seen examples of each of the above. No doubt most were "liberated" by GIs during the war.

Sadly, because of the extensive bombing and post war looting of Suhl and Zella-Mehlis, we know very little about many of the pre-war gunmakers.

After completely taking the rifle down(while being in a blizzard for 3days)and thoroughly examining it, here's what I think this little rifle is.
I believe the barrel is from a 1903 Mannlicher Schonauer originally. Or most likely, the barrel was "liberated" during the early stages of WW2 and found its way to Germania Waffenwerk's shop and fitted to a military action.
The ramp on the front sight was trimmed to the current configuration. You can see where it used to be.
Also there is a small detent on bottom of the barrel near the muzzle, where the cap on the original forestock was affixed.
Given the probable date it was assembled, late '30's or at the latest maybe 1941, and Germania had already a relationship with the German army at that time.
This all supposition since any records are non-existent.
I'm open to any other ideas.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

This all supposition since any records are non-existent.
I'm open to any other ideas.

 

[Themauserkid]

It is indeed produced during the war, proofed in march of 41 as stated previously, so the rifle would have been completed sometime after that, likely no later than April but there’s no way to know for sure. It certainly isn’t an early gun in any way, the machining of the bolt shroud and safety wasn’t adopted until roughly 1939 at the very earliest, they are slightly simplified from prewar Mauser machining dimensions. I collect wartime commercial Mausers, they are neat to study, as they are sort of an amalgamation of military and commercial as the parts used in their construction are largely ex military, either recycled parts, or perhaps more often they are military rejections. That is the only way “new military parts” would end up in commercial assembly, it can be widely seen when you start studying them, that the makers in Z-M and Suhl, sourced these parts from the rejection piles of the local industry which was of course producing for the military at the time. Two of the biggest sources I’ve noted for these parts come from Astrawerke and Walther.

Germania built a decent amount of Mausers up it appears, I’ve had two of them myself and have seen several others. Your barrel is Krupp steel so I don’t consider the proposal on its source to be accurate personally. I’ve seen a couple of other Mausers chambered for 6.5MS but it’s certainly not a common thing. Someone probably owned a M-S rifle already and wanted to stick to the same caliber in a Mauser action, who knows.

If you could take more pictures of any markings or even the machining of the receiver under the wood line or any markings on the bolt I could possibly tell you more about them. Check under the bolt root, and perhaps on all surfaces of the bolt parts under bright light, sometimes the original military markings are nearly buffed away. The forward tang of the trigger guard internally might be marked as well. It’s a neat rifle in this chambering, should you ever decide to part with it or trade it, consider me interested. Thanks for posting it.

 

[93marlin]

Thank you for the information! When I saw the auction for this rifle, I was struck by the combination of the action and the caliber.
Your suggestion that the action was a "rejection" is certainly plausible. It is not nearly as smooth and finished as a few my own Mausers I have had over the years.
Welcome to the forum, BTW.
I will keep you in mind if I ever decide to past it along to another person!

 

[Themauserkid]

It is almost undoubtedly a wartime receiver, with all the finishing shortcomings as the war progressed they certainly go down hill, unless a lot of work was put into them to clean them up. I have a 1942 that’s really smooth and well put together, but many others are rough. Another, a Dec 1944 proofed rifle is quite gritty if you can imagine! Thanks for the welcome, and congrats on your find.

 

[RayAtkinson]

there are two 6,5x54s and they are completely different cartridges. ONe is the 6,5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer and the other is the 6,5x54 Mauser, has been a problem for years and dangerous...Adways do a chamber cast..

 

[93marlin]

there are two 6,5x54s and they are completely different cartridges. ONe is the 6,5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer and the other is the 6,5x54 Mauser, has been a problem for years and dangerous...Adways do a chamber cast..

It most definitely is a 6.5 MS. I'm going out tomorrow to do some more serious work with it at the range. The weather is going to cooperate for a change.

 

[93marlin]

Today I finally got out shooting the 6.5x54 mentioned above. Attached is one of the targets. 50yds, and the barrel mounted open sights. The grouping that strung a bit vertically are my hand loads.
The other grouping is from an OLD box of Dominion ammunition.
I'm very satisfied with this little lightweight rifle!

For some reason, I'm unable to post a photo of the target!!