What makes or breaks your decision to book a hunt

[lockingblock]

I could also list some things I see as Red Flags:

1. Lack of a website, outdated website, generic photos of the sunrise, etc.

2. Lack of hunt reports on here. There seem to be a LOT of outfitters that are on here, but have very little info posted or hunt reports. I can see it if they are new, but many are 5-10 year old accounts...how did they go that long and so few reports/reviews?

3. "Call me for pricing"...no. Post your prices. If prices are variable, that is fine...but put up some range.

4. Not listing exactly where they hunt, preferably on a map...calling it by a tribal name that can't be google searched...is great for ambiance but not useful to see where it is on google earth.

5. Total cost. Looking at you Tanzania ...I need to know what it's going to cost out the door, final price.
6. Financial oddity....I get it, moving money globally is a difficult thing. Multiple nations, currencies, it's hard. Find a clear and transparent way to get paid, send a receipt, and document via hunt contract exactly what is being agreed to...in writing.

7. Enthusiasm, or the lack of it. Positive energy is contagious and I look hard for a PH/Outfitter that wants to do business and hunt. One word responses to email...non specific answers...non explanations for details...all red flags.

8. Poor quality photos and equipment.

9. Not stating that their hunts in another country are being sub contracted out to another outfitter- This is a big one.

That's a start...there are more. This doesn't just apply to Africa. I have seen these in the US as well.

 

[Tanks]

...
3) I don’t want other hunting parties in camp. This is not typically an issue in a bush camp, but I always check.
...

It amazes me to read some reports etc. and see that there were 15 other hunters in the camp/lodge. The only times I ever had another person at camp was the day of my arrival and the night before I left. Now, I will have another person in camp on my next hunt for about a week due to an unforeseen scheduling issue with the client, but I was asked and I know his PH having hunted with him before so I did not mind. I was assured that the client does not use any rat calibers, so all is good.

 

[375Fox]

It amazes me to read some reports etc. and see that there were 15 other hunters in the camp/lodge. The only times I ever had another person at camp was the day of my arrival and the night before I left. Now, I will have another person in camp on my next hunt for about a week due to an unforeseen scheduling issue with the client, but I was asked and I know his PH having hunted with him before so I did not mind. I was assured that the client does not use any rat calibers, so all is good.

It surprises me as well, but I think if it’s your first or second safari and you chose a budget hunt it won’t seem that much different than a Colorado elk camp or Wyoming mule deer/antelope camp where you just expect to see other hunters. There are too many opportunities for a private camp and too many opportunities for other hunters ruining your trip back at camp for me to even consider this, but if you don’t know you just don’t know.

 

[lockingblock]

I get your point about gouging on fees. A grand to hunt with your own guns is hard to defend. However, I’m not as concerned with the cost components as I am with the all-in cost. From what I’ve been able to gather, MOZ Buffalo hunts are cost competitive with similar hunts in Zimbabwe, Zambia and Namibia (Caprivi.)

I like your posts on Buff hunting. I am in the middle of trying to figure out a buffalo hunt and I'm all kinds of confused. I know what I want...but it seems like it is everywhere and nowhere...IE super expensive but not really better...or lower cost...but why?

I know there is a real difference in a 10K hunt and a 20K hunt...and I get the issues with fences and so on...but it seems like pricing and date/time of year is all over the map. Kinda hard to comprehend how you get such wildly different answers from various outfitters about "come in x month and we will find more buffalo than you can count" vs the opposite from another outfitter that x month will be hard because of foliage and rainfall/water availability.

I went so far as to buy Boddington's books to figure it out. Its a work in progress.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I’m really surprised to read this. I’ve never had that happen and wouldn’t expect it to happen, usually PHs are there for you as the client. I didn’t know this was unusual but on my first two African hunts, the PHs didn’t eat dinner with you. I was there with my Dad and a family friend, and there were 2 other small groups of hunters in camp so it was still a good atmosphere, but they just dropped you off at lodge at end of day and the lodge manager was your host at dinner. I didn’t know until I went on more hunts.

@375Fox
All our PHs ate with us every night.
One PH was the property owner as well and man he cooked a wicked briar. His wife and young daughter would join us at times as well. One big happy family meal time that end the day well

 

[Tom Leoni]

Premise 1: the number of African countries you can hunt in makes this question a bit complicated. I'll answer with regards to South Africa as the most common destination especially for first-time Africa hunters.

Premise 2: you already know what your budget is in terms of both money and time.

Prior to deciding on an outfitter, I created a sortable spreadsheet for quick and easy comparison between different ones. I used a point system that enabled me to rank the totals at the end. The variables were as follows (bold letters: items weighing more on the total):

1 - Region and type of terrain. Will it feel like I'm really in Africa?
2 - Lodge/accommodation quality from pictures on their Web site.
3 - Price/quality relation in terms of number of animals and days for the dollar. Easier if one animal or more get used as a kind of "index."
3(a) - I automatically discarded any outfitter not listing their prices. I don't have the patience to wait for an answer to a "contact us for more info" message.
3(b) - Were there any packages listed, and did they include the species I wanted?
3(c) - Other pricing info like 2x1 rates or daily rates for observers/non hunters.
4 - Trip reports from previous clients. Did the hunts feel canned? Did the clients have a good time and a friendly experience with the hosts? Did they finish the report with "XYZ were fantastic people who gave me a fantastic experience and I can't wait to hunt with them again"?
5 - Items listed as excluded from the total price. E.g., dipping and packing, rides to and from the airport, adult beverages, etc.

A variable not on the spreadsheet but that weighed considerably on my decision was response time (once contacted) and friendliness. All dreams of following in the footsteps of Selous aside, a safari is the mother of all pleasure trips and you don't want to invest time and money on an outfit that doesn't convey a sense of hospitality and openness.

Any safari may last 7-10-15-30 days, but a great safari lasts a lifetime in your heart and your memories.

As I said, I assigned each variable a numeric value and had the total scores in a column on the right hand side. The outfitter I ended up choosing ranked quite a bit ahead of everyone else--and sure enough, on Saturday I'm leaving on another safari with them.

 

[thriller]

This is a questions I think we as outfitters would like to know the answer to, What makes you the client decide on which and whom to book a hunt with?

View attachment 469410

Big ticket animals I am looking for, a reasonable success rate for the animal I am looking for in that area. Area/size ( I don’t care if there is a fence as long as there are no internal fences and the property is fairly large, I just don’t like looking at the fence on a regular basis honestly). What other animals are available because if I am going to fly all that way I am going to hunt more than 1 thing. Also once this has been considered I start looking at price. Price is important but last because going more than once for a species I want is usually more expensive than paying a little more for a higher chance of getting done the first time.

 

[Red Leg]

These are good threads.

One of the smartest things that I ever did was to book my first African Hunt through Jack Atcheson & Sons (Jack Jr. in my case). Their business model and success are built around matching the client's desires, expectations, and budget with the right hunting opportunity. In hindsight, back then, not only would I have not even known the questions to ask, but I frankly couldn't have meaningfully evaluated the answers I would have been given. Another hunting consultant that I have used for Europe is Bob Kern's Hunting Consortium. They also provide the same service for Africa.

Experienced, established consultants like these take an enormous amount of the guesswork out of the choice and remove dashed expectations off the table. They will also greatly simplify the payment process for someone new to international hunting.

I personally place little stock in websites. Anyone these days can create something that looks just fabulous.

As I think @Tanks was also implying, I have, over the years developed a pretty select network of friends and professionals in the industry whose opinions I trust (well not necessarily about sundowners in some cases - I mean what sane person puts cheap brandy in a coke !?!). Those are the resources that I now vet when considering a new destination. Again, that sort of experience base can be accessed through a competent consultant.

I also do not put much stock in a recommendation, regardless of the continent, if it was that person's only experience there.

I find I also have ever less patience with the created African experience. Going off to a tent with hard wired power, ensuite facilities and double bed, has, to me at least, more the feel of a nature theme park than the Serengeti of 1930. That said, I quickly admit that these sorts of camps are perfect for first timers and families.

Finally, and this isn't really part of the question, but don't keep going back to the same outfitter. Africa, heck South Africa, is a big place. I have a friend who has now hunted with the same PH six times. He knows a great deal about 40,000 acres of the Eastern Cape, and hardly anything about hunting Africa.

 

[Jaegger]

This is a questions I think we as outfitters would like to know the answer to, What makes you the client decide on which and whom to book a hunt with?

View attachment 469410

1st: I’m a BIG fan of Eland Hunting so thx for the Great Trophy Pic!

2nd: Woooooo … good question & happy to share my personal perspective after eight/8 PG Hunts.

#1: Timely & Detailed Communication … most all of us are busy professionals, if I have to wait (a week) to get prices and/or specific hunt details that had me drawn to a particular Outfitter then huh - I’ve already moved on to Outfitter #2, #3, etc.

#2: Web Price Listings … I do not waste my time emailing any Outfitter who Is Not willing to post their Daily Rates/Trophy Fees. That’s just me.

#3: Pricing … can be very subjective & encompassing many factors. Afew takeaways …

*Daily Rates: I’m keen to competitive 2x1 rates, motivates Solo Hunters to go out & recruit a Group - I know, cuz I’m usually the Ringleader organizing groups vs. Solo Trips.

*Trophy Fees: experienced hunters know what the average rates by Country & Species, if an Outfitters rates are higher - explain why, “ … 75% of trophies score Silver Medal or better.” Consider offering a modest discount on X # of trophies taken … every $$ counts.

#4: Accommodations & Hunt Grounds: nice to have lodging options, lodge, softside tents or overnight @ neighboring property. Hectares does matter & especially when addressing high fence …

Happy Trails.

 

[MTA]

The internet age makes it easy to see reviews, good and bad. I've never been to Africa, but joined here because I was beyond ready to book. I saw @KMG Hunting Safaris had alot of reviews so I read every hunting report on here and looked outside of the forum too. All of it was positive

The prices look good, Marius and his PHs seem to be absolute professionals who live and breath hunting. They also seem to "hunt hard" which is my preference while I am still young.

But all of the good reviews boil down to this in my mind, for someone to have so much positive feedback, he must have a good amount of honor and integrity and those are the two biggest things I would look for before I spend hard earned money. I could go all the way there and shoot nothing but as long as I know that the experience was honorable and the effort genuine, it would be worth it. I feel that I will have a great first safari with them this fall and my experience will mirror others on here.

 

[Ridge Runner]

For me the following makes and breaks where and what I hunt more than when which is also a consideration:

1) trophy fees:
I instantly pass on outfitters that list various cost of horn length.

2) References--this one failed
There were many warnings on this forum about unscrupulous outfitters/PHs to avoid. I missed thtem when I tried to find the negative posts about them.

Secondly, I trusted my regular outfitter as he had hunted with the unscrupulous outfitter and had a good time and a good hunt and are friends.

NOTE 1: I'll say this I've hunted at KUBUSI Safaris, East Cape, South Africa 3 times, and I highly recommend them and will continue to hunt with them in the East Cape.

NOTE 2: I'll avoid the Zimbabwe outfitter and any outfitter he works for, or partners with, as this leopard hasn't changed his spots.

3) Overall cost
I look for a hunting package that is affordable to me, and what animals of opportunity that might present themselves unexpectedly, i.e. hunting kudu and a black back jackal appeared another instance hunting warthog and 2 unseen yellowtail mongooses were playing next to the "farm" road where my PH stopped the bakki to try to judge a warthog in the distance.

I also like hunting with KUBUSI Safaris and the PHs James has as they are reluctant to discuss or suggest tips. I had to ask several times before any of them recommended/approved my thoughts for tips for all the others involved in my hunts, the PHs left it up to me whether or not to tip them or how much.

NOTE: I tip on a per animal basis. Regardless of whether I am successful or not; It's about how hard the PH tried to get me the animal and is the animal a good representation for me to be proud to show others and recommending others to use this outfitter and this PH. Thus the tip is: zero, reduced, remains even, or increased.

4) This one is tricky, but it is what it is.
Is the animal I just killed a trophy animal or a cull. Personally, I don't hunt with a tape measure as I believe it takes away from a good hunt.

I look for an outfitter that doesn't stock his property or uses concession that stock their property with animals just to make money off of foreign hunters.

Put and shoot outfitters are definitely off my prospect list when looking for an outfitter.

Is the animal a problem animal the outfitter or concession owner wants rid of? And has luck presented with an opportunity to shoot this animal?

The outfitter or concession owner has pretty much considered this animal a cull, yet the hunter shoots it and has it mounted. Should the hunter pay full trophy fee rather than the cull price?

5) Taxidermy and Shipping

I am a fan of "one stop shopping". By this I mean When I look for an outfitter I want to know who they use for taxidermy of my animals and should I have any problems with my taxidermy how much help the outfitter will be in rectifying any problems after I'm back home.

The same goes for getting my taxidermy shipped home.

KUBUSI Safaris has in house taxidermist and these guys are really very good at their craft. I had a problem with my first safari crate being damaged. James and the Rex family helped me get the problem rectified.

6) Food and Accomodations

When traveling I look to eat foods I can't find back home. i.e. bush meat

Lodging should be relatively close to where, why, what I am booking the hunt for: whether a comfortable lodge or a bush/tent camp scenario.

There are other things I look at before I decide on an outfitter, but these are a good start to narrowing my search.

 

[Ragman]

A lot of good info here on what attracted me to my second safari. My first was to Namibia before I knew of AH. It was organized by my local taxidermist and he did all the organizing. My second was after joining AH and was to the Eastern Cape. It didn’t take long to see how one outfitter on here had nothing but praise for his operation. He’s easy to talk to and responded immediately to any messages. Something I really appreciated was his willingness to work everything out in Canadian dollars for me. If I’m lucky enough to have a third trip over it will be with him.
Deal breakers for me:
- Paying for a 10 day hunt and only hunting 8 days. Arrival and departure day included in the 10 days and you won’t get me.
- Pay by the inch.
- No price list on website.
- Any outfitter that operates like some of the gong shows that have been posted on here from YouTube.

 

[Mountaineer]

Total cost, personal connections, safety. My wife goes along to take pictures and enjoy nature. When she ask a question I expect it answered just as the PH would answer me. You wouldn’t believe the number of PH’s that get written off due to ignoring my wife or children.

 

[Dee S]

Keeping my response simple.
I'm a bowhunter and I don't make a lot of money, so these are my bullet points for determining my next PH.

In no particular order.
Important Questions:

• PH has to be a seasoned bowhunter
• Size of property we will be hunting
  • High fence, no fence?
• Bow stands
  • What type?
  • How many?
  • How big?
  • Will we be shooting from the standing or sitting position
    • Distance to expect the average shot to be from the blind?
  • Opportunities for spot and stalk
  • Are they positioned correctly for the various winds we may encounter?
  • Pictures of the stands is a bonus
• Day Rate
  • I'm already flying half way around the world, hunt for 10-14 days
    • Cheaper the day rate, the longer I'll stay
• Animal Prices
  • Just fair prices is all I ask for.
• Bucket list of animals discussed in advance with the PH
  • Quantity of those animals, more so than quality
• Number of people in camp while I am there?
  • To date, it has been me and my daughter only in camp with our PH

Not as important:

• Lodging
  • I just need a bed and a shower
• Fancy food
  • Just three meals a day that are edible
    • But we have to have Biltong in the blind. No biltong, you might as well stay at the lodge.
• Day Spa

Turn offs:

• The truck dropping off a bale of alfalfa into the hay rack everyday as the animals are standing in the road waiting for it to arrive.

 

[Hunt anything]

This is a great thread, I’ve been in 4 camps one by myself, one with a buddy and my wife and two with just me and my wife. All were great and I ( we ) got everything we hoped to get out of each.
I probably get on my outfitters nerves because I ask a lot of questions and expect answers in a timely manner. On my first safari i contacted about a dozen firms and only about half got back with me. The outfit that I ended up going with put me in touch with their agent in the states and it went from there. They knew buffalo was number one and ended up with a lot of good icing ( sable, nyala , bushbuck, Lichtenstein hartebeest and warthog) all free range and stalked fairly. Long post to say answer questions promptly and be honest!

 

[Tra3]

I hunt about 50 days a year and have been for a while. I like the experience of trying… and sometimes I get lucky!
I had a great hunt in Namibia with my father and son (age 12). We were put in touch with Jack Atcheson & sons by a client of his (and very close friend of my father). Like @Red Leg that experience of having Atcheson guide us through the first hunt planning was a tremendous value. We were given answers to many questions I hadn’t thought to ask.
Being alone in a camp is very nice, but some overlap is also interesting. A PH who asks if overlap is ok before scheduling a location/date is a big plus.

I completely agree with the importance of a PH who loves to hunt. When you think you are up early and ready to hunt and the Ph is already dressed, coffee in hand, that is a good sign.
When your Ph is ready to hunt even on an “off” day of travel, awesome. We got multiple extra 1/2 days of hunting when camp changes resulted in early enough arrival to get in an evening hunt.

flexibility. Want to change camps, ok. Change focus, ok. The flexibility in planning made it easy for me to rebook a second family safari with the same organization @Jamy Traut Hunting Safaris
Having multiple camps to visit is a big plus, more exploring, more variation in terrain.
Bringing a non-hunting spouse requires special attention to detail, and a lot of communication. We were not disappointed.
Special note: if bringing a non-hunting spouse, just say yes to the things she wants to do.

A good PH is not just selling a hunt. A good PH should be asking you a lot of questions about what you want to do, your interests, how you like to hunt, what you like to eat, etc. They are selling the whole experience, so please ask about other details.

I don’t care about horn length. I don’t have a single mount in my house. The adventure of a hunt is what I am looking for.

I followed up a wonderful africa hunt with an abysmal hunt in British Columbia. What a learning curve! I’m a marathoner and I love to walk and be right in nature. A 10 hr day truck hunt in Canada was the exact opposite of my expectations.

References: yes, call and talk to people. I like to think I’ve given honest assessments when called as a reference. The person giving a reference should also be asking about what YOU are looking for, not just telling you about the hunting.

 

[mark-hunter]

This is a questions I think we as outfitters would like to know the answer to, What makes you the client decide on which and whom to book a hunt with?

Species on offer, price if reasonable. I always check the web pages of the outfitter. I prefer to see public price list.

 

[Jaegger]

… what an enjoyable thread to read & glean from - there are sound takeaways, some unique wants/desires which is cool, mixed with reoccurring themes = important messaging. I expanded on one below.

As dedicated AH followers, hunters, & clients we can only hope some of the more common sense business suggestions produce “ … the rubber meeting the tar” because, guided hunting is a keen balance of Business & Heritage.

A re-attack on counting Day of Arrival & Departure … I fully agree, it should NOT be counted as a Full Hunting Daily Rate because it’s not.

*Example: A 7-day Hunt that includes these days Is Not 7-days of hunting but 7-nights on a calendar. Better options below …

*Option #1: Arrival & Departure counted outside of hunts days & charged @ Observer Rate, client decides arrival/departure times.

*Option #2: Arrival & Departure charged 1/2 Hunting Daily Rate & guaranteed 1/2 day Hunt on both days, Outfitter states must have AM arrival & PM departure from camp.

May also minimize the Hot Bunk - Swing Door booking mindset …

Happy Trails.

 

[Scott CWO]

Lots to consider and very hard to rank in an exact order. There are always some give and take and adjustments of the priorities involved for each trip.

1. A wild area with naturally reproducing animals. I would consider a fenced ranch if it was VERY large and not "put and take" stocked. I also don't want to see a lot of people.

2. The concession or area to be hunted and the species available as compared to my personal list. I am NOT a collector of everything. I like what I like. I love the mid to larger antelopes. I am not into the "tiny ten." While I love to hunt dangerous game and will finish the "Big Five" soon, if there's not a healthy population of quality plains game to hunt, watch or photograph, count me out.

3. Trophy quality and age are important to me. Pictures are worth a thousand words. I like to see multiple pictures of high quality trophies because this shows proper management that allows younger animals to reach their potential. I will pay more for the best areas. If the photo gallery shows multiple years of quality animals harvested, I am interested. The proof is in the pictures. A unique opportunity is also much desired, such as my hunt in Botswana last year after hunting being closed for six years. That got my attention for trophy quality.

4. People. The PH and owner must be friendly, professional, hard-working and skilled hunters. I like to hear some good stories around the campfire. I always make sure to tell them that I want to hunt hard. I am not interested in starting late and heading back towards camp before sundown during prime time. I like to socialize but the main goal is hunting. The days can be long so I have no problem with taking a nice break for lunch and even a nap at mid-day but if the PH has to be back in camp before dark to get his alcohol fix going, that's not going to work for me. I am a social drinker and like a nice drink or three at the fire as much as anyone, but in moderation. I also want a PH and Trackers with sneaky skills and not continually bumping into animals while walking too fast when the sign says to slow down. Sometimes, people get sloppy because there are so many species and animals that they just figure there are more animals around the next corner. I am used to North America where each opportunity is important. I am there to hunt, not just shoot.

5. Timing. In most of Southern Africa, I won't hunt in April, May, or after August. Too green or too much vegetation still standing in the early months and too hot for me September and onward. I am making an exception to this next year in Maswa in Tanzania in November to catch some migration but that's a special case.

6. The camp. Not as big of a deal and I don't mind sharing a camp with another hunter and another PH if the area is large. It is fun to see what they bring in. I am not competitive and enjoy the success of others. That said, I probably won't hunt from a camp with multiple other hunters in one camp. A bed, a hot shower and decent food are all I require. A fly or spike camp can get you closer to areas that are not hunted as heavily.

7. Price. You get what you pay for most of the time. I would rather skip a year to save up than hunt every year in so-so areas or in cheap, small, high fenced areas. I am not afraid of cancellation hunts with quality operators that I trust. I got my leopard and best buffalo on a cancellation hunt that I researched.

 

[SABENA1]

1st: I’m a BIG fan of Eland Hunting so thx for the Great Trophy Pic!

2nd: Woooooo … good question & happy to share my personal perspective after eight/8 PG Hunts.

#1: Timely & Detailed Communication … most all of us are busy professionals, if I have to wait (a week) to get prices and/or specific hunt details that had me drawn to a particular Outfitter then huh - I’ve already moved on to Outfitter #2, #3, etc.

#2: Web Price Listings … I do not waste my time emailing any Outfitter who Is Not willing to post their Daily Rates/Trophy Fees. That’s just me.

#3: Pricing … can be very subjective & encompassing many factors. Afew takeaways …

*Daily Rates: I’m keen to competitive 2x1 rates, motivates Solo Hunters to go out & recruit a Group - I know, cuz I’m usually the Ringleader organizing groups vs. Solo Trips.

*Trophy Fees: experienced hunters know what the average rates by Country & Species, if an Outfitters rates are higher - explain why, “ … 75% of trophies score Silver Medal or better.” Consider offering a modest discount on X # of trophies taken … every $$ counts.

#4: Accommodations & Hunt Grounds: nice to have lodging options, lodge, softside tents or overnight @ neighboring property. Hectares does matter & especially when addressing high fence …

Happy Trails.

Why do certain outfitters do not post their daily rates/trophy fees?